c4004matic

I'd say the chance of a 450 replacing the 400 is close, if not lower, than zero. The engine is a brand new design slated to be used in a variety of models. I'd bet this engine will probably be around for the whole production run of the W205.

c4004matic

Of course not. There is also a 12k differential base price and no AWD.
Different cars for different purposes. The AMG is like my s2000 (though much faster), a fair weather car, not a daily driver for anywhere where snow may happen. Of course the AMG is also a collectible. The C400 is an everyday car, just a very nice, fast one.

mihaelb

The C400, loaded with options, can easily get to the mid-60s. if the C450 would cost 5-10k more, I think that it is already very close to Tesla Model S 85D (practical range AND AWD), which would be 20k or so more loaded(much less if 'base').
Am I the only one who would rather pay that little bit more at that point for the similar performance, but with the convenience of never having to go to the gas station and environmental friendliness?

PeterUbers

You're forgetting that Benz models get nice discounts eventually, particularly the c class ... And the awd tesla is $120k and limited discounts ... How did you make that leap?

And don't worry, no one will ever force you to buy a c450, I promise. And there are many many tesla lovers out there you can relate to, lol! The tesla is in a performance league of it's own... Instant torque and 11 seconds or less in the 1/4... Hopefully it's a reliable car long term

Germancar1

You better read up, the C450 and the C400 share the same exact engine, a 3.0L turbo V6. The C450 just has more boost and other small changes to get more hp and torque. The higher output version is already in the 2015 GL450. Same engine, different output. Media outlets have already let it slip that C450 will replace the C400 for MY 2016.

M

mihaelb

Wasn't looking at the P85, but the regular 85D (AWD). $86,570

Germancar1

What does the Tesla have to do with the C400?

M

PeterUbers

Like the c63 and c63s, and like the e63 and e63S, and like the ... My point is that there is a precedent for these things at Benz and amg, small tweaks same engine and bigger price tag... Time will tell if the 450 will replace the 400, I doubt it for at least two years

Germancar1

Its pretty much a done deal already. I didn't think the E400 would replace the E550, but it has.

M

PeterUbers

Not in canada, and other parts of the world. The e550 wasn't a brand new car either, it can been around for a while and sales were dismal. C400 is brand new

I guess we will see. I've read and heard lots over the years that was "definitive" and the exact opposite occurred

PeterUbers

Touché

PeterUbers

The point he was making is that projected pricing of the c450 which as it stands is totally arbitrary and based on our opinions only, he would rather drop those dimes on a tesla and also enjoy the benefit of the performance and petrol free driving

He makes a good point, for some it'll be something to consider... Though I think most people looking at amg or amg-lite do not have tesla on their radar at all

Germancar1

At over 20K difference it is really a reach for most if not all C-Class buyers, really silly IMO. Why not just go for a S550 then or why not a Rolls Ghost. A C450 doesn't compete with a Tesla.

M

Germancar1

You guys don't get it so it isn't worth debating.

M

PeterUbers

Lol

JonathonK

Is it just me, or are regular cars getting extremely fast? Autobytel just had their hands on the new C400 4MATIC and got some pretty interesting performance figures from the almost-entry-level Mercedes sedan.

Read the rest on the MBWorld homepage. >>

mihaelb

Although it's a reach for some C class buyers, I'd argue that those going for a C450 won't have as much of a reach problem.

Those $20k are not 'recoverable' by going for an S550 or Rolls Royce.

In the case of the Tesla, you get an an electric car, which saves you money at the pump, saves you tonnes of times by not having to GO TO the pump to beginwith, bundled with a cleaner conscience with the environment, and those 20K don't seem like that much (if at all) of a premium.

c4004matic

The Tesla is a fad. It only works as transportation if you're trip is within its modest range. If not prepare for a multihour layover where ever you go. As to the super performance, a few runs at full tilt will cut your distance by half. In general its a self indulgent toy for those with the money to show of their pseudo concern for the environment. The fact is if you are truly green you buy a cheap 4 cylinder car with excellent mileage like a Honda Fit.

Germancar1

I would. People don't just say oh, let me jump from 50-60K to 80K, but whatever the plot was long long ago here.

I know what the Tesla is, it still isn't a direct competitor to the C-Class.

M

mihaelb

Fad? The Model S alone will have sold 60,000 cars by the end of this year. Some fad.


On the odd occasion that I would go on a long trip, and not want to make stops to refuel (I'm assuming that you are referring to a trip that won't be anywhere near a supercharger, which charges your car fast and free, or near the quick-swap battery terminals where they can swap your battery ask in 90 seconds), I can rent a gas car. For 95% of the population 95%of their driving is 100km a day or so. The Tesla 85D's range (combined EPA) is 265 miles, or over 400km.


As for your comments about range being cut on hard accelerations, that's the case for any car, gas or electric.


Honda Fit: that's your solution to environmental issues? Suggesting that people drive tiny, basic hatchbacks?

mihaelb

I think the C450 would be 60-70k, as the C400 starts at 50. Anyways, I do agree that the electric cars aren't in the forefront C class shoppers, but then again, they aren't in the forefront of most car shoppers' minds either.


If I were looking at a fast luxury sports sedan like the C450, and was looking at a 70k bill, the Tesla would be a major consideration for me, and probably would win out. a 25% stretch just isn't that big, which is why so many that originally came to look at buying a C300 ended up bumping up to the C400 instead.

c4004matic

If you are truly concerned with the environment you buy a car that has the smallest environmental footprint. A Fit uses a fraction of the resources a Tesla uses to build, operate, maintain, run and dispose of. Tiny? A Fit's interior room and luggage capacity rival a Tesla! A Tesla is the environmental statement for those that totally ignorant about the environment. Its the equivalent of those that discuss the problem of hunger while eating like roman senators at a 1000 dollar per person "benefit". BTW your comment about the Tesla range compared to a gas car is utterly ridiculous. Even with the additional 10000 optional battery pack a Tesla is nowhere as utilitarian as an internal combustion engine or a hybrid. The internal combustion engine replaced the electric car more than a century ago for the same reason that the Tesla will never be more than a novelty, a pound of gasoline contains ten times the energy density that a pound of the most modern batteries has. Furthermore that energy can be replenished in 5 minutes instead of hours that it takes to charge even the best batteries with the faster charger. Even with Tesla fast chargers, only 80% of the battery can be replenished quickly, thus you already cut 20% of the top. Add air conditioning or a heater and your range goes directly into the ****ter. If you wish to believe Elon Musk's BS, that's entirely up to you. People that can do simple math can figure out the reality.
BTW if you are truly so worried about the environment TAKE THE BUS! And like with the Tesla for those times that public transport won't do get a rental��

mihaelb

Wow, almost everything you said above is wrong (and has been repeatedly proven as such-look up those points individually), and you call others ignorant?

ddeliber

I believe that many people who choose a C400 after initially looking at a C300 do so because the price difference turns out to be something like $3000 - assuming they were getting premium and sport packages (unless they changed something recently). That is not 25%, in fact, it is the obvious choice to me.

c4004matic

[QUOTE=mihaelb;6212082]Wow, almost everything you said above is wrong (and has been repeatedly proven as such-look up those points individually), and you call others ignorant?[/QUOTE



People like you make me laugh.
Here learn something:
http://www.plugincars.com/tesla-mode...on-127409.html


BTW, the most expensive Tesla battery, which costs as much as the whole Fit carries 85 kw. One gallon of gasoline is 33.7 Kw empg, ergo the largest pack can be expected to produce as much energy as 2.5 gallons of gasoline. See, you simply cannot beat MATH. Even the car with the smallest tank about 12 gallons Can do 5 times the amount of work a Tesla can be refueled in five minutes, anywhere on the planet. I'm I making any inroads in that rusty trap called a mind? Or are you too star struck by the guy selling you snake oil with a little microphone hanging from his ear?