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Well the BFG's aren't the most attractive looking tire in the world, sort of chunky sidewalls in an 18," but they definitely deliver on ride quality and smoothness. Not sure there's a huge change in road noise one way or the other, although the pitch is lower. If guys are complaining their steel suspensions are too firm, the BFG Comp TA's effect on ride is like dropping an inch in rim size. Or if you're thinking of doing a Plus One on your 18", the tire would be ideal since that would cut down the size of the sidewall and give you a ride like you were still on the 18's.
On 18's in Comfort mode on AirMatic the ride and feel is very similar to my old W221 S Class. I actually dropped down to Sport mode in Airmatic and it's still very smooth and comfortable.
i have a loaded E-class loaner right now while my car is at the dealer getting non-runflats put on and boy oh boy does the H/K system in the E-class suck. the treble is so tinsel-y, the sub even with the bass set to 10 is unnoticeable, and the clarity is awful. i didn't used to think my dad's 14 e-class with this system was that bad, but that was before I had the Burmester. as far as OEM mercedes systems go, the Burmester is pretty damn good..
Having dissected the Burmester in the C and discovering no actual Burmester components (and a lot of the exact same tinny 4" Harman/Kardon speakers used in all of MB's HK systems dating back to 2006) I do have to give Burmester some credit for the tuning, which I'm guessing was their entire contribution in the W205.
Harmans EQ for their MB systems took those tinny speakers and made them even more shrill and hollow, while simultaneously neutering their subwoofers (also the same 8" shallow mount subs used in the C's Frontbass system).
The Burmester sounds better out of the box for sure, but it suffers from an incomplete speaker array...7 mid range, 4 tweeters, 2 subs and zero woofers... that leaves a huge mid bass gap. They tuned the subs to play way high to close the gap and rely on the resonating chamber to help widen the subs range but it's not enough.
Push the volume up on the Burmester and things go sideways in a hurry. Mids are overemphasized and too bright. Bass gets all loose and boomy. I'm almost done with the write up on the Audison/Focal upgrade. I've had it in the car for about a week and it's the best system I've done on a Benz so far. Really nice, clean and balanced.
Quite interesting. I have a set of 3 way K2 Focal's sitting around. I thought about doing sub upgrading. What kind of bass speakers are in the foot wells? I wonder if those can be upgraded easily. I would like a little more volume out of the system and better overall bass. You have me thinking now
Quite interesting. I have a set of 3 way K2 Focal's sitting around. I thought about doing sub upgrading. What kind of bass speakers are in the foot wells? I wonder if those can be upgraded easily. I would like a little more volume out of the system and better overall bass. You have me thinking now
8" shallow mount dual voice coil. The only upgrade I'm aware of that would fit without a lot of modification would be the Focal IFBMWS Sub, which is part of a product line Focal developed as drop in speaker upgrades for the BMW Harman/Kardon systems. They also make a 4" component speaker in the same family.
I'd probably leave the front subs as is, add an outboard amp and sub box and try to tune the front subs to play more in the midbass range with the new box handling low bass.
Here's a compact JL 8" x 2 ported box that's a good fit for the 205.
I originally had a sealed 10" back there but it was huge and difficult to tune.
Yeah I guess I need to figure out the full setup. So it is just 4 inch separates in the door, an 8 inch in the floor. Back doors I would imagine are similar to front doors, and then something in the rear deck. Not sure what if anything I would do with the center. I almost wonder if just dropping in my focals in place of the stock driver sup front would make a difference even on the factory amp. Really I would just like to get better and louder highs up front and much tighter and deeper bass, but I dont want to lose the surround feel in the car. For stock system it is te best I have ever heard and I use to install aftermarket radios for a living a long time ago.
Yeah I guess I need to figure out the full setup. So it is just 4 inch separates in the door, an 8 inch in the floor. Back doors I would imagine are similar to front doors, and then something in the rear deck. Not sure what if anything I would do with the center. I almost wonder if just dropping in my focals in place of the stock driver sup front would make a difference even on the factory amp. Really I would just like to get better and louder highs up front and much tighter and deeper bass, but I dont want to lose the surround feel in the car. For stock system it is te best I have ever heard and I use to install aftermarket radios for a living a long time ago.
Right, in the doors 4" mid range and 1" tweets all passive. In the dash a 4" "full range" (not really) center and two 4" full range surrounds in the rear parcel shelf. Two 8" pancake subs in the front foot wells. The Focals are very efficient and would be fine on the factory amp but you really need to defeat the factory EQ, repurpose the front subs as conventional woofers and add a sub to bring the lows back in. I used a JL Fix 82 on the high side of the factory amp to get a flat signal and defeat the VNC circuit, fiber optic into a Prima 8.9 for processing (cross overs, EQ, time correction, phasing and level) and amplification.
I used a channel for each door, then bridged the six remaining, two for each footwell sub, then an outboard amp and sub box on the Prima's 9th unpowered channel.
I left the center and rear surrounds on the factory amp and blended them in using the Prima. Wasn't cheap but sounds great. Night and day vs stock and stock wasn't horrible to begin with.
Right, in the doors 4" mid range and 1" tweets. In the dash a 4" "full range" (not really) center and two 4" full range surrounds in the rear parcel shelf. Two 8" pancake subs in the front foot wells. The Focals are very efficient and would be fine on the factory amp but you really need to defeat the factory EQ, repurpose the front subs as conventional woofers and add a sub to bring the lows back in. I used a JL Fix 82 on the high side of the factory amp to get a flat signal and defeat the VNC circuit, fiber optic into a Prima 8.9 for processing (cross overs, EQ, time correction, phasing and level) and amplification.
I used a channel for each door, then bridged the six remaining, two for each footwell sub, then an outboard amp and sub box on the Prima's 9th unpowered channel.
I left the center and rear surrounds on the factory amp and blended them in using the Prima. Wasn't cheap but sounds great. Night and day vs stock and stock wasn't horrible to begin with.
I think I will start with the sub you have and replace the speakers with my Focals as a start. I do like your plan and setup, I will be in touch lol.
Can you remove the sub easily? In case I need to haul stuff
I wish the center speaker was more pronounced. I remember when I was a little kid and my dad had a Volvo V70 R wagon, it had a very pronounced middle speaker which you could manually switch on or off and what a difference it made with it on.
Sometimes when I'm in my car I lean in on the center armrest to hear what the stereo sounds like when you are in the dead center of the car, and it sounds great. I wish the middle speaker balanced it out in that way a little more. I'm sure the Burmester 3D surround system does that since it has speakers in the middle of the roof.
EDIT: found a pic on google of the old V70 R center speaker, back when that was a new thing
Last edited by topsider; Apr 20, 2016 at 04:05 PM.
I wish the center speaker was more pronounced. I remember when I was a little kid and my dad had a Volvo V70 R wagon, it had a very pronounced middle speaker which you could manually switch on or off and what a difference it made with it on.
Sometimes when I'm in my car I lean in on the center armrest to hear what the stereo sounds like when you are in the dead center of the car, and it sounds great. I wish the middle speaker balanced it out in that way a little more. I'm sure the Burmester 3D surround system does that since it has speakers in the middle of the roof.
EDIT: found a pic on google of the old V70 R center speaker, back when that was a new thing
Yeah, that center in the Volvo was large enough to function as a full range speaker. The Burmester center is very mid heavy and hollow sounding. It's more prominent with Surround mode on, and it's helpful in preventing the signal from the front door Mids/Tweets from sounding too focused and localized.
I think I will start with the sub you have and replace the speakers with my Focals as a start. I do like your plan and setup, I will be in touch lol.
Can you remove the sub easily? In case I need to haul stuff
I'm doing a similar thing. Waiting for the Focals to arrive. I'll just change the front ones this time. Can't afford to do the whole amp upgrade thing...
Maybe could change the sub down the line.
I have the stock audio system, Audio20. It's a piece of s...
I don't know if the Focals can help the factory amp and EQ.
Yeah, that center in the Volvo was large enough to function as a full range speaker. The Burmester center is very mid heavy and hollow sounding. It's more prominent with Surround mode on, and it's helpful in preventing the signal from the front door Mids/Tweets from sounding too focused and localized.
regarding surround with stock burmester EQ - with front seats only turned on, it sounds like the sound is coming at you from in front of you, which defeats the point of surround, where as with all seats selected it doesn't really sound like surround. I have it set to all seats but they did not do a good job programming the surround IMO
I'm doing a similar thing. Waiting for the Focals to arrive. I'll just change the front ones this time. Can't afford to do the whole amp upgrade thing...
Maybe could change the sub down the line.
I have the stock audio system, Audio20. It's a piece of s...
I don't know if the Focals can help the factory amp and EQ.
I don't know that the Focals will be getting enough power to really wake up. I'd probably do two sets of decent coaxials that weren't real power hungry in each door. That solves the lack of tweeters and tweeter enclosures. I really like the MTX 4", around $80 a set. Very full and warm sounding for a 4".
Maybe an outboard sub/amp after that. Meanwhile, you can EQ out a lot of the issues with the Audio 20 using a $4.99 IPhone app called EQu by Elephant Candy. I posted a write up and suggested curve here somewhere.
regarding surround with stock burmester EQ - with front seats only turned on, it sounds like the sound is coming at you from in front of you, which defeats the point of surround, where as with all seats selected it doesn't really sound like surround. I have it set to all seats but they did not do a good job programming the surround IMO
Well yeah. Two channel stereo has no surround encoding in it so any surround effect is just a matrix that "guesses" where stuff should go. I use it on Front mainly to raise the sound stage and de-localize the front door Mids and highs.
The rest of the back wall reverberation stuff I can do using the rear door speakers and putting some delay in the signal with the Prima's time correction function.
I don't know that the Focals will be getting enough power to really wake up. I'd probably do two sets of decent coaxials that weren't real power hungry in each door. That solves the lack of tweeters and tweeter enclosures. I really like the MTX 4", around $80 a set. Very full and warm sounding for a 4".
Maybe an outboard sub/amp after that. Meanwhile, you can EQ out a lot of the issues with the Audio 20 using a $4.99 IPhone app called EQu by Elephant Candy. I posted a write up and suggested curve here somewhere.
The MTX's look too deep to fit into the door. And the problem with the app is that I play music mostly from the USB drives. I already bought the Focals. Just waiting to get them. If there's no improvement I have to start saving for the amp.
Well the shops new "install photographer" didn't get much on the car. These show the Hushmat treatment on the doors before the Focals went in, and the location of the Prima on the right inner trunk, and the JL Fix 82 and JL sub amp installed in the trunk cavity beneath the factory amp rack.
Factory amp is up top under the black perforated cover.
All of the components are very compact and low heat generators. Hushmat was applied to all four doors, although we left the stock 2 ways in the rear doors.
Last edited by Mike5215; Apr 20, 2016 at 07:47 PM.
So is the factory amp in the trunk? If so that makes running wires to speakers far easier. Curious if they have separate wires from the amp going to both the mid and tweeter. Although if I ran all 8 channels I was thinking of doing this
2 channels to Focal 2 ways in front doors using the focal crossover (The drivers are close enough together that I'm not worried about separate time alignment
2 channels to subs in floors
2 channels to some kind of separates in the rear
2 channels to back deck
then use the output for the sub
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Slideshow: A one-of-one U.S.-spec Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster became even rarer after a factory-backed transformation at McLaren's headquarters.
