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Not to steal attention from StanNH's original post regarding this issue but it's lost attention due to the bleeding so I figured I would start a new thread.
I'm having my seats currently replaced and when I brought up the alignment of the lights the service rep said that they have looked at every C in their inventory and they all match what mine / Stan's are like. I verified that my loaner's are exactly the same as well. I asked if they checked to make sure that no hooks or latches are loose and he confirmed everything is attached correctly.
A good friend of mine works as a salesman at a different location and said that all of his inventory is identical and there are similar gaps on the Es as well. I have been close friends with him since long before he worked for MB.
Finally, I examined a couple BMW 3-Series and a GLI that are in the garage attached to my apartment complex and there were similar gaps.
At this point I'm leaning towards believing the "it's the way it is" line as the actual truth and not just dealer-speak. If anyone can prove that theirs is completely flush and / or they had it actually serviced by their dealer I can change my mind and go back to the dealer with evidence but at this point there isn't any I've seen.
Last edited by Pracht; 01-16-2015 at 09:13 AM.
Reason: Didn't finish!
Not to steal attention from StanNH's original post regarding this issue but it's lost attention due to the bleeding so I figured I would start a new thread.
I'm having my seats currently replaced and when I brought up the alignment of the lights the service rep said that they have looked at every C in their inventory and they all match what mine / Stan's are like. I verified that my loaner's are exactly the same as well. I asked if they checked to make sure that no hooks or latches are loose and he confirmed everything is attached correctly.
A good friend of mine works as a salesman at a different location and said that all of his inventory is identical and there are similar gaps on the Es as well. I have been close friends with him since long before he worked for MB.
Finally, I examined a couple BMW 3-Series and a GLI that are in the garage attached to my apartment complex and there were similar gaps.
At this point I'm leaning towards believing the "it's the way it is" line as the actual truth and not just dealer-speak. If anyone can prove that theirs is completely flush and / or they had it actually serviced by their dealer I can change my mind and go back to the dealer with evidence but at this point there isn't any I've seen.
I think you're right. My lights fit fine, but there a step between the upper and lower panels ... with the upper section lining up with the trim on the trunk. I really think this is just how the car is built.
If this is the way it's supposed to be, then why have we seen photos to the contrary? We have seen pictures of SA and European built cars and a car at the Detroit show (white C450?) where everything is flush. Could it be that every Alabama car is messed up, so we Americans are viewing the flaw as normal? Man, those Germans are tricky fellows!
I'm not buying it. There is too much variation in the pictures previously posted for this to be normal. Even the cars I saw at several dealerships varied from hardly noticeable to painfully obvious.
I think MBUSA is creating their own design variation due to poor QC. Call it the Bama Bump.
It's not supposed to be like that. The gaps around the lights are uneven in addition to the bumper being pushed in at the top. It's clearly misaligned.
The pictures I've seen of "normal" ones (especially the auto show C450) are taken from feet away at a diagonal perspective looking downward at the outer side of the taillight. I can take a picture of mine from the exact same angle and you won't be able to tell there is separation on the inner side.
In fact, go to the "pictures" sticky and find Stan's, it's on one of the first pages. His (now well documented) separation is not visible from the angles he posted.
I've yet to see completely flush pictures from the angles used by Stan or the person that held a ruler against it. Even the bumper in the promo close up of the electric one is definitely NOT flush.
Again, if there are close up shots of flush inner lights then I'll eat my words and storm immediately back to the dealership but so far the examples I've seen are not from a good enough perspective to say definitively that there is no gap.
As examples I have attached shots of my loaner from various angles trying to replicate the white C450. If you can honestly tell me that from the outer angles the gaps are visible then you have amazing vision, but I can say if I were a dealer there is no way I would use those pictures as proof that they are supposed to be flush.
Every C-Class I've looked at had the same step between the upper fender and the bumper cover. The bumper cover is one piece, and mates to the outer fender perfectly, so how could it even be moved out without losing that line?
That picture of the inner driver is obviously misaligned. The others are too dark to make out one way or the other. The pictures I recall seeing of the white C450 and the red and white SA built cars make it pretty clear that something is wrong with the Bama version.
Maybe we can get some pictures for non-USA cars for comparison. Comparing USA cars is worthless as they all share the same flaw. Just because every car built in Bama has the flaw does not make it acceptable.
Someone scratched my bumper on New Years eve. After getting several quotes and yelping for the best auto body shop in town, I took my car in last Monday. They called me on Wednesday to pick it up. Since they had to take the bumper out, when they put it back in they did a horrible job with the fitting. The left taillight gaps were not even same as the right side. In addition, they managed to chip the bumper from another corner. I told him where the problems were and went back the next day for a second try.
I think they did a pretty good job. The alignment of the taillights are now much better then the factory fitting. Here are the pictures:
The assembly line is moving a feet per few seconds, and these people on the line dont have time to properly figure it out. They are simply clipping the bumpers in and then moving it on to the next vehicle. Who is to say what is "normal"? If they had more time or if they really cared, I am sure the taillights and the bumper could be made to perfect fit. However, that is clearly not the case and maybe it is okay to accept it as the norm
The assembly line is moving a feet per few seconds, and these people on the line dont have time to properly figure it out. They are simply clipping the bumpers in and then moving it on to the next vehicle. Who is to say what is "normal"? If they had more time or if they really cared, I am sure the taillights and the bumper could be made to perfect fit. However, that is clearly not the case and maybe it is okay to accept it as the norm
Wow! What happened to "The Best Or Nothing"? In this case the "norm" is not acceptable. However, it is good for the ex-Yugo QC people to have finally found jobs in Alabama after all these years.
Seriously, W205's made in the USA should look no different than those made in MB's other plants around the world. Pushed in/misaligned bumper fitment and ill fitting tail lights appear to be standard only in America, just like the bleeding seats. Why should US customers be expected to pay a premium price for a flawed product? If MBUSA were in any other luxury line business these cars would be sold as "seconds" in outlet stores.
Let's see if MB steps up to own this problem and make it right. So far, it appears the dealers are doing their best to sweep it under the rug. "They all look that way" is not a valid reason to ignore an obvious build problem. This being my first MB I didn't realize so many MB customers are accepting of mediocre quality, even if it is "the norm." Thought this car was supposed to be exceptional. "The Best Or Nothing"? So far, it appears MBUSA is opting for the Nothing.
Hey, I'm with you Gocal. I am a perfectionist and I can't stand to see things like this. But 'the best or nothing" comes from the marketing department. They can say whatever they want. At the end of the day, they aren't the one building the cars. Also to be fair, mercedes are cheaper in the US than in any other country.
I know it sounds like I am giving up or conceding to the issue but I am just trying to add some perspective on the other side of things
Question: Can one adjust the depth of the tail lights to align with the bumper without removing the bumper? On my last car (MINI), one could do so quite easily. Is it possible to do so on the W205?
I had to remove the front bumper cover on my C205 and it was easy. If it is easy to remove the rear cover on the w205 (which hopefully I won't need to) maybe I will write up a DIY post if no one beats me to it.
The assembly line is moving a feet per few seconds, and these people on the line dont have time to properly figure it out. They are simply clipping the bumpers in and then moving it on to the next vehicle. Who is to say what is "normal"? If they had more time or if they really cared, I am sure the taillights and the bumper could be made to perfect fit. However, that is clearly not the case and maybe it is okay to accept it as the norm
Maybe this is the answer! This picture shows what are the installation standards established by the MB-for all cars C Classe in all factories MB in the world and not only in Bremen in Germany !
I have a new C300 Luxury loaner while my car is in for the seat repair. The first thing I looked at was the tail light area. It was absolutely identical to the "step" on the panel/light fitment on my car ... exactly the same.
Even on an assembly line, the bumper cover should just pop into the correct position with no adjustments needed. The fact that almost all of these cars exhibit some degree of misalignment indicates, to me anyway, that the problem is in how the cover itself was formed. I don't know why it wasn't just made so it lines up flush with the fender panel.
I have a new C300 Luxury loaner while my car is in for the seat repair. The first thing I looked at was the tail light area. It was absolutely identical to the "step" on the panel/light fitment on my car ... exactly the same.
Even on an assembly line, the bumper cover should just pop into the correct position with no adjustments needed. The fact that almost all of these cars exhibit some degree of misalignment indicates, to me anyway, that the problem is in how the cover itself was formed. I don't know why it wasn't just made so it lines up flush with the fender panel.
Either the cover, or what's holding it there. The consistency of this 'defect' seems to point to a systematic thing in the US-built cars, rather than one-off's having this issue
I have a new C300 Luxury loaner while my car is in for the seat repair. The first thing I looked at was the tail light area. It was absolutely identical to the "step" on the panel/light fitment on my car ... exactly the same.
Even on an assembly line, the bumper cover should just pop into the correct position with no adjustments needed. The fact that almost all of these cars exhibit some degree of misalignment indicates, to me anyway, that the problem is in how the cover itself was formed. I don't know why it wasn't just made so it lines up flush with the fender panel.
This is certainly a QC issue with the Alabama plant. So, no surprise that the loaner has the same problem. MBUSA is unlikely to correct the problem until enough owners ask for a repair under warranty. I'm not convinced the bumper piece is the real culprit here. Check out the post above from "termzero". The results of the body shop work shows completely flush taillights and no "step", so the bumper will work properly IF aligned properly. You should show these photos to your dealer when he starts with the "they all look like this" excuse. Of course they all look like this! They were all built in the same damn plant.
I just picked up my C300 yesterday production of 12/23; the tail light fitments that are similar to termzero's after photos above. I personally thought that it is slightly out. So did Alabama plant got their acts together or just a fluke. Does most cars have this issue or is it hit or miss?
I just picked up my car today, production date of 1/8/15 and I echo that the tail light to bumper fitment looks close to termzero's after photos. The right light looks perfectly flush, while the left one sticks out a little bit, but not as bad as several of the pictures displayed here. This may add to the possibility that the plant has at least improved their processes at some point.
While waiting for the car to get prepped at the dealership, I walked around a few other C classes (all earlier build dates). All of them had consistent fitment issues.
I just picked up my car today, production date of 1/8/15 and I echo that the tail light to bumper fitment looks close to termzero's after photos. The right light looks perfectly flush, while the left one sticks out a little bit, but not as bad as several of the pictures displayed here. This may add to the possibility that the plant has at least improved their processes at some point.
While waiting for the car to get prepped at the dealership, I walked around a few other C classes (all earlier build dates). All of them had consistent fitment issues.
Go MBUSA! You are now only partially screwing up the rear bumper alignment. That might move you in front of Yugo in the quality control standings.
Sorry, it's better to laugh than cry. I can't remember ANY manufacturer messing up a great car so badly, first year build or not. All the reviews I have seen for the W205 are very good to outstanding. So, this is an excellent automobile. One that MBUSA could have built sales with. But instead they fail at the thing that has meant so much to their corporate legacy, Quality Control. I mean bleeding seats. Misaligned bumpers. Screeching brakes. And calling the latter two "normal"! Not what you expect from the "Best or Nothing " guys. Sure hoping this W205 mess will bite them in the azz. I keep hoping this stuff gets more media play because the truth should be told. And the truth is that MBUSA KNOWINGLY sold the unsuspecting public cars with defective seats. And they continue to do so. They need to realize that past laurels and Badge-whorism will take them only so far. There is a reason BMW has passed them in sales. I'm sure Audi is licking their chops, as well.
Go MBUSA! You are now only partially screwing up the rear bumper alignment. That might move you in front of Yugo in the quality control standings.
Sorry, it's better to laugh than cry. I can't remember ANY manufacturer messing up a great car so badly, first year build or not. All the reviews I have seen for the W205 are very good to outstanding. So, this is an excellent automobile. One that MBUSA could have built sales with. But instead they fail at the thing that has meant so much to their corporate legacy, Quality Control. I mean bleeding seats. Misaligned bumpers. Screeching brakes. And calling the latter two "normal"! Not what you expect from the "Best or Nothing " guys. Sure hoping this W205 mess will bite them in the azz. I keep hoping this stuff gets more media play because the truth should be told. And the truth is that MBUSA KNOWINGLY sold the unsuspecting public cars with defective seats. And they continue to do so. They need to realize that past laurels and Badge-whorism will take them only so far. There is a reason BMW has passed them in sales. I'm sure Audi is licking their chops, as well.
Ugh give it a rest. Lots of manufacturers have their share of issues. I actually think that MB has done a pretty good job of identifying the issues and quickly acting on them. Remember this?
01-16-2015, 09:08 AM
"The Best Or Nothing"? So far, it appears MBUSA is opting for the Nothing.
