i'm curious if anyone has any experience dealing with the cylinder head removal in an M272 or similar engine.

I ask because my car is currently at the MB dealer to have the passenger side exhaust manifold replaced. They just informed the engine has to come out and it will be over $10,000. So I asked if they can just remove the cylinder head instead, I mean isnt that much easier?

The woman calls back saying the tech said it will be around the same cost as pulling the engine. It doesnt make sense, I asked and they charge $225/hr labor. So they are claiming its around 40 hours, to R&R the engine, or R&R the cylinder head? Takes 1 work week?

I came across some labor number in an MB manual i have, its old. Im wondering if im reading it right. I think its saying to R&R the engine its around 6-12 hours?

 

Ok, she just called me back. Now she said 28hrs of labor to R&R cylinder head, NOT including any parts it will need like gaskets, head bolts etc.

I do have all the stuff for the exhaust manifold at least. Still 28 hours seems high to me, thats over 3 working days for 1 cylinder head?

Heres the original price quote they sent me:

 

Why are they saying to drill out the old exhaust manifold bolts? Do you have an indy you can trust that has done this before? Indy labor rates are usually much less.

 

I do not know any repair shops. I have always managed to work on an repair my vehicles myself. But this exhaust manifold is more than I feel comfortable doing due to the severely rusted nuts/studs. I attempted to start removing the nuts myself and snapped one, so gave up.

last month I took it to a local repair shop hoping they could do it. Nope, they turned out to be hacks and screwed it up more. Thankfully they gave up before doing anymore damage. Long story but just to give you an example they damaged one of the O2 sensors and they put them back in the wrong spots.

So I decided to give in and bring it to Mercedes, hoping they had experience and labor wouldnt be that bad. Until i got that text about pulling the engine and it costing over $10,000. Thats when I mention just pulling the head hoping it would be much cheaper. Still they say 28 hours labor. Im having trouble seeing how it would take that long, I could be totally wrong since ive never done it.

With the stud iIsnapped I can see it is not broken off flush, I was thinking maybe get some vice grips on it and maybe turn it out. Not to say all the other studs wont snap off.

I'm fine with the hourly rate, i just dont know if they are being for real with the time. Does it really take over 3 work days to do?

I found some instructions on the M272 in W211, I have a W204 but im assuming it is similar.

 

“I'm fine with the hourly rate, i just dont know if they are being for real with the time. Does it really take over 3 work days to do?”

It does if they make an engine out job out of it. I haven’t done this on any Mercedes. But I have done it on a lot of other V8 & V6 vehicles. If clearance won’t let you get the exhaust manifold off without removing the head, I would think that the head could come off without pulling the engine.

That being said, I still see a machine shop job replacing those steel manifold studs in the aluminum head. Being careless could easily cost you a cylinder head.

My guess on time is 8 hours + machine shop cost or 14 hours with in house machine work. That’s from my head, not a flat rate manual.

 

I truly believe they simply gave you the I don't wanna do it price but if you'll pay this we'll do it. It's common in estimating technique used by many businesses.

If your mechanical skills even come close to your research skills you should be able to do this yourself tho it's a crowded and not easy job. And I would heat every exhaust bolt red hot before trying to turn them to help keep them from snapping.

I feel your pain tho cuz exhaust work kinda sucks

 

gotcha on the rust. I do remember reading that other thread and the damages they caused. Good luck moving forward. If you really think you could do it in a DIY fashion, it’ll definitely take you more than three days, but you have to value that against the 10 grand even if you think it’ll take mechanic less time than that. Book time can seem like too much, but it’s also there to save people on the standard repairs when a mechanic takes too long and passes the book time.

 

Just got a call back for the total estimate parts + labor. $7,629.14. It was the SA who called, nice girl and helpful, very good experience dropping the car off and setting me up with a loaner.

That said i asked who exactly is giving this estimate, she said its "just the tech working on your car". I was being extremely nice to her, saying im not trying to argue but the 28 hours labor isnt making sense to me, i went as far as saying i looked all around and im getting half that, "maybe 14 hours" I told her. i asked if the head guy can (whoever that is) can double check the numbers. She said she will have the manager check and give me a call back later today.

I need it done, and i just want it over with so will pay the $7k + if thats what it costs. But i dont want to be ripped off.

 

Got a call back, they wont budge on the labor. So I said go ahead and just get it done.

The bill should be $8,105.96 w/tax. It is now Tuesday morning, she said it will be ready next Tuesday or Wednesday. To replace the passenger side exhaust manifold on the M272 engine.

The funny thing is, not really funny, is I have a PZEV with the 15yr/150,000 mile warranty and it shows the exhaust manifold as being covered. But my car has 157,000 miles. If I had caught this issue earlier, which I do believe it has been leaking for awhile now just hardly noticeable, it would be covered.

 

My shop is not really set up for machine work beyond drilling, threading and tapping. I would probably do the same thing. If I did decide to tackle it, I would pull in a helper.
Being beyond the extended warranty coverage is unfortunate.
Question: Does the price include a loaner while the work is being done? One of our local dealers provides a loaner at the book price or at $80/day for a discounted price.

 

The loaner vehicle is free, 2025 GLA 250, just have to return it with the same amount of gas as when I picked it up. I specifically asked about it just to make sure on this last phone call. The free loaner did factor into deciding to have the work done, its just one less thing to worry about and extremely convenient.

 

Ok, I think a better idea would be to take it to a couple of Exhaust Specialist Workshops and get a quote or two, it's all they do, day in, day out, remove stubborn exhaust manifolds ect.

If anyone is going to have specialist tools and know the tricks and shortcuts to do the job in car and get it done in a timely manner it will be these guys.

Unfortunately dealer workshops these days are very much simply "plug and play" institutions where actually fixing something is usually avoided.

 

I hear you about an exhaust specialist and i did try to look around to see what I could find. In my many hours of researching "how to remove rusted exhaust manifold bolts" I came across alot of youtube videos where they welded nuts on and got them out. I would love to find a place like that, I just cant find any around me.

Plus i do know at least one of the studs/nuts is right at the engine mount and very hard to even get to, nevermind it being rusted and will probably snap taking it out. At this point I really do not trust anyone working on my car except for Mercedes. Even the independent MB/BMW shop I stopped in at I got an odd feeling from the guy and turned around and left. I'm glad only the head is being pulled, less to worry about going wrong in my opinion.

Its already at MB, I have a loaner, I just need it done at this point. The stress alone dealing with this, what I went thru with that hack shop having my car for 7 days and only managed to mess it up more. I really really lucked out that they stopped and did not pull the engine like they were going to do. I dont think the car would ever run right again.

My advice to anyone with the M272 engine, or any engine I guess, that is covered with the PZEV warranty is to closely inspect everything that is covered and catch it early so you are not stuck paying for it later when the warranty is expired.

 

Are all the parts you supplied genuine MB parts?

 

The only parts that were not genuine Mercedes was the manifold nuts but they were the OE ones from FCP. Everything else was Genuine Mercedes, even bought a few of the parts from the MB dealer that has the car now. I bought the replacement exhaust manifold used from an Arizona salvage yard which cleaned up very nicely so I see no reason not to use it. It was that or get a new manifold for over $400. Seems like a small cost now since I originally figured I could just replace everything myself.

 

Hi,
I am not sure exactly what the issue is but think it is:
Exhaust manifold broken attach bolt to the cylinder head?

Have you had it checked if exhaust gas is leaking off between the head and manifold if this is the fault?