Toshio

Hello, I'm considering getting a C43 Sedan within the next year. I haven't personally owned a German car but my father has had Audi's and Mercedes and had nothing but issues with them. He would never touch a German car again after the amount of issues.

Yes these were older models. Anyways, coming from Infiniti & Lexus of course reliability was always top notch especially from Lexus. Currently I have a Q50 Hybrid Sport. I want to purchase the C43 not lease. The typical comments I get are nobody buys German cars because once the warranty is up they become money pits, especially German turbo cars.

What are your thoughts? I would be paying cash for the car outright. How has reliability been with Mercedes I know the C450 has had some Tranny issues but they will be going to the 9 speed which is supposedly better. Anything else I should be concerned about? I'd like to keep this car for at least 5-8 years.

NYbenzzz

i'm coming from infiniti as well, a g35x.

i leased my c300 because of the exact same reasons you stated, plus resale value is a joke on mercedes unless you have a classic.

the difference between japanese and german (for me at least):

-relibility is clearly superior on japanese, but this is because they are so much more simpler mechanically than german counterparts.
-Resale value is also clearly superior on japanese, as they have less parts that break.
-standard features also a huge plus on japanese cars, i mean we don't even get leather seats standard.

but.......here comes the germans......
-fit and finish is absolutely methodical on my c300 compared to my g35x. the infiniti was full of wind noise, center console rattles, door panel rattles, etc.
-Brand prestige (don't tell me this is not a factor in purchasing a benz).
-interior materials are top notch.
-exterior design and interior design are unmatched in this segment (c class, 3 series, a4, is, q50, tlx, jaguar xe)
-it just feels good to drive this, i can't explain this


i'm glad i leased, i just got into a little fender bender that ended up being a $12k estimate. i can only imagine how the value of my current car will tank once they try to re-sell it with a record on it.

Toshio

Thanks for your feedback, what sort of reliability issues are common with new German cars? I know with my fathers Audi S4 he needed a new Engine, and with his old 190E he needed both an Engine and transmission. Ended up just giving both cars to our neighbor and buying an accord. lol

NYbenzzz

also, keep in mind this:

if you take care and do maintenance to the letter, german cars will last you forever.
look at how many 70s and 80s benzes you see still on the road. i see plenty of them still running strong with over 200k miles.

the problem is the cost of maintenance. for that amount, i'd rather buy another car.

Toshio

Aren't those older Mercedes were more reliable because they were made simpler than today? What is the average maintenance costs? Shouldn't the routine costs be on par with Lexus? Have you been hit hard? Would you get another Benz?

MASSC450

This is a big reason why I haven't bought Japanese for a while. Honda, Toyota, Acura, Lexus...their design IMO have really gone down hill these past 10 years, especially Acura, Honda, Toyota, and Subaru...down right boring if you ask me.

The downside of owning a Mercedes?...they cost a whole lot more money to own, that's for sure, that and a lot of equipment that is standard on Japanese cars are options on German cars. One of the options that I like to harp on Mercedes for is the hands free electric trunk opener/closer for $250. Really Mercedes...you couldn't price that option into a $50,000 vehicle?

PaulE550

Most new cars today, if properly maintained, will last equally well. Research the specific model you might be interested in thoroughly, including any options you are considering as some have issues, before making the purchase decision. I personally only buy new.

The two problems that a lot of folks seem to run into, at least from what I've seen so far with German cars, not just Mercedes, is that they:
a) Buy a used car that has finally depreciated enough to the point where they can afford to buy it. Typically five or more years old. Some of these cars were very well maintained and they will last a long, long time if the new owner continues to properly maintain them. All cars, not just the German brands, will have a part fail once in a while. Some folks in this category don't budget for repairs. Just because the $60K, $70K, $80K or $90K car has deprecated to $20K to 40K doesn't mean the OEM parts to repair the car have gone down in price. So at the first instance of any part failure, these folks either dump the car for a Honda Civic or curse German cars for being unreliable.

Other used cars in this category were leased vehicles, where the owner did the absolute bare minimum maintenance required by the lease. These vehicles also, in some cases, were abused to the max, since the "owner" was just going to turn the car back into the dealership at the end of their lease. These are the cars that typically develop real costly repair issues down the road.

2) Every manufacturer has what would be referred to as a lemon model. Not by intentional design, but by the fact that it's a brand new model and the bugs, so to speak, haven't been worked out of the model yet. This is of course why you should NEVER buy the first year of any new model car. People who buy these brand new, first year models get to experience the joy of frequent visits to the dealership's service department.

Just as an FYI, my other current car is an 18 year old Lexus that I also bought new. I generally keep my cars for 10 to 15 years. Yes it still runs as well as the day I bought it and I have maintained it religiously over the years. Things have none the less failed during that timeframe due to simple component failure. I've had to replace the water pump, AC compressor and starter, which is a real joy to do in this particular Lexus model, in addition to the usual batteries, tires, brakes, etc. that are part of owning any car. I know lots of Lexus owners who have also had to do expensive repairs over the years on their cars. So the notion that Japanese luxury cars don't break or require expensive maintenance is a nice story, but it is just a story.

You really can't compare the maintenance and repair costs of a Toyota Camry or Honda Civic to any luxury cars, whether they be German or Japanese. Buy what you can afford to maintain properly. The interior and exterior quality, the overall fit and finish, the road handling characteristics of higher end cars compared to the basic design and simple point A to point B transportation aspects of the low end Japanese models is an apples to oranges comparison. A MB is generally a lot cheaper to properly maintain than a Porsche, Jag or any of the Italian luxury cars. It's a bit more expensive than a Lexus, but not by much considering how superior the MB is in a number of categories.

Hope this helps.

PaulE550

Agree. The design of Japanese cars today is boring as hell. You would think that if they can't come up with good designs themselves, they would at least sub-contract a design firm from outside Japan to come up with something that would excite potential buyers.

Toshio

Thanks Paul, very helpful info. So being that the C43 is really just a name change but getting a new transmission, this would not technically be a MY1 car anymore correct? All other components should be the same? How has the 9 speed been with the Coupe?

PaulE550

True the C43 is just a name change. So if that was the total extent of any change, in essence a marketing rename of the car, the car would NOT be considered a first year model. Minor marketing or cosmetic changes don't introduce potential major new electrical or mechanical variables that could impact vehicle reliability, which is what I look for when researching a car. However, the 9 speed transmission is a major new change this year. So I would look at any car that comes with it as essentially being a first year model. It's not like you can do research on how well this particular new transmission has held up when mated to the current engine in the C43. Probably nothing wrong with the 9 speed, but we don't have any sufficient data yet to determine if there are any long-term reliability issues.

Mike5215

The current crop of Benz seems to be Mercedes lowering their standards (but not their pricing) vs the older cars that the brand's reputation was actually built on. I view the present S/E/C as Mercedes Lite. My 205 develops a new interior creak or rattle every week.

I've owned three S Class in succession and a 190E away back. The 190 was a real, go 200,000 miles, built like a tank Benz. Dull and dumb by today's standards but really quiet, solid and reliable. Those days are gone. Now you buy a Benz CPO or lease them new and dump them before the warranty ends.

My 05 S500 had $21,000 in warranty repairs over three years. My 04 S430 over $11,000. My 10 S550 about the same. The last ticket alone was $6,000. These were very clean, perfectly maintained (over maintained actually) cars in great physical condition. The problem is MB started replacing heft with tech. The tech breaks often and it's very expensive to repair, indie or no. Parts still cost a fortune. I've never lost money on the extended CPO ($4500) warranty.

They're great cars when they're running right, but there is no way I'd own one out of warranty. Once you've had one you'll never go back to the Asian brands so choose carefully, and plan out the warranty (and extended warranty) when you buy. Unless you have a lot of disposable income and a great sense of humor.

Toshio

Yikes, but you're problems are with the S class. I've heard like the 7 series Bimmers they are the most unreliable and the C and E classes are the most reliable. Any opinion on that? I don't plan on getting a bunch of nanny features that can cause potential electrical issues like active lane assist and all that.

mcbc220

I don't own an S class, but other members of my family have owned both C, E and S. Right now, I'm still driving a 1994 C that I bought used after college, and planning to buy either a C or a BMW 4 in the fall. My C is from a different era of Mercedes vehicles, but it has been flawless. Anecdotally, I can say that the C and E are more reliable cars. The S can hit you in the pocketbook repeatedly the way Mike describes. The lower models won't be cheap to fix, but they won't be that expensive, nor, anecdotally, are repairs as frequent.

The current C class had some major problems at release, but it seems to be in the middle of the pack right now, as best I can tell from this forum, TrueDelta, and JD Power (for what JD Power's rankings are worth).

It comes down to cost/benefit: do you value the things a Mercedes does better than a Lexus enough to take on the risk of potentially more frequent repairs? I drive about 5-7k miles per year right now, so I'm willing to take that gamble with my next purchase because my car will probably be getting into the higher mileage range around the time that it would also just be getting old and I would be ready to move on. If I drove 20k per year and wanted a luxury car, I might feel differently.

mo11

i've had both Japanese and recently since 2005, been leasing mercedeses. I also have friends that drive korean cars. i drove a toyota for over 20 years (literally drove that till the wheels fell off). when japanese cars first came into the market, no one would touch them. now, people say its the most reliable cars on the road. when korean cars came same thing, no one would touch them... now, people swear they'd rather drive a kia than honda... i remember back in 2002, having to convince a friend when she needed a "reliable", affordable daily driver for her 135mi/day commute to get a kia. those cars are bulletproof, i said. she drove that until she got her 2nd kia... hahaha! she had 285k mi. when we donated that and her 2nd has over 185k mi. Now her whole family drive kias. and she's my wife...! How awesome is that!?!

i also have a neighbor who bought a brand new honda civic a few years back... nothing but issues! in 3 months, he got rid of it and got a toyota and had it for a little over 4 years. then he traded it in and he's back in a honda. so far so good he says...

Reliabilty to me, no matter how careful you are and well maintained a car may be, will always depend on luck...

If I were asked which ones of the cars i've had the most fun with driving? it'll be the cars i've driven since 2005. i've always leased my mercedeses not because of how expensive parts and labor can be after the warranty was up but rather how much nicer the newer models are... The technology packed in these newer models, the horsepower they now have, the comfort... back when i was a teenager, i though my 65hp toyota was fast, hahaha!

anyways, in your case i don't have an advice. I do have a suggestion, if you're planning to keep it for 5-8 yrs. depending on how you intend to purchase the car, you might wanna try leasing evry 4yrs. that way in the same amount of time that you've had the same car, you could have had 2... what do you think?

hans007

i don't really get why people lump car attributes by their parent company''s country of origin


i mean audi, and bmw and mercedes are completely different companies. japanese car companies are entirely different.

but people just lump them into "german cars" .

this is roughly as stupid as saying, "american stuff" and assuming every dodge ram should be as good as the iphone.

That said , in my car history, i've had a nissan which had some minor electrical issues. and infiniti that i only had for a year, so it was reasonably trouble free. and acura that had a starter die after 2 years. an audi that had a lot of oil issues, and a bmw that has been completely trouble free . My cousin's 7 year old mazda 3 he just sold because it had transmission issues and broke down 2-3 times. ITS JAPANESE it was mind boggling.

do i lump the acura mazda, and nissan together with each other as japanese? no , they are just cars that broke. Does my mind almost tear itself apart that a japanese car broke? YES. YES IT DOES

Toyotas seem to be relatively reliable, but I don;t think that makes me want to buy a nissan anymore because their parent companies are in japan..... and i dont think i want to buy a mercedes any less because i once had an audi. A lot of honda's with V6s in the last decade have had transmission problems, and a lot of nissan's with CVTs have had issues. Everything toyota makes is boring. I guess this makes all nissans and hondas boring too, they are from japan.

I have a C43 sedan on order. Its being built in alabama, out of parts mostly designed in germany with an german made engine and transmission and many other parts. Do I blame america if it is put together badly , or the german management's policies on quality control, I DONT WHICH COUNTRY TO BLAME MY CAR PURCHASES ON, TRUMP HELP ME , I"M CONFUSED!

Sheepy

Same.

I almost went with an Infiniti Q50 over a C300 but the Q50, while stylish on the outside, had such an ugly and cobbled together interior that it killed my lust for the car.


Also agree, again especially on interiors. BMW is laughably bad compared to Audi and MB.

MASSC450

I have to admit, I actually looked at the Lexus IS 350 F SPORT, but you could only get the older 6 speed transmission with AWD...and not the newer 8 speed.

NYbenzzz

i could care less about the transmission, but that rear end of the IS...........looks like a kid's toy. similar to the lambo huracan, but i guess being a lambo saves that ugly rear end.

i was seriously thinking of leasing a lexus RC350. but the dealers in ny were refusing to give me any discounts or deals. they were asking for $550 a month with 10k miles a year with a $4k deposit.

the benz ended up being $500 a month with same deposit 12k mile a year free 3 year maintenance and...........it's a benz. so i said F U lexus, lol

Sheepy

Lexus' are killer, but like the other big three Japanese luxury brands, they way over engineered their infotainment, to the point where on a Lexus it almost seems dangerous to try and use.

Mike5215

Lexus design now, in and out, is too WTF for me. Can't do it, even though the cars themselves are probably fine. Hyundai does a better job IMO.

mcbc220

There are some crazy discounts in my area for the IS right now, so I drove one on Monday. The exterior is what it is, but I was surprised to find that the interior was a lot more pleasant to be in than pictures would make you think. Yes, more plastic than wood, but it feels more honest for the car's price point. Materials are excellent, and all of the surfaces that matter are padded. Nice steering wheel, too.

The car itself drove fine. The test drive loop was straight up and down the freeway, so there was no way to tell what the car was capable of, but it felt about the same as previous-gen C classes, and better than the current BMW 3 for everyday driving due to the 3's lousy steering (I'm sure this would change on a curvy road, though). Vs the current C, the Lexus feels so much heavier and more solid that it's hard to compare. The C feels like a much lighter car. That makes it feel more agile and fast, but less like a mercedes. (disclaimer: I love cars that feel like tanks, so this was a good thing to me. Light cars don't make me think "sporty," but "cheap." I know, I know.) If you took away the logos, I would have thought the IS was the C and vice versa. Steering was nicely weighted and had decent feel. Slightly heavier than Comfort steering in a C. Handling was neutral and predictable. The C dances a bit more, but for everyday driving, the IS was just fine, and on par with previous generation Mercedes.

Bottom line: I'm actually considering the car now. It has most of the things I actually want, and the lower purchase price (assuming dealers are willing to negotiate) and better reliability make it a more sensible alternative for now. Mercedes has the looks and the brand history. And it seems like the brand as I knew it from 80s/90s cars isn't the same as the brand today.

piredon11

Find a C450 and negotiate a good deal on a 3 year lease. Or even a C43, if you're set on it. You can decide yourself over that period whether you like German better than Japanese. If you like it, buy out the lease at the end. Chances are at least decent you can get the buyout reduced at lease end by working with the dealer. If you don't like it, or have too many reliability issues, give it back. You'll pay a little more this way, over the long term, but consider it an insurance policy. If you buy and trade it in after 3 years for another brand, you'll probably spend more in total. You do have more risk of reliability issues with German brands. And I don't think there's a heck of a lot you can do to avoid it in terms of choice of model, etc. I've never had any problems, but many have.

Your major downside after this experience is you'll be used to German build quality, feel, design and materials quality. It's hard to go back. I'm on my 3rd German lease, and I always go back to test the Japanese brands when my leases come up. Because they are so much better priced, and maybe something has changed since the last time. But they feel cheap in comparison.

Toshio

Thanks, the questionmark reliability is really the only thing holding me back. It seems more people than not have issues eventually. What sort of problems come up more frequently? What if I don't get all the tech options. It seems to be the more loaded with tech the more problems, ie. Lane assist etc. I'm more concerned with being left on the side of the road or expensive blown engine or transmission repairs. I don't have time to keep going back and forth to the dealership. Also is it true that C450/43 Brakes/rotors cost $4500-$6000 to replace?

MASSC450

Maybe if you get the job done at a Mercedes dealership.

One can get OEM C63 (non-CERAMIC BRAKES) front rotors for $130 each, front pads for $214, rear rotors for $103, and rear brake pads for $152...so that's only $832 right there. As for labor, $0 if you do it yourself, maybe $400 at a Mom & Pop shop.

http://www.mbpartscenter.com/auto-pa...ine/brakes-cat

More like $1,300 for everything including tax.

Why anyone would WANT to install OEM Mercedes C450 brake pads with all that brake dust is beyond me.

Toshio

Nice, thanks. That's about what I pay now. What about the suspension? Is Air Suspension and option? I really do not want that.