superangrypenguin

IMHO, this is the last S class that I truly think is a magnificent car. The W220. Just bored tonight and found this:

http://www.autotrader.ca/a/mercedes-benz/s-class/edmonton/alberta/5_29697164_20161026201233457/?showcpo=ShowCpo&orup=1_12_12&pc=L7L%207C8&sprx=-1

This is also WEIRD.

http://www.autotrader.ca/a/mercedes-benz/s-class/montr%c3%89al/quebec/19_10508564_/?showcpo=ShowCpo&orup=2_12_12&pc=L7L%207C8&sprx=-1

Now, anyone who knows anything about the 220 knows the frigging speedometer cluster was a serious issue, and thus there are multiple recalls, so I call horsesh** on the alleged miles on this car; BUT, if this is indeed that low of a mileage for a 13 year old car....hmmm....gamble with fire and buy this for fun?

Both of these cars look beautifully kept, and I like the first one (colour combo), but the second one, only 35,000km?! That said it's out of Montreal and the French are known to lie....LMFAO *flame suit on*

Adi-Benz

Nop

superangrypenguin

Eh?

superangrypenguin

Sorry guys to resurrect this. Here again I'm here spending yet another night pissed off at my car buying options. Budget is a little over $100,000 Canadian. Here is what I've learned.

1) W222 S class. Run flat tires, direct injection, and an interior that I like but I'm not madly in love with. Don't get me wrong, great car, good money for great car, but so many downsides. Oh, btw, yet another staggered 19" setup.

2) Lexus LS500. 20" rims, rough ride, RFTs, small trunk, and basically no one is buying it, so depreciation is going to suck, but more importantly, relatively loud engine at WOT. Lexus is trying to be Audi, and it sucks.

3) 2019 Audi A8. Win win on all counts, but first to deploy Continental's P0 mild hybrid system and 48V system. Lots to love, but my last Audi experience left me a bunch of money in the hole because it was a disaster. Lots of new tech in the Audi A8, but reliability scares the pants off of me. Mercedes has been terrible with new engines too. M272 was a disaster when it launched, the M276 has been better, but plastic has replaced a lot of parts, and now even MB is going to introduce MHEV and eh...

Mercedes has the worst massaging seats. Lexus has the best, Audi is in the middle.

All this to say...

F***. Buying a car should not be this frigging difficult. My 204 has been good to me, and getting rid of it has been more than difficult. Before you guys ask...

Porsche = no. Too far from where I live and the infotainment sucks.

Ditto re: BMW.

I'm after

1) Quiet ride, soft supple suspension
2) Great audio system, bar none. $6900 upgrade in the S is a must have, not an option as the standard Burmester stereo is worse than a $19 pair of headphones.
3) Massage seats.

And maybe #4, a reliable car.

It seems one cannot have it all.

This penguin is superangry. If someone would introduce double glazed windows in the 204 and an air suspension, I'll pay $10K easy to add these features to the 204. The 204 has been truly a great car, but I'm so frigging annoyed at what the f*** to do next.

Adi-Benz

CLS53 or S63 Coupe = quiet

superangrypenguin

No real advantages to these vehicles versus their sedan counterparts. Same issues though.

RFT/DI/etc...

May I be really blunt for a second? I'm fairly certain my next car will be a W222 because, well, MB makes great cars and it's the devil I know....but still...this buying experience was not like the W204 for me. I fell in LOVE with the 204, bought it, and it's been a blast.

I suspect I will never have that experience again.

Alfadude

How about a Volvo S90? They usually have outstanding seats and they have a massage option and you can get them in AWD. Their premium sound system is a B&W 1400 watt unit.

My only other option is what I think will be my next car, a Maserati Ghibli SQ4. Certainly not quiet, but the sounds you do hear are from a Ferrari built twin turbo V6 and the seats are the same leather they use in Ferraris. New are about $90K, three year old cars still under warranty can be had $35K-$40K range. From what my indy shop tells me that is run by three Italian brothers, they have been actually pretty reliable. He said they have sold about 10 of them so far this year.

superangrypenguin

I'm a bit hesitant about Maserati's but that S90 suggestion is a good one. I'll take a look into it now. Thanks!

superangrypenguin

S90 + S60 both came back as:

" But these low-profile tires generate surprisingly high road noise on some surfaces and cause the ride to feel flinty on sharp-edged bumps. The surprisingly harsh impacts also provoke some mild quivers within the chassis that are transmitted to the driver’s hands through the steering column. The structures of most cars in this class feel rock solid, while the S90’s leaves a noticeably looser impression. "

As per C&D.

[sigh]

At 90mph, they both tested at 69DB, and that's on the louder side. An A4 tests in at 64db, as does the S class.

Alfadude

You DO realize the car you want does not exist, don't you? The reason it is so hard is because manufacturers make cars for the masses and to a price point. So, that leaves you with either having to compromise or spend money to try and get it more like what you want it to be. It sounds like you are not afraid to spend a lot of money to customize something you want. Also, have you actually driven any of those cars you mentioned, or just read about them? Reading reviews can be fine, but you can talk yourself in or out of anything if you read enough of them. Paralysis by analysis.

What about a used Bentley or Rolls Royce?

What happened to your Maybach quest?

superangrypenguin

OK so I obviously have not driven the Volvo as that was just suggested. Waiting on the 2019 A8 to land but have driven the others.

While my ride is quiet now i can't get massage seats and I want an air ride..

As far as used Maybachs, yes I am looking into that but they are rare here in Canada. Rolls and Bentley are beyond my budget from a repairs perspective.

Alfadude

Wouldn't a high end sound system be enough to overcome a couple extra decibals of interior noise? Just turn the volume up a bit.

Seriously look into the Volvo. Certainly doesn't have everything on your wish list, but has massaging seats and is well less than your budget. Their ride historically has not been particularly stiff. Could spend the leftover money on customization and quieter tires.

superangrypenguin

Yup, fair points, and will definitely take a look.

I have been cranking music for a while, but please keep in mind that (IIRC) 6 DB is doubling the sound pressure, so just a few DB = a big difference. When one starts with a noisy floor base level, it's almost impossible for a nice sound system to counteract the effects. While taking to an extreme, imagine if you're listening to the Burmester 3D stereo in a S class if the noise level was that of a F430 (I'm dating myself, but you get the point).

But yes, swapping out tires is something I have to do for almost every single car I'm looking at. In the case of the Volvo, it would appear that I'd have to get rid of those 20" rims too but money can solve that problem.

Adi-Benz

+1 on the volvo

Also I wouldn't say the coupe is the same as the sedan counterpart...give it a shot and meter it. Plus, it's more of a driver's car, which you intend on doing.

Alfadude

How about a Genesis G90. Has double laminated sound proof glass and 3 layer door seals, which has to get your heart pounding. Has a high end Lexicon surround sound system. Does not offer massaging seats though. On the other hand they so boast the seat "has been approved by the back and spine specialists at Aktion Gesunder Rücke, the German campaign for healthier backs", whatever that means. Interior looks like a rolling living room.

superangrypenguin

Have already driven the 5.0T.

1) Double laminated sound proofing and hollow wheels got my attention. Unfortunately it is no louder or quieter than our 204s. (tested this religiously, same measurement ANSI approved device).
2) The seats are comfy, sure, but like you said, no massage function
3) The suspension, although not air ride is impressive!
4) The sound system blows. I don't know what reviewers are smoking, just like I don't know why anyone feels the standard Burmester stereo on the E/S class is even half decent! Au contraire, the Lexus LS500's sound system (Mark Levinson) made me tear up (I'm not kidding). I'd much rather have my Logic 7 system on the 204 versus the Lexicon or the standard Burmester audio for that matter!

The Genesis is 80% of the car, but unfortunately at 87% of the cost of a S450 (Premium package, Burmester 3D stereo, HUD, Air Balance Package). Genesis is $87,000 firm in Canada, and the MB after the discounts I'm eligible for is $101,000.

For another $14,000 would you buy a proven vehicle instead? I know I would.

Now if the G90 was 70% of the price, for sure!

Adi-Benz

You know, your data is not fully considerable.

Similar to any statistical test, the size of the sample groups matters. So basically, you've driven 1 Genesis, for example, which only gives you 1 point of data for the group. That's not enough data to make a solid decision because the more data points you have, the more accurate your decision will be.

So, the easy way of saying this is by example car search. When we were looking for Jeeps, we drove quite a few Grand Cherokee's. The one we have now is the last one we test drove, and it was much quieter than some previous ones. Basically, even if the car is made in the same factory, under similar conditions, they will NEVER be exactly the same.

Sometimes the glue is thicker lol.

But basically it comes down to driving more cars. Frankly I don't see a point of you switching away from the w204. You might be better off buying a c63 instead haha.

Also, while I don't think it's applicable to the s-class; although it may be (haven't looked) take the w205 c-class for example. People have lots more creaks and rattles in the sedan than the coupe. Also a note that the sedan is made in the US and the coupe is made in Germany. Perhaps indifferent in that way; but the car construction is a little different so that's why I suggest you try it.

Also cls53 is a hybrid style vehicle. Try it for fun at least.

superangrypenguin

Please don't make the assumption I have driven the G90 only once. I have driven MY 2017, and now MY 2018, each twice. I've driven the Audi A8 3.0T once, the 4.0T once (both 2018s). The 2015, and 2018 S550 (each once), the E300, E400 (each once, MY17 and MY18), the Lexus LS500 (once), etc.

I'm very very thorough in my testing and I try to be as scientific as possible.

---
But yes I would never consider the W205. Lots of issues, and the car is statistically louder than the W204, and don't take my word, take a look at the test results of both the W204 and the W205 by Car and Driver. They do interior noise measurements themselves at 70mph.

I'd like to stick with MB, but yes, one real possibility I am now entertaining is to shush up and to stick with the 204. Not ideal for a few reasons but it may really well be the best thing to do (to wait), until something really excites me.

Alfadude

I think you will never be truely satisfied and will always be second guessing yourself no matter what you buy.

Adi-Benz

Of course, just offering suggestion. I looked at cars for a year and a half before I bought my w204.

[/quote]
But yes I would never consider the W205. Lots of issues, and the car is statistically louder than the W204, and don't take my word, take a look at the test results of both the W204 and the W205 by Car and Driver. They do interior noise measurements themselves at 70mph.
I'd like to stick with MB, but yes, one real possibility I am now entertaining is to shush up and to stick with the 204. Not ideal for a few reasons but it may really well be the best thing to do (to wait), until something really excites me.[/QUOTE]

Yes, the w205 is pretty lackluster imo and I know about the problems. However, the ability to make 1000 horsepower with not too much effort in the new 4.0 biturbos has me a bit flattered :/

Its cheaper to insulate your car more than buy another car haha.

superangrypenguin

But yes I would never consider the W205. Lots of issues, and the car is statistically louder than the W204, and don't take my word, take a look at the test results of both the W204 and the W205 by Car and Driver. They do interior noise measurements themselves at 70mph.
I'd like to stick with MB, but yes, one real possibility I am now entertaining is to shush up and to stick with the 204. Not ideal for a few reasons but it may really well be the best thing to do (to wait), until something really excites me.[/QUOTE]

Yes, the w205 is pretty lackluster imo and I know about the problems. However, the ability to make 1000 horsepower with not too much effort in the new 4.0 biturbos has me a bit flattered :/

Its cheaper to insulate your car more than buy another car haha.[/QUOTE]

WOW!!!!!

I thought I was bad at my current car buying process. I've been at this a few months (on and off), and with my existing 204 the entire buying process (decision making process to 'buy') took 30 seconds...

I feel better now, thanks

Adi-Benz

Lol. It was funny cause it started as looking for a smaller nice car and then we ended up replacing our 2nd jeep with the 3rd jeep. It just needed new tires but I guess we kinda got caught up in the car shopping haha. So the benz got pushed to the side. Couple months later picked it up.

Alfadude

How about a Lincoln Continental? 400 horsepower twin turbo V6, trick 30 position massaging seats that have gotten some outstanding reviews for your sensitive back and a highly regarded Revel sound system?

superangrypenguin

Good suggestion and I did try out the car due to the seats. As others have mentioned on Youtube the seats are hyped up. They are not even as comfortable as the base 204 seats, which although old now were in their defense highly researched seats by Mercedes. To say I was underwhelmed by the Lincoln's seats is understating it.

Alfadude

Alfa Romeo Giulia?