skhan007

This sound system is a quantum leap forward compared to my old ride (which was 12 years old). I'm really digging what I'm hearing and music sounds great. I know some of you have done upgrades and probably have a more discerning ear than I do.

Curious what music you guys are listening to that shows the dynamic range of this audio system? I'm an 80s metal guy, but I was interested to know what other styles are out there that you guys like, which may showcase the lows, mids, and highs of this sound system?

Mike5215

Well, it has some shortcomings, more relative to its design and components than the source material. MB's decision to take all of the woofers out of the doors, replace them with very bright 4" midrange speakers, delete the rear deck subwoofers and put all of the low end into the "Frontbass" module makes it a challenge to get solid lows or punchy midbass.

The speakers themselves are pretty flimsy as well, driven by a small factory amp. All in all the Burmester in the 205 sounds okay if your expectations aren't too high and you don't push the volume up too much. To my ear, based on other systems I've had, it was not satisfactory stock.

Depending on your source, there is a way to get substantial improvement without spending any real money. If you have local files on an Iphone or Ipod Touch, get the EQu app ($2.99) and create a custom equalization curve that bumps the midbass and cuts down the mids.

Here's a screen grab with my notes:

mo11

Danse macabre, Op. 40

l3it3r

Solomon Grey
https://itun.es/us/eXMgbb

Igotsoul4u

I think the sound system is incredible. I was blasting Master of Puppets today which I have been listening to on every stereo I've owned for 25 years. It sounded better then ever. Super clear but thick low end. Smooth highs and an overall natural eq. I am a recording engineer and my mixes translate perfectly. No exaggerated bass, muddy mid range, or extra sizzle. I think it sounds great.

Deadmau5 is great for bass heavy dance/electronic music. My wife was playing some R&B and the bass sounded perfect to my ears.

flycaster

Now, as it seems we have a couple of folks who know something about sound, let me ask why I can't get feeling that the cabin is filled with sound with my Burmester? Right now I'm comparing sound fullness between my 2017 coupe and a 2013 ATS Lux with its standard Bose system when listening to HD radio. With the ATS I get a feeling of fullness. The only time the coupe gets a little better is when it is playing loud or when I have disc with music recorded from iTunes. I have fiddled with all of the Bur's controls, but nothing seems to work. Lastly, I did bring this up with my dealer and he got me the "sound" concierge. He agreed that the sound wasn't full, fiddled with some of the Bur's settings, all to no avail. So, if you guys can't come up with a fix, perhaps you could tell me how to approach the dealer so that he recognizes there is a problem and it isn't just "subjective" me?

Mike5215

Interesting! Have you been the engineer on any recordings we'd be familiar with?

Igotsoul4u

I was fortunate to work with a lot of incredible artists. My main gigs were with Jennifer Lopez, Mary J Blige, and the rapper Fabolous. It sounds more interesting then it actually was. Lots of sitting around for music that I generally thought was subpar. I had more fun as an assistant engineer where I got to work with some heavy duty artists like Elton John, Rod Stewart, Mariah Carey, eminem, and many others. I decided to leave the business as it started to crumble making work scarce and checks hard to nail down. It was a crazy 12 years.

Mike5215

It sounds hollow, thin and shrill rather than full because unlike your ATS there are no woofers in the Burmester. Just seven (!) 4" midrange speakers, four tweeters and two "subwoofers" in the footwells playing through carpet and padding. I put subwoofers in quotes because they're tuned to play up into the midbass range to fill the space left by the lack of regular woofers (the common 6" variety). Plenty of mids and highs though.

The footwell subs aren't especially stout but they're (theoretically) reinforced by using the cavity in the firewall as a resonance chamber, which is why they get loose and boomy when you add bass or volume.

Terrible design for a "premium" system IMO. But the fella who's been listening to Metallica for twenty five years seems to like it.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Try playing audio files thru an IOS device using that app I mentioned. It should help quite a bit.

skhan007

Wow, I'd love hear stories about that job and working artists. Sounds amazing.

skhan007

Mike5215- I think I'm still in the honeymoon phase with my C300, having it for about 9 days so far. I'm a former gigging musician, so I'd like to think I have a good ear for this sort of thing. That being said, playing out live in front of a Marshall stack may have had "some" affect on the acuity of my hearing . I'm stepping into my C300 after driving a 12 year old SUV with rather mediocre sound. So, the Burmester, by comparison, is stellar. I realize what you're saying about the use of mid-range speakers and the lack of a proper sub for low frequencies.

For experimentation purposes, do you think you would hear an appreciable difference if you were playing a track that was a lossless file (FLAC or ALAC at 1100Kbps) vs. a good AAC sound file (320 Kbps)? Also, any difference between Bluetooth fidelity vs. using a USB? Not sure if the stock Burmester, in your opinion, would sound any better with these approaches.

I'm using an iPod and also my iPhone with Spotify. Those Spotify songs are saved as either high or extreme quality (which I think maxes at 320 Kbps ).

flycaster

So, Mike, from what you are saying, if don't do any mods (including the IOS,) I'll just have to learn to live with the poor sound effect, eh? I'd like to do the app you suggest, but I don't use a smartphone (a personal preference.)

Mike5215

Ha! I was a working drummer for many years. Honestly I'm surprised I can hear at all. In my experience, the lossless files encoded at CD quality (44,100 htz and 16 Bit Depth) actually expose more of the system's shortcomings (highs and mids are brighter, lows are looser). Try playing a CD in the car. The output from a CD track vs a FLAC lossless rip of the same track should sound identical.

The Burmester seems to sound better with the high bitrate lossy formats (MP3, AAC). I prefer AAC 256kbs but MP3 320kbs is fine too.

Bluetooth does add some file compression via SBC although the bitrate for SBC at 327kbs makes it unlikely you'll notice a huge difference on lossy stuff. Bluetooth tends to thicken the midbass (not always a bad thing) and add a little "shimmer" to the ultra highs (mostly hi hats and cymbals). When you play music from your device over BT, the digital decoding is being handled by the device itself, whereas via a USB hard dock the car's DAC is handling the decoding. BT does impart some artifact but it may not be an undesirable artifact if that makes any sense.

If you own a library of digital music, you can pick up a used Ipod Touch cheap on Ebay and run that app. If not I'm afraid you're stuck with playing with the COMAND tone controls. Switching Surround to ON and Front, setting Bass and Treble to 10 and Mids to -10 may help. What kind of stuff do you like to listen to?

skhan007

OK, makes perfect sense, actually. I'm going to try the CD, per your suggestion. Here's what I have in mind: I have the newest Santana IV CD and that's a really well-produced album. Lots of percussion beyond just stock drums; it has glocks, maracas, bongos, etc. Lots of layers with keys, chorus vocals, and of course, layered guitar tracks, including nylon and steel-string. In terms of a fidelity test, I can A/B/C the same album between CD, USB iPod (320Kbps), and Bluetooth Spotify (Bluetooth 320 Kbps called their "extreme" bit rate). I'll see what kind of compression I can hear, if any. Wish I had a proper spectrum analyzer beyond the one on my phone, which I don't trust. Anyway, I'll my ears be judge. I suspect the difference would be minimal at best. For consistency, I'll use a flat EQ for all three.

z28lt1

Mike5215 is a huge asset to this forum and seems to be one of the few that has actually torn the system apart and actually held the speakers in his hands. He's been kind enough to do detailed write-ups, including pictures, that are a huge help to anyone who is interested in audio in the C class, and what we've learned about the components from him is invaluable.

That said, this system seems to have better sound than the individual components would suggest as several members have posted how much they love it. in fact, Before Mike opened things up and saw the components he praised it and described it as having "great fidelity and detail". I don't think anyone is comparing it to a true high-end aftermarket system, and from Mike's findings we would have hoped for better quality components, but the actual sound seems pleasing to most, so don't feel bad or blame your ears if you like it, many do. If no one knew what speakers were actually used, I think it would be praised more, although I do think many seem to notice it's lack of strength in the lower range, although that has been somewhat common on OEM systems in my experience.

i don't think I tried Bluetooth in my W205, and each implementation on both the source and destination matters, but in a different vehicle, there definitely was a noticeable difference between Bluetooth and a directly wired connection. Mileage may vary with a different phone or different vehicle.

As for going lossless, I always say it is a complete waste (compared to a good, high quality, high bit-rate compressed file) on a stock vehicle system. The W205 isn't the quietest car on the road, and between engine noise, tire/road noise, wind noise, HVAC noise, the difference is very likely not noticeable and certainly not meaningful. If you listen to a good aftermarket system parked in your garage,I might buy it, but if you plan on driving your car...

Hapa88

The best settings I could find to my preferences were 6/5/6 on the Bass/Mid/Treble, Surround setting ON and for ALL seats, and the Fader to -1 or -2 (slightly to the rear). I found that the slight rear bias in the fader fills up the cabin slightly better but still leaves a little to be desired.

In terms of sound quality overall of the Burmester in our C300 coupe, I agree with many people's assessment that it's overly midrange focused and has a "boomy" bass sound. In another vehicle of mine, I have an 8" slim powered subwoofer with high level inputs tapped into the factory stereo under my drivers seat and was curious if anyone else may have tried installing one on the C300. Sound greatly improved the factory system on that car by allowing me to turn down the factory bass going to the factory speakers, so they could concentrate on the mids & highs. Something similar to this I think would greatly improve the bass response in the Burmester system if we set the crossover somewhere in the 80 - 100 Hz range.



https://www.amazon.com/Soundstream-U.../dp/B0085CAYZ6

Shoutout to Mike5215 for the EQu app. I've been looking for a manual equalizer since Apple introduced the iPod years ago! I'm surprised they don't have a "custom" EQ setting where I could go in and modify as I wish! None of their factory presets ever suited my needs.

Mike5215

Out of the box and compared to the Harman Kardon system in my previous car (S550) I felt the Burmester in the 205 had promise. It definitely sounded better raw than the HK.

Given it's promising start I expected to get away with maybe an EQ app and some fiddling with COMAND. But as soon as I started tuning the deficiencies became glaring. Once we opened the car up and I saw the actual components I understood why I was bumping up against tuning problems.

That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with owners who enjoy the stock system. If it's not pushed too hard, depending on how ballsy the source material is, it might be totally acceptable. I think an individuals experience with previous systems (better or worse) color their expectations. I also think the term "Burmester" and the fancy speaker grilles play a role in how people perceive the quality of the system out of the gate.

Mike5215

I think you're on the right track with the powered sub. Not sure where in the cabin it could go since clearance under the seats is tight. I've used the Infinity BassLink in my prior W220s for bass reinforcement, in the trunk.

Also, I just started playing with an app called "Audio Xciter" that sounds amazing. I'm not usually a fan of phone based DSPs but this one sounded great right out of the box. Not an EQ, and I'm still not sure WTF it does or how all of the controls work, but if you just set it to Medium and turn it loose the improvement in openness and the sense of a larger soundstage is obvious. I've only had it for a day and I have noticed it crashes once in awhile but I'd like to know how it sounds on a stock Burmester if you want to give it a try.

Hapa88

I did some more fiddling around with the settings for the C300 Coupe and found better settings by switching the Surround setting to ON and to FRONT seats. Then adjust the Fader to -3 or -4 (more to the rear).

With the Surround setting to FRONT the rear speakers end up working similarly to rear speakers in a home theater system where only the "Inverted" audio (the ambience, instruments, and no vocals) is sent to the rear speakers, while the front takes the typical stereo information. (Turn to the fader all the way to the rear and you'll hear what I'm talking about.) It's the same effect you hear when you pull your headphone cord halfway out of the jack on your iPod and don't really hear the vocals anymore.

Anyway, I find that even though the front soundstage is still very much forward (gets even worse with the Surround ON & Front), you can even it out a bit by moving the fader bias to the rear and with the added ambience it gives the overall impression that the sound fuller.

Lastly, remember that each source needs to be changed individually, so you basically need to make the changes in all sources, one by one.

skhan007

Cool, I'm going to try this tomorrow and see what it sounds like!

Igotsoul4u

Funny thing is I am mostly listening to the engine. Can't get enough of that purr which leads to a small story from the music biz...Catwoman grabbed my ***. Eartha Kitt was a frisky old lady.

skhan007

OK, tried these setting while listening to both bluetooth 320Kbps songs as well as satellite radio. Sounds pretty good! I've got the rear speakers faded to -3 and the surround setting to "front." I think this sets up for a nicer distribution of sound, over all.