caiNeco_hTx

Today I took the car so my mechanic could take a look, and he did not only diagnose the high-pressure fuel pump, but also the failing timing chain as you mentioned. The rattle on a cold start would almost not crank the car at all. According to him, that would cost a lot of money to repair so I went ahead and returned the car to the used car dealership I bought. The MF took 350$ from my down payment alleging "processing fees" and for the time I kept the car. I am so pissed, but at the same time relieved because his actions did not show me any good intentions and my loss could be much greater than the $350 he took it.

Odd Piggy

You may have gotten off light. Timing chain, related parts, and h-p fuel pump = $2700. But it seems that the used car dealer should not have kept the $350. You said on the 12th that the car was purchased 2 days ago. That would be the 10th. In Texas you should have 3 business days to return a car with no penalty. The 13th was a Sunday so it seems like you could get all your deposit back on the 14th if the timing is right.

aydeger

Hi all,
I just took my car (2013 C250 with 78k miles) to the MB dealer and get it diagnosed. They confirmed the P034062 code and agreed changing the camshaft adjuster. However, they suggest changing the intake camshaft too and quoted 1793$ only for this part of the work. Their email says: "Your vehicle would also need the intake camshaft in order to get it in time. The camshaft has twisted over time and it is preventing the timing marks to line up. The camshaft is not covered under the cam adjuster extended warranty. Please let me know how you would like to proceed."

I also attached their 'service diagnosis and recommended service quota' below.
First of all, is this even normal to fail? How can I make sure the dealer does not add something extra without even needing this? Has anyone fixed this experienced something similar? Should it be a thing to fix/change? If so, should it be covered under the warranty as well?

Odd Piggy

Unless one of the professional mechanics says otherwise, I call foul on this one. In 50 years of taking cars apart and putting them back together, I have never seen a twisted camshaft. Timing marks not aligning in this repair can be the result of improper reassembly.

NZ-Merc

Hi with the camshaft twisting they are either blatntly lying to you or talking bull****e either way not professional.
The cam shaft is driven by chain from the front, the sprocket bolts on to the camshaft and the timing marks are on the sprocket, even if the camshaft snapped in half the timing marks will still align.

If they are saying they cannot time then has nothing to do with the camshaft at all like Old piggy said.

At this stage I take it it has not been worked on all they are doing is diagnosing by guessing in preparation to book you in which you are probably best to fire an email back along with one to Mercedes USA
reporting that you are not confident in the service adviser to look after your repairs under warranty.

aydeger

Thanks for the responses!
I already contacted MBUSA through email and chat, they called me back by saying trust the dealer diagnosis in short and that the part is not covered. They were not really helpful on the issue with the dealer.
Then, I contacted the service advisory and manager at the dealer with more questions. The following are the responses from them:
"The issues is that the toner wheel that is used by the camshaft position sensor to know the speed and position of the camshaft is turned, in relation to the camshaft lobes. A photo will not really show this, but I am happy to provide one. Parts and labor are $1739+tax/misc, while we are doing the repair for the warranty extension. It is significantly more expensive to do after the warranty extension repair is completed."

I was then arguing on the price point and how much labor would be if the car is already re-assembled. The following is the response:
"The part number for the camshaft is 271-050-14-01. The additional labor to replace the camshaft is 5.6 hours because the technician would need to remove the high pressure fuel pump, vacuum pump and the bed plate for the camshaft. The price breakdown is $980.00 for labor and $759.00 for the part. The labor to do this now is significantly less than if the vehicle went back together and we needed to start over. The labor to replace the camshaft from start to finish is 11.5 hours, which equates to $2012.50."

The picture attached is the one they sent to me saying that is where the problem is (the misaligned camshaft). I have already told them do NOT do this work on the car and just fix the camshaft adjuster. However, I wanted to ask some other professionals opinions on this. What do you guys think about this?

NZ-Merc

Hi,
I would be interest also in other members options, this is what I think.
The photo you have posted above means nothing with out: two other photos showing the crankshaft exactly on TDC and then a photo showing the inlet camshaft alignment to the pointer.

The photo showing above showing misalignment may be due: crankshaft not on TDC, timing chain one tooth out on exhaust camshaft phaser/timing sprocket or normal worn timing chain.
I cannot think of any other explanations for this, currently not twisted camshaft or any other excuses.

Okay Now if you carefully study the video I attached and freeze frame it at the same angle as your photo, you can clearly see the (front) alignment mark on the phaser/sprocket and rear mark on your photo differ from the video. This video has a new timing chain installed so everything will be perfect.

Just looks like it off a tooth either that or normal stretch of the chain, just guess with the photos provided either way don't replace the exhaust camshaft.


Do you know any good mechanics or indy who you could hire to go with you to visit your car and look for yourself, if yes great contact the dealers with your concerns and say you are going to have their diagnosis pair reviewed by an independent engineering firm I think that should ring there red alarm bell.

aydeger

Unfortunately, I could not get any indy to go with me and declined the extra service at the dealer since I did not trust them much.
After I got the car, there was already engine light and service advisory was telling me the same thing about changing camshaft or the code will stay etc. Today I read the code and it is P0017. The car starts better than before, but after starting, it is not smooth on idle kind of losing the power. After I start driving, it is quite smooth and fine, at least so far in 3-4 days with 250 miles.
So, my question, can the dealer somehow mess while repairing that cause such problem now? Or this is something not very related (even though I believe it is quite related)?

Odd Piggy

DTC P0017 refers to misalignment of timing between camshaft and crankshaft.

Stretched timing chain maybe? But then I fail to understand why the dealer did not recommend replacing it.

I have seen older US cars, where the vibration damper can slip causing timing marks for the crankshaft to be misaligned, with this kind of problem. But I don’t know if that’s possible on the M271.

Unfortunately, even if the car runs okay, it will not pass the next emission inspection with that DTC showing. You may have to take the car to an independent shop to get further diagnosis at that point. You really need a shop that does a lot of MB work. Like NZ-merc said, there are 3 marks that must line up when the engine is properly timed: 1-The crankshaft at TDC; 2-The camshaft mark exactly at the timing pointer; 3-The camshaft adjuster mark aligned with the camshaft mark.

chinatownabc

Currently in the market to pick up a c250 2013, and recently learned about this camshaft adjusters issue. Wanted some input and advice. Thanks.

Are all c250 M271 affect? The warranty only says 2012 to 2014 sedans, how about the c250 2011 sedans?

If camshaft adjuster havent failed and the car is past 100k, does it mean it wasn't affected?

Will they perform the work if the camshaft adjusters havent failed and you just want the assurance?

The car I'm looking to pick up is a c250 2013 sedan with 108k mileage. Anything I should look out for or avoid. Thanks everyone.

Odd Piggy

Well, these are my opinions based on having one that did fail, Mercedes covering the repairs, and talking to 2 indie mechs who I know and trust. My work was covered but others have reported problems getting satisfaction. Other input is welcomed.

The fact that the car has 100k+ miles is no guarantee that it is not affected. These camshaft adjusters (also called phasers) work just fine up to the point where something internal fails and they then they don't. The car is okay one day and not okay the next. See if a service history of the car is available to see what major work has been done. MB dealers usually don't deal with cars that lack verifiable service records. If the car has had the cam adjusters replaced, add 75k miles to the mileage when that was done as the expected mileage before the next failure.

The main symptom of failed camshaft adjusters is hard starting, especially on the first start of the day. Associated with that is usually a loud rattling from under the hood. The rattling by itself can also be caused by a failing timing chain, chain tensioner, or worn guides. NOTE: a car that has been recently started may not exhibit any of those problems on a hot restart. So if the car you are looking at is started warm for the test ride, it could still have a serious problem. My C250 would start hard in the morning and set the CEL and code P0340. After about 3 short trips and restarts, it would start normally and the CEL would go off. However, the DTC memory would still show a history of the P0340 code. The next morning, the problem would repeat. An unscrupulous dealer would know this and may start the car a few times throughout the day to hide the problem. Unlike many of the V6 engines, there are no windows where the alignment of the timing marks can be checked. That's a $300 shop job on the M271. Buyer beware.

A 2013 C250 with 100k+ miles on it that has not had the timing chain and guides replaced is due for that service because there have been a lot of catastrophic failures from a "stretched" chain jumping teeth and destroying the engine at 95k+ miles. The timing chain and guides are NOT covered under the extended warranty. MB will NOT replace the cam adjusters for your peace of mind. If the car is in otherwise great shape and there is no indication of the camshaft adjusters and timing chain, being replaced, just assume that the car needs about $3000 (indie prices) of work in the near term and factor that into the price you will pay. If I were going to buy a C250 planning on replacing the timing chain, I would go ahead and replace the camshaft adjusters too. My indie mechs recommend using only the MB adjusters which are about $1500 for the intake/exhaust pair.

Now, all that being said, the W204 with M271 engine is a likable car with excellent driving dynamics. My 2013 C250 looks pretty much like a new car and drives like that too. Would I buy another one? Yes - for the right price.

Tcbutler

Finding this is a lifesaver. My indie guy was telling me about this but he was explaining it as a recall and not a warranty extension so I couldn’t find info on it.

I’ve got a 2012 C250 122k miles. It’s got the rattle on startup and yesterday it gave me the P0017 code. I know that’s a pretty broad code but surely it’s related to the camshaft adjuster I would assume.

I just emailed a local MB dealer, going to see where it goes

aydeger

Thanks for the response!
They recommended changing the camshaft but nothing related to timing chain was mentioned. Also, how much would it be possible for timing chain to fail and that I receive the P0017 code right after they fixed/changed camshaft adjusters?
I live in Illinois and here no emission inspection to pass. I can live with the car as long as it does not break. I will try to see an independent mechanic or any other MB dealer to get an opinion. But, since the car running is quite fine, I may delay this a bit (not sure if it will go any worse).

Odd Piggy

Good luck! Driving with a CEL on just makes me uncomfortable. Watch for telltale signs of problems like coolant temps a little higher or lower than normal, crackling exhaust noise on deceleration, unusually good or bad fuel mileage (a C250 that suddenly gets 34 mpg on the highway when it used to get 30 has a problem).

One would think that MB dealers would be the best there are, and some are. But some are not. I’ve been charged for work that on examination had not been done, had warranty work done that needed to be redone, and had work suggested that was unnecessary. Other MB dealers are straight up, provide top quality work, and will invite you into the shop to explain difficult situations.

vc98

i got code p0340 and they said that they will cover it and no costs due to rattling noises i dont know if they got p03462 but on mine i got p0340 and they said that they will cover it with a loaner but i gotta wait two weeks to get a loaner so yeah

PDs2007C230

So Mercedes still has not fixed their timing chain and camshaft adjuster problem on their cars. My C230 cost me $3500 to fix the balance shaft. Camshaft adjusters just about last 10k miles before they need to be replaced. Their engineering sucks and so do their parts. They will not take responsibility for their design failures they just put off the lawsuits and by the time the consumer wins a lawsuit the 10 year time frame is up. They really suck as a company. My wife wants me to buy another one of these pieces of junk. I am fighting it but I will loose.

will0266

i fresh out of Marine Boot Camp and recently bought a 2012 c250 after a few weeks of driving it started making a real loud noise when i start the car i’ve never owned a Mercedes before and i don’t have $3000 to just fix it i have not received any letter and just really at a loss. if anyone can help or point me in the right direction of getting this fixed i would greatly appreciate it.
thank in advance

Odd Piggy

Does the noise sound like shaking rocks around in an empty paint can? Or like grinding gears in a manual transmission? Those are the common ones associated with this failure.

You don't need a letter. The warranty coverage applies to all M271 EVO engines in the C and SLK Classes. But if you don't also have a check engine light (CEL), you may be denied coverage. If the cam adjusters are failing and you don't have the CEL now, it will begin to come on soon. And it may be intermittent, depending on how the car is used. Calling quickly might be important, because the coverage has a time limit and some of the 2012 models may be getting close.

Unfortunately, only failures associated with the cam adjusters are covered under the warranty. If it is just a stretched timing chain or a failed tensioner, you will have to pay for that repair. But a timing chain can be replaced by a competent indie shop for far less than the cam adjusters.

If you haven't already read it, the first post in this thread gives the details, including a number for MBUSA customer service. MBUSA can give the location of a dealer if you don't know where to bring it.

Jsexton

I own a 2011 C180 CGI with a M271.9 engine and wondering if this car is also covered as I have heard nothing?

Many thanks,

James

Odd Piggy

The letter specifically states that it starts with 2012 models. That letter went out to the last owner of record on those cars and I own a 2013. I wouldn’t know if MBUSA has other coverage for different years or models. Your local dealer would be able to let you know if there is another extended warranty for your car.

SpecialKC

Hello MBFamily,

I am currently at a loss. I have a C250 with about 85k on it. I went to a grocery store got back in my car and it wouldn't start. Had it towed to the benz shop and they took 2 days to access that it's was the camshaft(under the warranty that expires I believe in March 2023). Or maybe that's just specific to my car. Anywho, they replaced the camshaft and the car still will not start. They are saying now they need to take apart the engine because there is no compression to the cylinders. I feel like this may be due to the camshaft going out. Shouldn't this be also covered under their warranty?

Odd Piggy

These Mercedes Benz extended warranties are very specific as to what is covered and what isn't. Some owners have been satisfied, some have not.
Is the "benz shop" a dealer? If the warranty is Mercedes Benz then it would have to be. If the warranty is 3rd party, then maybe not.
If you can post the diagnostic info on the problem, maybe it will attract comment from one of the members with a pro background.

SpecialKC

P034062; P032800 or P032B00;P001700; P04417A
those are the codes I was given. It is at a dealership.

Odd Piggy

P034062 is the common fault for the camshaft adjusters.
P001700 refers to the crankshaft and camshaft timing being out of sync.
P032800 is related to the knock sensor circuit.
P04417A is related to the evaporative emission system.

Since the camshaft adjusters have been replaced, the P001700 indicates there is something else wrong or broken. I'm at the limit of how deep I can go, but the dealer should be willing to discuss this with you.

SpecialKC

I believe that those codes were before they replaced the camshaft. Now they are saying the car is giving no error but it won't start still only crank for that 5 seconds and then shuts off.