zdonner

Strange... I guess we'll just have to see when something is actually published because it sounds like the folks working feet away from each other cannot get on the same page.

The woman I dealt with made a call to confirm the rumor to be false when I spoke to her and her two colleagues.

Won't know for sure until later.

DapperStyle

It's tough to say whether or not the reps at these shows are telling you the truth. They are told to keep various things close to the vest and would probably even shoot down the notion that there was a MY2017 C Class coming just to get you to go pick up a 2016.

autopal

Most of the reps at these shows are not full time Mercedes employees. Most are small time actors who are employed part time just to run the shows, same for all the companies, not just Mercedes. They really don't know a lot, just following a script, but, I can say for sure, the the C43 is coming, all the dealer principals were advised internally, and that's the reason the C450 coupe and E450 AMG have not yet been announced, because they will be available later this year as C43 AMG coupe, and E43 AMG, so yeah, the 450 name is dead.

autopal

http://gtspirit.com/2016/01/22/merce...-debut-geneva/

nvestr

Thanks - my order is supposed to show up in late March. By then, the C43 Coupe will be unveiled and we will know if it is mechanically identical to the outgoing C450 or not. Should give me the info I need to either take it or leave it...

topsider

I wonder why they announced the GLE450 AMG-Sport a couple months back but haven't released it yet? I'm talking about the proper GLE and not the coupe

bmoney12

According to the AMG Private lounge it can be a static 50/50 split. Depends on ESP and tranny setting.

The 'performance map' of the variable 4MATIC system is different in each of the modes...so in:

- C the focus in to provide a performance drive but with the highest efficiency, meaning that it will try and keep 2wd as much as possible and typically only send power to the back axle when front wheel slip is seen or the vehicle data (G forces, steering angle, etc.) says that power delivery would be better/safer with more power going to the rear axle...in this mode the torque bias is full variable

- in S the focus is on performance so there is a lot more bias sent to the rear not only re-actively based on what the front wheels are doing but proactively based on the vehicle data and how you are driving the car...in this mode the torque bias is full variable

- in ESP Sport & ESP Off - the torque bias is locked at a static 50/50 front to rear

topsider

interesting. i like that it does that. i find it kind of funny that they didnt use a system that can send more than 50 to the rear, 50/50 doesnt sound very sporty and can lead to understeer in theory

RTX

it's almost always "up to 50% front". This number is theoretically achieved or under serious traction circumstances. 36-40% is a more realistic figure.

Zand3rs

The new amg slc43 is in german configurator now. incase you didnt know!

tmoneyC450amg

I'm ready to say good bye to the C450..I do feel I'm more exclusive now being that I kinda own a "limited edition" series of benz now lol. MB should've had a serial on every 450 made

autopal

Can any knowledgeable member post links that explain, in layman terms, how a plug and play system, like this works? (BRABUS PowerXtra B30-410 performance upgrade for the Mercedes C 450 4MATIC.)
What's the difference between a flash tune and a piggy back system?
Thanks guys

TangoRed

A system that can only handle 50% of the power is typically much lighter and has smaller components. Always multiple considerations in decisions such as these...

BMWMB71

I think they will present the 9G tronic in the C43.

Gungaslow

If they put the 9g tronic in the c43, will it be faster than the c450? What exactly is the benefit of the 9g over the 7 speed they'll we have now other than 2 more gears? If they eventually come out with a 15g or 20g.. Why do you need so many gears?

AMGAffalterbach

Fuel economy is the reason for 9 gears

autopal

I'm pretty sure you wont see the 9G in the C450/C43 until the refresh model due in 2018

z28lt1

I'll say this, 9 seems to many for a sporty car. On back rounds and such, I'll manually shift the auto-boxes, and on my test drive of an Acura TLX with a 9 speed it was frustrating. Too many shifts to get to the "right gear. In daily driving, it won't matter, but in fun driving, more is not always better.

autopal

Agree, that's the reason BMW's regular auto is 8 speeds, but the dual-clutch the have in the M models are only 7 speeds

Gungaslow

That's what in saying.. Other than fuel economy I can't see the benefits of 9 gears in a sport sedan... If they make the torque converter more efficient that would be a plus so all the engine power gets to the wheels without loss.. I think they may have improved that by 4%...so maybe like 15hp at the wheels?

nvestr

Same - I've owned 2 TL's (2009 SH-AWD and 2012 SH-AWD Advance) and their decision to put that ZF 9 speed in the TLX was what killed it for me. I have the ZF 9-speed in my 2016 MDX and it is pretty decent for an SUV (even for spirited SUV driving), but I would not want it in a dedicated sports sedan. The ZF 9 speed uses a combination of 2 dog clutches and friction disks to move through the gears. There is an issue with requiring dog clutches to downshift quickly - it forces the ECU to reduce engine output momentarily during certain shifts.

In cases where you are at highway speeds and need to pass, the tranny is probably going to shift from 8th or 9th gear, all the way down to 4th to get a suitable gear ratio to accelerate hard. Going from 9 to 4 requires the engagement of both dog clutches. The dog clutches are electronically synchronized and like I said requires momentary reduction in engine output to synchronize everything for smooth downshifts. This results in some delays in downshifting, usually when you need it most.

zdonner

You plug it into a few sensors that fools your ECU into thinking you're not making enough boost and thus creates the environment for your car to produce more than factory, effectively overboosting and then the other system supplement by providing additional fuel and timing/retardation to allow the engine to work correctly.


IMO - I'm not against these but not a fan, if you want an easy to install setup for some extra power and want to spend as little as possible, then this is right for you.

If you want good power where you're supposed to have it then get the car tuned.

The piggy-back (Boost fooler) doesn't do anything to remap the ECU to handle situations outside of essentially WOT (Wide open throttle) environments as you won't likely reach the point of peak boost or the possibility of the now "over boost" from normal driving, this isn't to say you won't ever but it's less likely. So the ECU handles the situations as an anomaly and not because it's expecting it, as with a tune.


Hopefully that makes some sense.

AMGAffalterbach

^Good explanation.

I know a lot of piggy back ECUs work by reading data from the knock sensor to adjust timing (sometimes), boost, and fueling. This doesn't seem terribly safe to me, really. Sometimes a safer way of doing it is getting some kind of base map flashed then running a piggy back ECU, but after learning more about it, I'd tend to agree that either some type of protune or a full standalone ECU w/tune are always the safest options (the latter for crazier projects). Running a piggy back is probably similar risk to running an OTS flash tune with mods, maybe even worse.

I think with Mercedes engines, your best bet is going with a tune from one of the big performance companies like RennTech, Weistec, Kleemann, etc. They tend to increase boost while remaining conservative and safe. If you're running out of the turbo's efficiency range, there's no point in making more boost and risking your engine anyway. If you look at RennTech's tuning solution for AMG biturbo platforms thus far, they really extract all of the power you can out of stock turbos, downpipes, fueling, etc - any more would be pushing the limits of the anti-knock capability of pump gas and temperatures. It also matters WHERE you're making more boost in the rev range for maintaining best drivability and safety.

A lot of this depends on the platform, the ECU, the piggyback, and the adaptation capabilities of the ECU though.

nvestr

Straight from the horse's mouth - I asked MB Canada on Facebook about it :

Maritime

Here, haw!