So Much For That Whole "Burmester" Myth...
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2016 C300
Wouldn't count on it. You'll find those same exact speakers in a $110k S Class. If you spring for the $6400 3D surround system, you'll find even more of them and more amplification.
Congrats on the build though. That thing sounds awesome.
Congrats on the build though. That thing sounds awesome.
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From: Manchester, UK
BMW e89 Z4 sDrive 35i & MB S205 C200 AMG Premium Plus
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2016 C300
Yeah I should emphasize that for a premium OEM audio system (and one that adds relatively little to the price of the car vs what the base Audio 20 does) it's decent and I think most casual listeners will be perfectly happy with it.
Although (and this is unconfirmed) my bet is the Audio 20 uses the same speakers as the Burmester, just a lot fewer of them (4 of the 4", 1 of the 8" sub vs 7 4", 4 tweets and 2 8" subs in the Burmester)
Although (and this is unconfirmed) my bet is the Audio 20 uses the same speakers as the Burmester, just a lot fewer of them (4 of the 4", 1 of the 8" sub vs 7 4", 4 tweets and 2 8" subs in the Burmester)
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2016 C300
Nothing Audison makes is vehicle specific or "drop in" as far as the wiring goes. You'd use either the Prima 8.9, or a Bit One and a separate multichannel amp or amps. You'd still need to run 12v from the battery to the trunk, and then splice into each speaker lead you want to run on the new gear.
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From: Madison, Alabama
2015 C300 RWD AMG SPORT ~ Iridium Silver
Processor Available / Substitution
Is there not a solution which would allow for the JL 82 FIX to be deleted in favor of a different Processor than the Audison. $1200 is a lot for the 2 units.
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2016 C300
Originally Posted by 123Britt
Is there not a solution which would allow for the JL 82 FIX to be deleted in favor of a different Processor than the Audison. $1200 is a lot for the 2 units.
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From: Gold Coast, Oz.
C300 S205 AMG, GLA 45 AMG
I'd be f'ing ecstatic with mine if i could hear it over the bloody tyres and creaks klaus spent millions of Euro's engineering into my car..
Fair play tho cos he / she did a great job, it has heaps of creaks..
Mike aside from improved speaker reposnse, did the hush mat of the doors make a marked difference? thinking stereo off, highway speed driving..
No point taking cards off if the factory sound proffing is pretty good hear. I see they have coustic fabric sheet a standard..
Cheers
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2016 C300
I wasn't there when the cards were pulled but if the 205 has acoustic inner door panel liners it would be unusual. I know the W221 had none...big steel pie plates.
I don't think any one improvement knocks it out of the park, just incremental ones adding up. I did address a major dash creak this weekend that was the last piece of the puzzle. I think it's now as good as it's going to get and I'm happy with it. With the audio at 3/4 volume around town I hear nothing from outside the car normally. At 80+ on the highway I do get some wind noise creeping in.
What's creaking if you've been able to hunt it down. Are you getting it coming at you from the instrument panel/console area?
I don't think any one improvement knocks it out of the park, just incremental ones adding up. I did address a major dash creak this weekend that was the last piece of the puzzle. I think it's now as good as it's going to get and I'm happy with it. With the audio at 3/4 volume around town I hear nothing from outside the car normally. At 80+ on the highway I do get some wind noise creeping in.
What's creaking if you've been able to hunt it down. Are you getting it coming at you from the instrument panel/console area?
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From: Gold Coast, Oz.
C300 S205 AMG, GLA 45 AMG
Not to go too far off topic, but in a you tube video of the cards being removed the matting was there..
Creaks I have PITA around rear RHS seat / Boot cover (its a wagon), activated when the car is under torque, eg cornering or across en even surface (up a driveway...
Its chassis twist moving two adjacent surfaces, rear seats, plastic trim of the cover roller bar are key suspects..
The rest are in every door card around the LED strip ash wood inlay to door card, the center consule similar locations, the dash around the gauge cluster, the rear view mirror (only when adjusted) and the command screen again only when touched...
I have its first service coming up and after that i'm taking it apart and putting it together properly.. thank god 20 years auto manuf engineering i am reasonably confident i will be able to sort it out.. adhesive felt and dynamant at the ready...
I fitted magnaflow straight through (standard system in front) so i don't mind a little of the right sort of noise.. just not te falling apart noise..
Creaks I have PITA around rear RHS seat / Boot cover (its a wagon), activated when the car is under torque, eg cornering or across en even surface (up a driveway...
Its chassis twist moving two adjacent surfaces, rear seats, plastic trim of the cover roller bar are key suspects..
The rest are in every door card around the LED strip ash wood inlay to door card, the center consule similar locations, the dash around the gauge cluster, the rear view mirror (only when adjusted) and the command screen again only when touched...
I have its first service coming up and after that i'm taking it apart and putting it together properly.. thank god 20 years auto manuf engineering i am reasonably confident i will be able to sort it out.. adhesive felt and dynamant at the ready...
I fitted magnaflow straight through (standard system in front) so i don't mind a little of the right sort of noise.. just not te falling apart noise..
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2016 C300
Interesting. I know my shop had to use extra long panel clips after the Hushmat and even then there's a little gap, so it's packed in there pretty good. I distinctly remember the door sounded very hollow when closing before. Solid "thunk" now.
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Joined: Jun 2016
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From: Chicagoland
C450
No kidding. Killed me to come in with another $300 on top of everything else. The only way to find out would be to try a different DSP amp and see if its processing alone would strip out the VNC. My experience is only with the Prima so I can't help you, but if you figure it out post back.
Have you noticed any issues with the center and surrounds through the factory amp being ahead of the rest of the speakers connected to the prima by few ms? I'm planning on running everything through the 8 channels of the MS-8: 2-way front, center, sub, and paralleling the rear sides and surrounds.
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2016 C300
Originally Posted by KSP1138
I'm transferring in the system from my old car which includes a MS-8, 5 channel amp, and sub in the next few days so I'm hoping the MS-8 will be able to strip out the VNC. Do you know if your installer disabled the fake engine noises that play through the speakers? The wiring diagram shows input connections to the factory amp from an "engine sound control unit", with wire colors that correspond to the front and rear door speakers. I'm wondering if that was causing problems too. If I have similar issues I'll try disconnecting those inputs.
Have you noticed any issues with the center and surrounds through the factory amp being ahead of the rest of the speakers connected to the prima by few ms? I'm planning on running everything through the 8 channels of the MS-8: 2-way front, center, sub, and paralleling the rear sides and surrounds.
Have you noticed any issues with the center and surrounds through the factory amp being ahead of the rest of the speakers connected to the prima by few ms? I'm planning on running everything through the 8 channels of the MS-8: 2-way front, center, sub, and paralleling the rear sides and surrounds.
The Prima (and JL) has time correction adjustment so after it was set up on each speaker everything sync'd up. The center channel is pretty hot but the two rear surrounds don't put out much.
So the JL has 8 powered channels @ 20 watts. Are you able to use the extra 5 channel amp to take some of the outputs from the JL at line level so you still get the DSP but can add power?
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Joined: Jun 2016
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From: Chicagoland
C450
Thanks for posting the link to your build that included the wiring diagram. That was a huge help in figuring things out and saved me a ton of time.
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2016 C300
Got it, yeah you're right, the center/surrounds that are direct from the amp would be ahead. I got the tuning where I wanted it, everything blended in okay. The other speakers on the Prima overwhelm the 3 orphaned speakers on signal so that helps. If you want to do a write up on your system when it's where you want it I'll add it to the blog. Get some pics along the way!
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2016 C300
Not surprised. At least the S Class get actual woofers.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mHF7_WrNCnc
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mHF7_WrNCnc
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From: Calabasas, CA
2021 Mercedes E450 coupe
Burmester
Great post Mike.
Quite a time re-configuring your audio.
I have a 2018 E400 coupe.
In the options, one is "driving recommendation volume'. Do you have any clue what this does?
The default is set at 48. Can be changed up or down, but doesn't seem to make any difference either way.
Any thoughts ?
Quite a time re-configuring your audio.
I have a 2018 E400 coupe.
In the options, one is "driving recommendation volume'. Do you have any clue what this does?
The default is set at 48. Can be changed up or down, but doesn't seem to make any difference either way.
Any thoughts ?
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Joined: Mar 2018
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From: Chicagoland
W205 C63s
For those wanting to follow in Mike’s footsteps to add a DSP on the output side of the factory Burnester amp I actually found a T-harness that you can use to splice off the high level speaker leads without having to hack directly into the factory wiring. This way if you want to go back to stock you just remove the T-harness and plug everything back in.
Part number is CT10MC03 and looks like it fits the same connector for a Burmester amp as well as Harman Kardon.
I also found the Helix V Eight DSP can output 75 watts per channel so may reduce the need to bi-amp the footwell subs.
Part number is CT10MC03 and looks like it fits the same connector for a Burmester amp as well as Harman Kardon.
I also found the Helix V Eight DSP can output 75 watts per channel so may reduce the need to bi-amp the footwell subs.
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From: Michigan
2017 C43 AMG
For those wanting to follow in Mike’s footsteps to add a DSP on the output side of the factory Burnester amp I actually found a T-harness that you can use to splice off the high level speaker leads without having to hack directly into the factory wiring. This way if you want to go back to stock you just remove the T-harness and plug everything back in.
Part number is CT10MC03 and looks like it fits the same connector for a Burmester amp as well as Harman Kardon.
I also found the Helix V Eight DSP can output 75 watts per channel so may reduce the need to bi-amp the footwell subs.
Part number is CT10MC03 and looks like it fits the same connector for a Burmester amp as well as Harman Kardon.
I also found the Helix V Eight DSP can output 75 watts per channel so may reduce the need to bi-amp the footwell subs.
Newbie
Joined: Aug 2008
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From: Leszno, Poland
'14 E 220 d
Sorry for digging that old topic. But the history of making HK or Burmester sounds event better is very interesting for me 
I used to have W210 with standard audio, then another W210 with BOSE, what showed me how better this system can be. From that time I put OEM Bose system to my every other W210 (I'd got them a lot
). Times changed I've got in my parking CLK 200 with HK, 2010 E 250 CGI with standard upgraded to HK and another E 220 d with standard sound system.
Now I now, that Bose was the best audio I've ever had in my any MB car - but only if I merge it with some Pioneer/Carozzerria headunit.
In fact I noticed that HK/Burmester system is more about effects than about real sound quality.
I am reading all your fight with soundsystems Mike (including fighting with W221) and I am really glad that you are showing all of us what can be better or worse.
But one thing puzzles me. Isn't that true, Burmester is suddenly new brand of car audio for MB and all you are showing is HK-looks speakers, HK-looks amp... maybe, I am saying: maybe... Harman/Becker bought some part of Burmester to make HK still car audio supplier under new brand Burmster that customer can feel a little bit more luxury... but it is still crappy?
Now I am fighting with myself what should I do in my second E 220 d W212: go with aftermarket Pioneer DSP and aftermarket speakers or just buy used parts of HK, put it togheter and forget about the case?
I am not a fan with processors connected to processors because every component makes distorstions.
I used to have W210 with standard audio, then another W210 with BOSE, what showed me how better this system can be. From that time I put OEM Bose system to my every other W210 (I'd got them a lot
). Times changed I've got in my parking CLK 200 with HK, 2010 E 250 CGI with standard upgraded to HK and another E 220 d with standard sound system.Now I now, that Bose was the best audio I've ever had in my any MB car - but only if I merge it with some Pioneer/Carozzerria headunit.
In fact I noticed that HK/Burmester system is more about effects than about real sound quality.
I am reading all your fight with soundsystems Mike (including fighting with W221) and I am really glad that you are showing all of us what can be better or worse.
But one thing puzzles me. Isn't that true, Burmester is suddenly new brand of car audio for MB and all you are showing is HK-looks speakers, HK-looks amp... maybe, I am saying: maybe... Harman/Becker bought some part of Burmester to make HK still car audio supplier under new brand Burmster that customer can feel a little bit more luxury... but it is still crappy?
Now I am fighting with myself what should I do in my second E 220 d W212: go with aftermarket Pioneer DSP and aftermarket speakers or just buy used parts of HK, put it togheter and forget about the case?
I am not a fan with processors connected to processors because every component makes distorstions.
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W205
If you have one it will be used for the SOS button (and maybe phone calls?), if you have Audio20 and no SOS button then you have nothing underneath that grille.
