I´m the happy owner of a new C220d Station Wagon.

As many have discussed I´m underwhelmed at the Audio system. And looking at some updates.

I´ve read the threads and how to´s in here, so just need some basic inputs.

Looking at two scenarios.

1. Keep it simple
- Add 2x Mercedes "Burmester" 8" woofers
- Add 2x Mercedes W221 Soft dome tweeters; https://www.ebay.de/itm/Mercedes-W221-W211-C216-C219-Lautsprecher-Hochtonlautsprecher-A2218208202/152577241858?epid=1614280732&hash=item23864ff302:g :TL8AAOSwgApXB8ZO
- Keep existing 4" std. speakers
- Add a small DSP amp ala Helix Match, Audison Prima, Axton A580 etc.

2. Upgrade components
- Add 2x Audison Voce AV 1.1 tweeters: http://www.audison.eu/index.php?page=product&id=31
- Add 2x Audison Prima AP 4 mids (41mm depth); http://www.audison.eu/index.php?page=product&id=56
- Add 2x Audison AP 8 woofers (66mm depth); http://www.audison.eu/index.php?page=product&id=59

or, low budget

3. Coax
- Audison Prima APX 4 coax in all 4 doors; http://www.audison.eu/index.php?page=product&id=60 - how much of a downgrade would this be to the above options?
- Active sub in the trunk ala the Focal Ibus 20: https://www.focal.com/en/car-audio/c...osures/ibus-20
Can I order the connectors directly form my dealer? Would be reluctant to cut into the wires if I can avoid it, as it´s a company card. Found an overview of adapters that seems to fit, anyone can clarify?

Adaptors; http://www.xt-audio.de/xt_gb/zubehoe.../mercedes.html

DSP Amp; Axton A580DSP - seems to get good reviews on German sites, and is cheaper than both Match and Audison;
Would I gain massive sound improvements with i.e. the Audison set? Cost wise the components is not much more expensive, but probably it´ll take some additional hours for installation as it´s not entirely pnp as the standard components.

 

Hi,
my comments as I already did modification (actually full rebuilt) of the sound system in my W205.
1. Keep it simple
- Add 2x Mercedes "Burmester" 8" woofers - I think for the price you can buy better woofers : in plus easy install (these will fit in original places w/o modification) - remember that additional cabling is required for a driver woofer, passenger woofer has already cable pulled but this is in parallel with front left and right channel. You will have to separate channels.
- Add 2x Mercedes W221 Soft dome tweeters - tweeters dedicated to W205 will feet in original placed - additional wiring required from door mids
- Keep existing 4" std. speakers - for rear could be an option but for front I propose to change it, if you will consider to change it together with tweeter then you will have a crossover already in package
- Add a small DSP amp ala Helix Match, Audison Prima, Axton A580 etc. - doesn't make sense as you consider to keep original speakers, a lot of cabling to be done from HU to amp and back if you will keep original speakers cabling (which I suppose is the option).
2. Upgrade components
- Add 2x Audison Voce AV 1.1 tweeters: - Voce is higher level than Prima, more expensive as for this installation. I have Prima AP1 and I am happy with
- Add 2x Audison Prima AP 4 mids (41mm depth): - My advise do not use them, very good speakers but the depth. I have them install in front doors and there is a lot of modification to be done to fit them and then fix door panel. If you will remove door speaker trim and install them from inside then should be ok but removing the trim is a difficult part. For this speakers it will be good to have a crossover which is not included
- Add 2x Audison AP 8 woofers (66mm depth): - this was my first choice when I was planing an upgrade for my previous car, but after changing car I use AP6.5, Depth is one thing but dimeter is other. AP8 should fit but an adapter is necessary and this is tricky part as place were front woofer (woofers when we consider Burmester installation) is install is not flat so custom adapters for the speakers are required - remember that passenger side is not mirror of driver side (this was my mistake). You can use original speaker to modify for new speakers but this will be different for driver and passenger side - on passenger side you have already speaker but on driver side there is only cover cap.
General : it will sounds better but additional cabling for woofers is necessary (remember about speaker impedance : HU has only 4 channels output and limited power output). And of course no control of speakers (I mean equalization - maybe passive if you will install passive crossovers)
3. Coax
- Audison Prima APX 4 coax in all 4 doors; http://www.audison.eu/index.php?page=product&id=60 - how much of a downgrade would this be to the above options? - I have them in rear doors, play really good but the same problem as for AP4 - mounting. A lot of modifications. Downgrade for sure not, but for the front I suggest 2-way separate (tweeter + mid). You will still have a woofer on passenger side connected so remember that impedance will change together with speaker changing. You will supply them by HU.
- Active sub in the trunk ala the Focal Ibus 20: https://www.focal.com/en/car-audio/c...osures/ibus-20 - it will improve low freqs. but in my opinion woofers are necessary to keep all scene (all freqs.). And for the price of Ibus20 which is actually underseat sub you can get regular subwoofer
Limitation: HU will be not powerful enough to drive new speakers plus you will need new cabling to install a sub.

I recommend Audison AP8.9 as this is really good dsp amp. You can manage each speaker separately, crossovers, delays etc. But cabling, cabling, cabling. Power connection, signal from HU and back for using original speaker cabling. And some hours to be spend on setup of the system - equalizing.
My installation cost was 1200Euro at least. Installation done by my self - full 4 days. Still need additional equalizing but it sound much better then original installation. I can go full power and there is no distortion or whatever, clean sound all the way.

Question: how much you want to modify the system? If this is company car any of modifs will require some adaptation (cabling, connectors etc.). How long will you keep the car? Further you go more car installation modification will be required.

My general advise: I did modifications as I had equipment already (never installed, left from previous car) but if I consider to do it again I wouldn't do. To many modifications needed.
I read on other forum that mostly small modification which is:
- adding original tweeters in front doors
- changing passenger woofer to Burmester and adding Burmester woofer of driver side (good to use small amp for this two speaker - High level input from passenger woofer can be taken + additional cabling for power of the amp + cable for driver side woofer)
- keep original mids in doors, eventually change mids in front doors.
will change your sound system a lot already. Then you can also add activ sub in trunk which will be more than enough.
I saw also that there will be dedicated set of speakers for w/s205 (check this topic: https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...nd-system.html ). This can be the best option as this will be easy to install. But I supposed that w/o dsp amp will not show what it can.

I already gave my opinion to others on this forum to think again about the cost and job which has to be done vs. the target. The problem of adding DSP amp to the system is a cabling. Location of the woofers is also not perfect, only mids in the doors.

Anyway if you want to improve a little bit than go with option I gave you (2 tweeters, new Burmester woofers, small installation + eventually sub in trunk) and you should be happy. But if your target is to have a really good system then :
- DSP Amp
- new woofers
- 2-way option in front doors (new tweeters and mids)
- rear doors can be original mids : front is more important and if you will have a good front than rear will be less important.

Hope this will give you some view. If any additional question then PM me.

 

Thanks a lot for the constructive feedback.

As you say, I will want to keep the budget and mods to a minimum as it´s a company car that has to be returned the same way, meaning I will have to pull all the modificaions out again. The lease is for a 3 year periode and I do weekly drives of +600 km on some days.

I believe I will start out with adding tweeter, either the orginal Burmester/W205 tweeter - how good are they? or some Gladen HT-25 as I can get the from a guy in Germany who has done specific crossower for those to fit the W205 (link to the 91 pages of knowledge; https://www.motor-talk.de/forum/klan...2.html?page=85). The local Gura ala Vladah and Mike_525 is Teddy-Bärchen who has done some equally tremondous analysis on the different components (link to a pdf with the components of choice: https://www.motor-talk.de/forum/akti...hmentId=743014)

Looks like the most plug-n-play would be to get the follwoing:
- Tweeter: Gladen HG-25GF as this is plug-n-play fitting in the door sail with no mods
- Mids: Keep existing 4"
- Front bass/woofer: add 2x 8" Burmester std. woofers (A 213 820 00 02 (left) and A 213 820 01 02 (right)
- Helix Match PP82DSP

Or for even more simple installation
- Coax in all doors
- Under seat sub
- no amp

 

Your welcome.
As this is a lease car then I think it is not worth to invest a lot of money. I asked you about that because sometimes it is not worth to invest a huge money for a car which is a lease car.
I will still recommend Audison AP1 tweeters. They will fit w/o modification - you can stick them with some glue (like hot glue) which can be removed easily later on. They come with dedicated crossover which is small to install inside the door panel (double face tape - I stick them next to mids).
I could find gladen tweeters on ebay so check if this product is not end of life. Original tweeters price is a hell to expensive (I found on ebay 131Euro for a pair) compare to for example AP1 which is around 65Euro ( http://www.ebay.fr/itm/AUDISON-AP-1-...item2ef1300e4b )
I also saw this document but as it is in German then I could understand all - the only think I don't like is a domino connectors - either soldering or some 2pins connector will be better.
As for a front bass check this speakers: https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...ml#post7270055
I cannot find them on website but these are pnp for sure.
I also recommend Audison AP8.9 for a DSP amplifier which is really good (EISA award) but this depend on you as the prices are almost the same. But I just realized that the price for AP8.9 is almost twice vs. price I paid - in Nov. 2016 I paid 494Euros and now the price is around 760Euro
DSP amp is always good option as you can keep it for your next installation
For a cabling to connect HU to AMP and back it can be also half price (I bought an adapter, some Hollywood multipair cables for signal and also power from car battery with fuse) - original Helix or Audison pnp wire are at least twice price of custom made cables which will works the same way
I do not know if you will find place under seat to put subwoofer. When I did my installation I removed passenger seat to get to cabling tray under carpet so I could see the space there.
As a conclusion:
- adding tweeters will increase high freqs. which is good
- changing passenger woofer and adding driver woofer will increase mid/low freqs. (lower I mean kick bass) which will sound much better then single one which low quality but this will request an amplifier which can be used in next cars + you will have full control of each speaker (eq., delay etc).
- sub will give you real bass which you will not have installing only woofers in front - additional cabling.
Whatever you will do you will hear the difference
C-class audio is a shame. Previously I had (still in my family) an Audi A4 B8 which has standard audio (Concert HU) and there are installed 2 dash board speakers (tweeters), 2x8" woofers in front doors and 2 tweeters and 6,5" woofers in rear doors. Sound is nothing to compare - maybe not perfect but if I had this sound quality in my W205 I would not change it

 

Great, and again agree with you, it makes perfect sense to keep the cost down.

I´m also leaning on the Audison tweeter, as opposed to the Gladen, but was probably aiming for the Voce AV 1.1 as they are rather close in price, so I´m assuming the Voce would be an even better sounding tweeter?

The speakers/woofers you´re referring to as pop, is that those Rainbow speaker? Cant find them on the german or english site. I see they now have put up 3 set of MB pnp; http://www.rainbow-audio.de/en/speak...line/mercedes/ - seems good, will ask for a quote of MSRP. But it would be equally interesting to spot those 8" pnp woofers - those I can't seem to find online?

 

Just a comment - you are getting solid experienced input from one of our most experienced member's with the 205 sound system ... you might condider taking the recomendation on tweeters - then go foward from there.

Frankly - adding tweet's can make sense for you - budget and all - but the big "lift" really points at adding "plug-n-play" DSP amp - with correct connectors - and there is solid install examples of that in the "main" W205 audio upgrade thread..

 

Goes without saying:-)

Will get tweeters, DSP amp, either PP82DPS or Audison bit 5.9/8.9 - still not decided. Seems the installer I´m planning on using has a preference for the Match, which would mean better/easier tuning and faster installation time, equalling lower labour cost.

My question on tweeter was concerning which is the best tweeter sound wise, as the Audison Prima AP 1 is not really much cheaper than the Voce AV 1.1 that I would assume offer superior performance? Also the Focal KRS tweet (TKN 242) that sees to get a lot of appraisal in here, is in the same price range, actually a bit cheaper the AV 1.1 and not much more than AP1. My concern is the Focal tweeter will be too harsh?

 

I don't know if this was about me but if yes then I am honored and thank you
Audio is part of my profession - I am audio/video/lighting integrator/designer focused on Public Address Systems in cooperation with General Alarm (basically cruise ships). Car audio is my freak

Coming back to topic...
@o27
You are considering to install Voce tweeters. This is a high line of Audison as I mentioned. AP1 is Prima which is designed as oem integration system. There will be differences between speakers for sure. My first choice was AP1 as I knew that will be more than enough for me having no tweeters at all in Audio20 installation.
We have to consider some situations:
1. What is your music source? I mean do you play mp3 or CD?
2. Tweeters will be installed in parallel with mids in front doors, behind crossover, passive crossover. Not fully controlled. Perfect will be to have dedicated channel which with dsp amp will be not a problem but require dedicated cabling which will be not a case in your installation (running cables from dsp amp thru door cable pass to tweeter).
3. Power supplied to tweeter in parallel with mid. Theoretically half power will go to tweeter and half power to mid.

So as you can see Voce AV1.1 are about 130E and AP1 around 70E. To be honest you will be happy with both so decision is yours.
If you are listening CD then super - best quality of audio but mp3 then as you know this is compressed audio so anyway some freqs. will be lost = tweeters will not shows fully what they can show.
I have this configuration:
1. Two woofers AP6.5 @ 4Ohms each - each channel is in bridged mode so 135W per woofer
2. Front - 2 tweeters AP1 in parallel with AP4 (tweeter behind crossover dedicated) @ 4Ohms - 35W per channel
3. Rear - 2 mids APX @ 4Ohms - 35W per mid
So in total : 8 channel used. Channel 9 which is preout going to AP1D supplying sub - 300W @ 4Ohms : Hertz ES250.5 in sealed box (around 25l).
Amps are installed in trunk. Power for amps is going from battery (after fuse 60Amp) 4 AWG than split to two amps 8AWG (max diameter for Audson dsp amps). Signal from HU (9x1,5mm2) and back to HU to supply front and rear doors. New cables for woofers - 2x1,5 mm2. For sub I used 2x4mm2.

I have sedan (saloon) body and usually I am driving with 1 part of rear seat open to have open space for sub - bass is much better but this is an issue with saloon cars.
With this configuration I have a nice sound system, not saying the best because it is not (I heard better than mine) but at least nothing to compare to Audio20 or even to Burmester. Still considering to change woofers to something else to see if I can get more mid-lows - maybe 8" with custom adaptation.

And at the end... When you driving the car end listening to music the sound is different then when you stay. With driving you have external noises, vibrations and others.
So consider all this as an advise

 

Once again, thanks for your valuable input.

I´ve gotten some quote from a reputable car audio installer on approx 400€ to install a Match PP82DSP including tuning and all wiring, to tweeters, woofers and battery - seems like a very fair price. The HW I´ll get myself so have some freedom of choice on tweeters, woofer, amp etc.

Belive I´ll go the AP1 as you have positive experience with those, I´ll probably stick with the Burmester 8" from the W213, and the PP82DSP or Prima 5.9/8.9 depending on price and final system. Then I´ll be able to run the drivers active and save on the crossovers.