When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Well it'll output more power into 2ohm if it's rated for 4, and it will run hotter, but it shouldn't cause damage. Does it have a thermal shut-off? A lot of them do.
I have one of those 8" subs. If I can remember where I left my voltmeter I'll check the resistance on it and post.
I'm a total nub but found this:
Leistung Maxpower: 4 x 60 Watt RMS @ 4 Ohm + 90/160 Watt @ 4/2 Ohm Woofer
Leistung Midpower: 4 x 35 Watt RMS @ 4 Ohm + 60/100 Watt @ 4/2 Ohm Woofer https://www.carhifi-store-buende.de/match-m-5dsp
Correct me if I'm wrong, so it will run hotter since it is rated for a 4, while stock is 2? Taken into account that you are actually using the stock speakers. As you mentioned the krs 100's are 4ohm, so the problem would be with the rear speakers? changing them up to 4ohm ones would solve the trick to overheating? But in doing so we'd need a stronger amp ? ...just letting my brain flow a bit xD trying to learn lol
It's not a matter of over heating, just that a byproduct of dropping resistance is more power output, and more heat. Most amps can run safely this way, and a lot are 1 ohm stable, meaning you could operate them safely at under 2 ohms.
For tuning ease, mixing resistances can create problems in that the lower resistance set will usually be a lot more prominent.
My set up has 4 ohm Focals up front and likely two ohm OEM in the rear doors. With the Prima I can adjust levels of each individual speaker so if there was a disparity (It's been awhile since I set it up) it was easily compensated for.
Found some audio shop who did an upgrade on the base audio system, using below (with some additional information freely translated:
front tweeters: Exact! HX20ET (can't even find them online o.O, saw other tweeters at ~160EUR per pair (HX20T4))
Front/rear doors: GLADEN ONE 100 BMW ~140EUR/each = 560EUR
Subwoofer (original location): GLADEN 200 SLIM woofer 2 Ohm with a RMS of 150 Watt -> subbass (~120EUR)
another sub under te pedals: 13 CM woofer out of the German Maestro composet(?) -> kickbass (can't find price, no idea out of which set)
dsp amp: Match PP82DSP ~700EUR
all in price: EUR 2099 (seems they did it for another w205 before...)
Thanks for the tip on that subwoofer. So they installed that GLADEN in exchange for the stock one above footwell? And I assume they figured-out how to set the W204 harness for W205.
Just got my Focal KRS100 components installed yesterday. Very happy with the results especially the tweeters running off the stock amp.
I know both Gladen and Focal make replacements for the 8" shallow mount sub. I looked into the Gladen when I was doing the W221 and they didn't look much more substantial than OEM. They were much less money though.
The Focals were my first choice but at the time they were $1,000 for a set so I passed. But I just got a pair for $350 shipped on eBay from the UK. Should be here in the next few days. I'll update after the install.
Thanks for the tip on that subwoofer. So they installed that GLADEN in exchange for the stock one above footwell? And I assume they figured-out how to set the W204 harness for W205.
Just got my Focal KRS100 components installed yesterday. Very happy with the results especially the tweeters running off the stock amp.
I can confirm most of what Mike is saying.
The main issue is the freq. range 120 to 300Hz. The 8'' is playing them and it's way too high for it. It's messy and sloppy. There are two options of doing the upgrade:
1) Get a nice DSP amp (I would recommend Match M 5DSP - as good as the Prima but you can get a plug&play harness for it), change the front speakers (I did Focals) and get a simple coax speaker in the back (Match has decent ones for BMW integration). This way you can cut the woofer at 120Hz and leave the rest to the door speakers. You have all of the freq. range to play with and you can set timings as well (as Mike did).
2) Replace the door speakers the same way as above, run them from the HU amp and use the 5th pair of wires as the input signal for an active subwoofer kit. I would disconnect the stock woofer then as it would still mess up everything with it's crappy 250Hz reproduction. The problem here is that the stock amp still only feeds the doors with 250Hz+ (you would still miss the 120 to 250Hz, but would have a nice crisp low bass)
I decided to go for the first option (and it's more fun to play around with the DSP software ) The second option is a bit cheaper but doesn't fix all of the problems.
Just for clarification: the front an rear speakers outputs are full range ? Or is there an internal crossover?
In case there is a crossover, how can I overcome the "missing" 0 to 250 Hz?
That's what I'm trying to find out. I have an appointment on Friday to go through the car and see why the resistance I measured is less than 1ohm. Could be a crossover somewhere...
Front tweeters: Exact! HX20ET (could find HX20T4 online) Front/Rear doors: GLADEN ONE 100 BMW (coaxials)
-> This would mean 6 tweeters?
-> Other/better recommendations for front? (Focal KRS 100?)
-> Other/better recommendations for rear? (Focal drop ins?)
Sub (replacement passenger footwell): GLADEN 200 SLIM Sub (seemingly there is space behind driver's pedals): 13CM Woofer out of a German Maestro comoset
-> Shop wants to set the 8" up as a subbass(?)
-> Shop wants to set the 13cm up as a kickbass(?)
-> Other/better recommendations for the 8"? (Focal?)
-> Do you recon I still need a sub in the trunk with the above setup?
DSP Amp: Match PP82DSP
-> They advise this one over the Match M5 DSP as they would have 6 channels
-> Other/better recommendations for the DSP amp? (Prima?)
That's what I'm trying to find out. I have an appointment on Friday to go through the car and see why the resistance I measured is less than 1ohm. Could be a crossover somewhere...
In that case I am thinking that Audison BIT DMI can be a solution, that's in case there is a MOST output from the audio 20.
( I am thinking of an heavy integration utilizing prima 8.9 and prima 1D, speakers will be morel based)
That's what I'm trying to find out. I have an appointment on Friday to go through the car and see why the resistance I measured is less than 1ohm. Could be a crossover somewhere...
If there's a "crossover" it'll be a capacitor glued to the back of the speaker itself. To circumvent it for measurement you'd need to put a multimeter right on the poles of the speaker. I think they're going to be 2 ohm and are the exact same speakers as the Burmester. I can't envision a speaker less substantial than those that wasn't made of tin foil and tissue paper.
My guess though is that the 4" are high-passed right in the HU itself. The 4" Burmesters are, and then a capacitor glued onto the tweeter serves as the crossover between the 4" and the tweet, or as Burmester/MB describes them, "warm, natural sounding analog crossovers".
I envision the initial meeting between Burmester and MB on the 205 to consist of MB dumping a Tupperware tote of crappy speakers and a tiny amp onto a conference table and saying "See what you can do with this." And Burmester saying "But ziss is total garbage!". And MB saying "We know. We're going to make up the difference in branding and by creating the world's most ornate speaker grilles. Then Burmester said "But how do metal speaker grilles help the sound?" And the MB guys laughed and said "It doesn't! Actually, it causes rattles and buzzing. But people see those spectacular grilles with the Burmester name in beautiful script font and just presume there must be something wrong with their ears!"
Then they all went out for some steins of beer.
Anyway, the reason this Match project is important is that, if it works, I'm going to start recommending prospective C buyers skip the premium package if they're buying it mainly for the Burmester, spend $375 for the Black Ash trim so the ugly black grilles blend in better. I guarantee the Match/Focal (or Audison/Focal) upgraded A20 sounds better than the stock Burmester.
In that case I am thinking that Audison BIT DMI can be a solution, that's in case there is a MOST output from the audio 20.
( I am thinking of an heavy integration utilizing prima 8.9 and prima 1D, speakers will be morel based)
There is no fiber optic from the A20. Standard speaker level wired connection. The Bit End, according to my local Audison shop/installer, are reliability nightmares with such a high failure rate they refuse to install them anymore.
Even in the W221 S Class, we left the signal digital fiber optic into the amp, and pulled signal from the high, analog side for the Prima. The Prima has a built in step down transformer. On the A20 a single Prima 8.9 is all you'd need. Or possibly the Match, which looks like it would be an easier DIY install with the available plug and play harness, and less expensive hardware.
I wish to be sure I have a full range from the speakers output, prior to any changes.
Setup will be :
1. Center dome mid and Tweeter 400Hz high pass passive.
2. Front 3 way 8" 4" 1" at passive 100Hz and 3000Hz.
3. Rear 2 way passive at 2200Hz.
4. Optional prima mono + free air subwoofer mounted on the rear parcel.
All will be mounted on as the brum ones with CNCd adaptors.
I'll add pics, and a guide. Posbly a drop in set with the adopters much better then the brum pack.
I don't think you'd have full range from the factory HU. I think the crossovers are hard baked into the unit. The output from the HU to the door speakers will be high passed. The output for the front sub will be low passed.
You wouldn't want to band pass the front three way passive from 100 to 3000. 100 is a little too low for the front subs and in any event the tweets should be run up to 20k. You want to treat the front subs like traditional woofers, and send the really low stuff to a separate sub and amp.
Not sure what 2200 Hz means with respect to the rears. You mean you'd hi pass them at 2200? They can go as low as 800. 1000 is a safe cut off.
Generally it's impossible to guess on paper where the tuning will end up. The only way to know is to install the system and tune it, by ear, and see where you end up. It's almost never what you guessed it would be during planning.
I'd ignore the center dash entirely. Leave it stock. It's a bit player.
The rear parcel shelf would have to be seriously modified (cut) for a sub. Even then you'd have to Hushmat the crap out of the entire rear passenger compartment to quell rattles,I'd just put a box in the trunk. Cheaper and more flexibility in choosing the box type and drivers.
Never heard of Brum One or CNCd adapters. Link?
Are you planning on using a Prima DSP or another DSP amp combo?
Rear 2200hz refers to the tweeter high pass mid is going to actively LP at 80.
Center - I am aiming for a good 2 seater sound stage.
Subwoofer - agree, therefore it's optional.
Machining (CNC) I am going to design and do by myself.
Prima 8.9
Brum = Burm refers to burmester
It's a big issue in case the output isn't full range.
Can anyone confirm ?
Neither the Burmester or A20 has a full range signal from the amp or HU. They have exclusively mid/hi going to the doors, and exclusively lows going to the footwell subs.
On the center, since the A20 doesn't get one you might need to disassemble the dash extensively to get wiring to it. Not sure it'd be worth it. Do e you currently have the A20 or the Burmester? Are you adding an aftermarket DSP amp?
On the mounts, no need to go crazy custom machining adapters. (Plus available depth is already limited.) If your new speakers are a 4 hole square mount, just cut off two mounting ears and fashion a tab. Here are the 4 hole Focals in a three hole mount:
Two holes will line up, the tab at the bottom installed in the third (bottom) hole secures the mount.
If there's a "crossover" it'll be a capacitor glued to the back of the speaker itself. To circumvent it for measurement you'd need to put a multimeter right on the poles of the speaker.
My guess though is that the 4" are high-passed right in the HU itself. The 4" Burmesters are, and then a capacitor glued onto the tweeter serves as the crossover between the 4" and the tweet, or as Burmester/MB describes them, "warm, natural sounding analog crossovers".
I tried measuring the stock speakers that I removed, and on the speaker poles it gives 6,5ohm. The same as I got on the subwoofer.
Now that's interesting. A while ago I got 2,1 on the wire connectors (before the capacitor) and now 6,5ohm behind the capacitor on the actual speaker poles.
Well I finally have good news. I tried the amp and it works perfectly. Connected the P&P harness (Merc to ISO) and the ISO cable to the amp, and it all works.
Everything is P&P apart from the subwoofer connection. You need to cut the 5th pair of wires going out of the Merc harness and connect it to the supplied subwoofer cable for the Match amp.
A tip: you need to reconnect the central console for the HU to work.
I've been playing around with the setup for the last two hours and I made some progress but it's still not perfect. But here are a couple of things I noticed:
- The woofer (which seems to be 6,5'' in an 8'' enclosure) sounds a bit better but it needs to be changed. I managed to cut the low frequency distortions (high pass 48Hz, low pass 267Hz) but there's still something missing.
- I don't think I'll change the rear stock speakers. I set them up as midrange (200 - 3200Hz) and they do that part ok (you can hardly hear them, but that's ok).
- The Focals are nice and crisp, but they don't go low enough. I thought 120Hz was lower than it actually is
So basically, the Match P&P amp works, Focals are great, but the bass is missing so the subwoofer (if you can call it that) needs to be replaced. That'll be my next step.
Nice work. Can you snap a pic of the "sub"? I think you'll end up with a sub box in the trunk to handle low to mid bass. Check out that dual 8" ported box I used. Somehow you've got to reintroduce mid bass.
I believe the Focals can play down to 800, possibly as low as 400. I was able to "fill the hole" using the sub box and some time consuming EQ adjustments. For awhile I didn't think I'd be able to get it but eventually it came together.
Had another talk with the audio shop, as said previously their plan was:
replace 8" sub (or as said here 6.5" in an 8" enclosure) with gladen 200 slim
add 5" from German Maestro in the driver's footwell
BUT!
It seems that way only if it was a manual car, automatic has space to fit a 8" in driver's footwell.
So they will replace the 8" in passenger's footwell, and add an 8" in driver's footwell. According to them the setup will be great, and eliminates the need of a sub in the trunk.
Also I had the option to fit a 2-way in the rear doors as well as my aluminium panels are getting replaced by black ash ones and they will add the burmester ones (just for contrast lol). But the shop said it won't add much improvement to fit a 2-way over the gladen coaxial?
Can you snap a pic of the "sub"? I think you'll end up with a sub box in the trunk to handle low to mid bass. Check out that dual 8" ported box I used. Somehow you've got to reintroduce mid bass.
I don't have any pics of the stock sub. Haven't bought a replacement yet. I'll probably go for the Focal IFBMW, if it's possible to buy just one. I don't want to run cables all the way to the back.
06-23-2016, 10:15 AM
) The second option is a bit cheaper but doesn't fix all of the problems.
