Happy Halloween to me -_-
11-07-2016, 11:58 AM
#27
MBWorld Fanatic!
Checking back in on this. There is a way to go if the carrier won't budge on liability. It's kind of a nuclear option although I have used it and prevailed in the past. You're under no obligation to make an insurance claim against the other driver. His liability insurance exists to indemnify (pay) someone who suffers property damage as a result of his negligence. 99% of the time the carrier steps into its insured's shoes and becomes the point of contact and negotiates the settlement on their insured's behalf.
But as a claimant you have no obligation to bother with his carrier at all. Your beef is with him personally. You can file a small claims suit for the damage up to whatever cap small claims has in your jurisdiction. Get your own estimate and if you can get all of it or most of it in small claims, go for it.
Here's what happens with the carrier when suit if filed on their insured:
-You file your claim and a sheriff knocks on his door at 6 am to serve him the summons. (Always pay extra for sheriff's service. It's totally worth it.)
-The guy makes a panicked call to his insurer asking WTF?
-The file is transferred to their litigation department.
-Nine times out of ten, litigation reviews the claim and kicks it back to the adjuster with instructions to pay it.
-If not, under the policy they owe their insured a defense. The adjuster cannot appear on his behalf. They have to hire an attorney to defend him. That's $150 an hour, plus travel time and appearance at least twice (one for mediation, one for trial).
-Typically you'll get a mediation date, and if it doesn't settle, a court date. You're required to participate in the mediation but you are not required to reduce your claim a dime if you don't want to. I don't, because if the dick-heads pushed the thing to the point of litigation, it's too late to get a deal.
-Prepare your case with the statutes, photos, scene diagrams, repair estimates, police report, and your theory of liability. Trial will typically be a low-key affair privately in the judge's chambers around a conference table. You'll be able to examine the claimant under oath. (His attorney can do the same to you.)
-Upon hearing the evidence, the judge will make a ruling. Sometimes it's then and there, sometimes it takes a couple of days. Regardless of Geico's adjuster's opinions, the judgement is the final and binding decision on what they owe you. Now, in addition to owing you for the repairs, plus your court costs, and in addition to paying an attorney a couple grand for the defense, and their insured missing a day or two of work, they get the honor of writing you a check.
I've done this exactly once, against a State Farm insured where the carrier flat denied liability. I got paid in full.
But as a claimant you have no obligation to bother with his carrier at all. Your beef is with him personally. You can file a small claims suit for the damage up to whatever cap small claims has in your jurisdiction. Get your own estimate and if you can get all of it or most of it in small claims, go for it.
Here's what happens with the carrier when suit if filed on their insured:
-You file your claim and a sheriff knocks on his door at 6 am to serve him the summons. (Always pay extra for sheriff's service. It's totally worth it.)
-The guy makes a panicked call to his insurer asking WTF?
-The file is transferred to their litigation department.
-Nine times out of ten, litigation reviews the claim and kicks it back to the adjuster with instructions to pay it.
-If not, under the policy they owe their insured a defense. The adjuster cannot appear on his behalf. They have to hire an attorney to defend him. That's $150 an hour, plus travel time and appearance at least twice (one for mediation, one for trial).
-Typically you'll get a mediation date, and if it doesn't settle, a court date. You're required to participate in the mediation but you are not required to reduce your claim a dime if you don't want to. I don't, because if the dick-heads pushed the thing to the point of litigation, it's too late to get a deal.
-Prepare your case with the statutes, photos, scene diagrams, repair estimates, police report, and your theory of liability. Trial will typically be a low-key affair privately in the judge's chambers around a conference table. You'll be able to examine the claimant under oath. (His attorney can do the same to you.)
-Upon hearing the evidence, the judge will make a ruling. Sometimes it's then and there, sometimes it takes a couple of days. Regardless of Geico's adjuster's opinions, the judgement is the final and binding decision on what they owe you. Now, in addition to owing you for the repairs, plus your court costs, and in addition to paying an attorney a couple grand for the defense, and their insured missing a day or two of work, they get the honor of writing you a check.
I've done this exactly once, against a State Farm insured where the carrier flat denied liability. I got paid in full.
11-07-2016, 12:18 PM
#28
Super Member
Thread Starter
Thanks for the feedback. After I sent the letter that you helped me with I got a call from the supervisor Friday morning that they are re investigating the accident. I am moving forward with repairs and if they find me not liable they will refund me. IO have an appointment with the damage adjuster tomorrow at 9:30 am.
12-05-2016, 03:25 PM
#29
Super Member
Thread Starter
Update:
1. I would like to thank Mike for all of his help, I really appreciate it!
2. Still don't have my car back - hopefully sometime this week, came out to be around $10k worth of damage.
3: After 5 weeks of going back and forth with GEICO, the MA State Police, the MA DOT, I was finally able to secure a crash report written by the trooper who came to the scene of the accident. As you might remember, GEICO placed me at 90% fault when it clearly wasn't, so the last 5 weeks have been spent trying to prove my case. After providing GEICO with plenty of photo evidence of where and how I was hit, they said the only thing that would change their mind about who was at fault was a crash report written by the officer who came.
a. I was initially told by the MA state police that it would come in the mail to my house within 7-10 business days - it never came, so..
b. I called the MA state police and kept getting this very nasty woman (lol - no reference to American politics intended) who kept telling me that it will come in the mail, blah blah blah
c. I called for the 3rd time and asked to speak to the highest ranking person at the barracks, got him on the phone, was also short with me and said it comes from the MA DOT.
d. I went on the DOT website and paid $30 to "run a search" for the crash report, no such report existed it said.
e. I called the barracks back and asked wtf and he told me that unless a car was towed or someone was injured, there would be no crash report. Back to square one I assumed, I called GEICO and let them know, I also gave them the phone number of the barracks so they could speak to the officer who came to the scene.
f. 1.5 weeks go by and I call GEICO and say what's the deal, apparently they had tried calling for the officer 3 times but he was never available. Ok..
g. On the 22 of November as I am walking out the door to catch a flight to Florida for Thanksgiving, I see a piece of mail from GEICO that is an official appeals form that goes to the state of MA with a section on why I believe I was not at fault and a blank box for me to draw how the accident happened. Also they want a $50 check for the pleasure of reading my appeal, so I mail that form in Monday the 28th when I get back to Boston with the check enclosed. The next day, I receive and email receipt that they have deposited my check, and wouldn't you know it, a PDF of the crash report was enclosed.. I open it and noticed that my statement to GEICO mirrored WORD FOR WORD what the cop had said in his description, and that the other drive was issued a citation for "Failure to Yield" - how nice, the ******* somehow neglected to mention that to GEICO (also his insurer). I sent it over to GEICO, somehow took them a week to review it, my adjusters supervisor (I was dealing with her because I wasn't getting anywhere with the adjuster) said that we will wait and see if the other drivers adjuster will decide to change her decision about who's at fault. DECIDE to change???? The report is written by a cop for gods sake clear as crystal, whatever. I got a call today from the supervisor that they agreed that I have 0% fault in the accident, so this nightmare is over.
Moral of the story is never let uninformed idiots decide your fate - jk, lol but actually, they claimed they used google maps to decide who was at fault, wtf?? when there is serious money on the line? give me a break. Also, I'm pretty sure the MA government just tries to get more money out of you before handing over the crash report - seemed pretty odd.
1. I would like to thank Mike for all of his help, I really appreciate it!
2. Still don't have my car back - hopefully sometime this week, came out to be around $10k worth of damage.
3: After 5 weeks of going back and forth with GEICO, the MA State Police, the MA DOT, I was finally able to secure a crash report written by the trooper who came to the scene of the accident. As you might remember, GEICO placed me at 90% fault when it clearly wasn't, so the last 5 weeks have been spent trying to prove my case. After providing GEICO with plenty of photo evidence of where and how I was hit, they said the only thing that would change their mind about who was at fault was a crash report written by the officer who came.
a. I was initially told by the MA state police that it would come in the mail to my house within 7-10 business days - it never came, so..
b. I called the MA state police and kept getting this very nasty woman (lol - no reference to American politics intended) who kept telling me that it will come in the mail, blah blah blah
c. I called for the 3rd time and asked to speak to the highest ranking person at the barracks, got him on the phone, was also short with me and said it comes from the MA DOT.
d. I went on the DOT website and paid $30 to "run a search" for the crash report, no such report existed it said.
e. I called the barracks back and asked wtf and he told me that unless a car was towed or someone was injured, there would be no crash report. Back to square one I assumed, I called GEICO and let them know, I also gave them the phone number of the barracks so they could speak to the officer who came to the scene.
f. 1.5 weeks go by and I call GEICO and say what's the deal, apparently they had tried calling for the officer 3 times but he was never available. Ok..
g. On the 22 of November as I am walking out the door to catch a flight to Florida for Thanksgiving, I see a piece of mail from GEICO that is an official appeals form that goes to the state of MA with a section on why I believe I was not at fault and a blank box for me to draw how the accident happened. Also they want a $50 check for the pleasure of reading my appeal, so I mail that form in Monday the 28th when I get back to Boston with the check enclosed. The next day, I receive and email receipt that they have deposited my check, and wouldn't you know it, a PDF of the crash report was enclosed.. I open it and noticed that my statement to GEICO mirrored WORD FOR WORD what the cop had said in his description, and that the other drive was issued a citation for "Failure to Yield" - how nice, the ******* somehow neglected to mention that to GEICO (also his insurer). I sent it over to GEICO, somehow took them a week to review it, my adjusters supervisor (I was dealing with her because I wasn't getting anywhere with the adjuster) said that we will wait and see if the other drivers adjuster will decide to change her decision about who's at fault. DECIDE to change???? The report is written by a cop for gods sake clear as crystal, whatever. I got a call today from the supervisor that they agreed that I have 0% fault in the accident, so this nightmare is over.
Moral of the story is never let uninformed idiots decide your fate - jk, lol but actually, they claimed they used google maps to decide who was at fault, wtf?? when there is serious money on the line? give me a break. Also, I'm pretty sure the MA government just tries to get more money out of you before handing over the crash report - seemed pretty odd.
12-05-2016, 04:07 PM
#30
MBWorld Fanatic!
Gotta love the way Massachusetts always has it's hand out looking for more money...
On another front, I'd also drop Geico just out of principle for giving you a hard time.
On another front, I'd also drop Geico just out of principle for giving you a hard time.
12-05-2016, 06:33 PM
#31
MBWorld Fanatic!
Nice! Geico owes you for the crash report and appeal fee.
They're also wrong about the police officer's opinion being a determining factor. It worked in your favor in this case but as a general rule for future accidents, the only entity capable of affirmatively deciding liability is a trier of fact, which would be a judge or a jury. That's it. Everything else, including the police report, is just guessing, which is why police reports are not admissible in court.
The cop's opinion is just that, another guy's opinion after the fact unless he's a trained accident re constructionist. Now if he actually witnessed the accident, that's different. The opinion of an independent witness (not a driver or passenger in either car) holds the greatest weight, more so if it's a cop. Absent an independent witness, and with conflicting facts of loss, and with property damage that supports either side, as an adjuster you back your insured.
Geico would have done that if they didn't also own the other claim, but as an insured you're not supposed to be penalized because both adjusters work for the same company. They each need to treat the other as an adversary, as they would in any other claim. Can't share info without expressed permission from both parties. Can't cook up some stupid investigation in which their asses never get up from their desk. Google Image. That's a new one.
Glad it worked out. Go get your $50 back.
They're also wrong about the police officer's opinion being a determining factor. It worked in your favor in this case but as a general rule for future accidents, the only entity capable of affirmatively deciding liability is a trier of fact, which would be a judge or a jury. That's it. Everything else, including the police report, is just guessing, which is why police reports are not admissible in court.
The cop's opinion is just that, another guy's opinion after the fact unless he's a trained accident re constructionist. Now if he actually witnessed the accident, that's different. The opinion of an independent witness (not a driver or passenger in either car) holds the greatest weight, more so if it's a cop. Absent an independent witness, and with conflicting facts of loss, and with property damage that supports either side, as an adjuster you back your insured.
Geico would have done that if they didn't also own the other claim, but as an insured you're not supposed to be penalized because both adjusters work for the same company. They each need to treat the other as an adversary, as they would in any other claim. Can't share info without expressed permission from both parties. Can't cook up some stupid investigation in which their asses never get up from their desk. Google Image. That's a new one.
Glad it worked out. Go get your $50 back.
12-06-2016, 09:33 AM
#32
Super Member
Thread Starter
Nice! Geico owes you for the crash report and appeal fee.
They're also wrong about the police officer's opinion being a determining factor. It worked in your favor in this case but as a general rule for future accidents, the only entity capable of affirmatively deciding liability is a trier of fact, which would be a judge or a jury. That's it. Everything else, including the police report, is just guessing, which is why police reports are not admissible in court.
The cop's opinion is just that, another guy's opinion after the fact unless he's a trained accident re constructionist. Now if he actually witnessed the accident, that's different. The opinion of an independent witness (not a driver or passenger in either car) holds the greatest weight, more so if it's a cop. Absent an independent witness, and with conflicting facts of loss, and with property damage that supports either side, as an adjuster you back your insured.
Geico would have done that if they didn't also own the other claim, but as an insured you're not supposed to be penalized because both adjusters work for the same company. They each need to treat the other as an adversary, as they would in any other claim. Can't share info without expressed permission from both parties. Can't cook up some stupid investigation in which their asses never get up from their desk. Google Image. That's a new one.
Glad it worked out. Go get your $50 back.
They're also wrong about the police officer's opinion being a determining factor. It worked in your favor in this case but as a general rule for future accidents, the only entity capable of affirmatively deciding liability is a trier of fact, which would be a judge or a jury. That's it. Everything else, including the police report, is just guessing, which is why police reports are not admissible in court.
The cop's opinion is just that, another guy's opinion after the fact unless he's a trained accident re constructionist. Now if he actually witnessed the accident, that's different. The opinion of an independent witness (not a driver or passenger in either car) holds the greatest weight, more so if it's a cop. Absent an independent witness, and with conflicting facts of loss, and with property damage that supports either side, as an adjuster you back your insured.
Geico would have done that if they didn't also own the other claim, but as an insured you're not supposed to be penalized because both adjusters work for the same company. They each need to treat the other as an adversary, as they would in any other claim. Can't share info without expressed permission from both parties. Can't cook up some stupid investigation in which their asses never get up from their desk. Google Image. That's a new one.
Glad it worked out. Go get your $50 back.
