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Hi. I’ve just purchased a 2015 C200 for daily driving. I’m curious about ECU re-mapping but honestly, don’t know a great deal about it. I’ve been reading a lot online but thought this may be the best forum for an experienced opinion.
If I was to get it done, I’m happy to go to a reputable company and pay what’s required. Is it fair to say that if you stay within the output figures of a C300, it shouldn’t place excess strain on the engine?
The car came with a 2 year MB certified warranty, so I’m wary of doing anything too radical.
If people think it’s not worth it, please let me know!
Mine is a C200 AMG line 2015 built in Germany. I live in Lebanon. I decided not to touch my ECU. I was frankly worried about ECU issues... Instead I installed Brabus Power box. It gave me roughly an extra 40 - 45 hp. I noticed higher torque increased responsiveness and power. It is a great German product but frankly expensive. Well you get what you pay for. It comes with a 3 years warranty. I also added Racechip (German) it basically increases throttle response when you press on the gaz pedal. I installed K&N air filter and Armytrix (US) down pipe and Exhaust system. The last changed the car's sound. I have a small video of it sound i can share it with you if you want.
Whichever way you go, ask to see a before and after Dyno run with the torque and horsepower curves. Forums are full of unsubstantiated claims of horsepower or torque gains based on choice-supportive bias or post-purchase rationalization. With the Dyno data you'll get facts.
Having said that...over the years and on forums from BMW to MB to Ferrari to Porsche...I've read good stuff about Eurocharged. Brabus is also a well-known MB tuner.
Personally, I agree with the snake oil comment and have decided not to go that route.
Cant really complain about Brabus, you will feel instant difference without needing to see graphs. But again there is no harm in putting it on a Dyno. It is a good way to see how many hps you gained.
Can somebody please explain to me what does the snake oil comment mean?
Thanks for the replies.
So I take it no one above sees this modification as being too risky?
I'll have to look in to the availability of the suggested systems in Australia.
As a lawyer I'd inquire into the effect, if any, that modifications would have on your warranty. The law in every country is different. You wouldn't want a slight gain in performance voiding your warranty.
.. "which investigated the high failure rates of modern MAF sensors. Several factors where involved which revealed what many have suspected all along.
Higher air flow capability with the K&N is the result of larger pores in the filter media to offset the smaller total area when compared to any OEM filter. Oil is used to help trap the dirt when it comes in contact with the filter media. One of the aspects of this design allows what is referred to as "Tracking" where certain regions of the filter media as a result of internal air box flow patterns directs particles to specific regions of the filter more than others. What occurs next is those regions lose the oil saturation to the increased dirt loading allowing particles in the 90 micron range to pass through the media since there is no longer any more residual oil in the local pores.
Oil migration. Oil migration occurs when the motor is in warm climates and/or operating at high engine speeds where the volume of air passing accross the filter carries small amounts of oil into the air stream post filter which is now entering the motor.
Particles less than 90 microns... Pull a hair out of your head and push it through the filter media, if it passes through you have a filter with pores GREATER than 100 Microns in size! This is the primary issue with MAF sensors. MAF sensors rely on filtration quality that captures 95% of all particles greater in size than 15 microns. Ideally 10 micron capability would result in longer life but now the physical size of the filter is increased to offset the fine fitlering capability when using conventional or synthetic fibers in an "Un-Oiled" air filter.
MAF air flow sensor design. MAF sensors use micrscopic heating elements placed on a circuit board. The heating element provides a constant rise in temperature to provide a known condition for the ECU to calculate air flow. On the leading edge of the MAF sensor is a temperature sensor which measures the temperature of the air passing over the leading edge, this temperature returns a value to the ECU. As the air passes over the heated portion of the MAF sensor heat is transmitted to the air stream thus heating it. As the air passes accross the back portion of the sensor a second temperature reading is taken. Higher flow rates result in lower temperature rise, lower flow rates result in higher temperature rises.
Another aspect of the MAF sensor is static build up on the leading edge of the sensor element. This static charge causes small particles of dirt and debris to adhere to the elements leading edge distorting the laminar flow characteristics of the sensor throwing off the temeperature readings take accross the elements surface. Over time rotors form accross the back side of the build up depositing oil, dirt and anything else that is in the slip stream directly onto the heating elements surface. What happens next is that the oil/dirt or any combination of the two insulates the heating element causing it to overheat and short out. The result is a complete loss of data to the ECU causing it to revert to default values stored as a limp home function.
The precursor to the failure is often a reduction in peformance as a result of inaccurate thermal readings accross the sensor plate. As the dirt accumulates power typically drops off until the heating element fails.
OEM air filters believe it or not out perform K&N in all aspects. This is easily done by using filter media which has much smaller pore size (5 microns on "average") this allows typical filtration to hit the 10-15 micron range with the 95% effective range. However the fine filtration capabily results in more restriction, the restriction is offset by increasing the depth and number of the pleats the media uses. The biggest advantage to this is that the OEM filters are able to go 50,000-100,000 miles between changes WITHOUT resulting in any increases of restriction or worse yet ALLOWING MORE DIRT TO GET IN THE MOTOR! OEM filters REGARDLESS of miles or time in use perform as well or BETTER the more they are used again up until the reach the maximum restriction point (15" or 25" WC).
Most OEM air filters have anywhere between 1-4" water colum of restriction when new. A fitler is considered to be "Loaded" when restriction reaches 15" WC on naturally aspirated motors and 25"WC on turbo or supercharged vehicles. Regardless of how dirty the filter may look provided restriction does not exceed the above numbers the filter is providing 95% efficiency at removing all particles greater than 10-15 microns.
Bottom line is that using any type of high flow filter that does not meet the 95% filtering capability at 15 microns is asking for trouble.
Call K&N and ask them what their filtering efficiency is at 15 microns and if they will warranty the MAF if it becomes contaminated and burns out... I will save you the time, they will laugh at you and not do a thing."
Yeah...K&N is definitely snake oil. I have them on my motorcycles because they're exposed and look cool and the consequences are pretty minor, not because they provide better performance. I always cringe when I see people put them on cars for the reasons you posted.
I love my K&N. Slightly better sound and better breathing. I will definitely keep an eye on it. So far all good and thanks for the detailed explanation. Like anything in life there are the goods and bads in everything.
Basically they all fool the ecu into dangerously raising the fuel pressure over pressurising the fuel rail and injectors .
Others also fool boost sensors etc , but does it make them any better...
"Why I won't use tuning boxes:
We all know that you can bolt up a tuning box to your car, and it makes it go better.Seems a bit backwards, considering I won't use them. But they do carry out the task that they were designed to do. The benefit of a tuning box is that it is very easy to install and remove, leaving minimal traces, if any, that it was used, and it can be transferred from car to car. My issue is how they work, which will we cover in the next section, and the value they represent. On the face of it, they provide similar performance upgrades to a remap, and are usually cheaper too, although there are some which cost more than the average remap. For what you get out of it, they do seem like good value, but once you know how they work, you may change your mind.
A common rail or later, works its way through a flow graph in the ECU to give the response you ask for. A major point is that, unlike in petrol cars, Diesels do not need a throttle plate. Petrol powered engines operate in a small range or air/fuel ratios, rich will waste fuel without any appreciable power increases after a point, and lean can produce lean misfires, where the combustion chain reaction simply can't continue.
For the Diesel though, torque (and therefore power) is controlled by changing the amount of fuel added to a cylinder that contains as much air as possible. The diesel accelerator pedal passes a torque request to the ECU asking for a certain amount of torque. This has become known as the "Driver's Wish". The ECU then goes through a number of tables to calculate the required Injection Quantity (IQ) to give this. From the map tables, engine speed, airflow, and the amount of torque required, it will calculate how much diesel to inject. This is then passed through a number of correction and filter maps to further refine the characteristics. Correction for atmospheric conditions, fuel temperature etc are used, and also there will be a number of Limiter Maps.
Examples of these limiter maps are Torque Limiters which will reduce the torque that is produced if it may cause damage to the drivetrain. Smoke Limiters are also set based on known Air/Fuel ratios that can produce black smoke from rich conditions. So it first off receives the requests, it will calculate how much diesel will be needed, makes sure it won't leave clouds of smoke or ruin the clutch, further fine tunes the exact fuel quantity by its mass, until it comes to the perfect amount. This amount is passed onto the output side, which will calculate when and how long to open an injector to give that amount of fuel. It will already know the flow rate of the injectors, the pressures of the fuel rail, and then opens the injector for a specific time to inject the desired quantity. Now, where does the Tuning Box fit in?
As you will have seen in the adverts, Diesel tuning boxes are very easy to install. Often just 2 plugs, ready and matching the original car loom. All you need to do is unclip a plug near the back of the engine somewhere, connect in this box, and it's done. Although you can pass a lot of data down 2 or 3 wires, that isn't what happens in this case. The plug that the Tuning box connects into is for the Rail Pressure sensor. -Pictured right
As mentioned above, diesels aren't too fussy about Air/Fuel ratios, they will often continue to make power when incredibly rich, and producing huge clouds of black smoke. Take a look on Youtube at some of the big power Diesel Drag cars and trucks. In OEM Diesel tuning for the road, the limitations are usually based on the amount of smoke produced, and the amount of power the chassis can handle. Big BHP figures on a diesel are easy to make, and choosing the Tuner with the highest figure can sometimes be just picking the bravest. It's easy to be brave with someone else's engine. Intercepting the Rail Pressure sensor is the key to Tuning Boxes. The ECU/engine will control the pressure, and it uses its sensor to confirm this. This figure is vital for the ECU to known the fuel quantity.
Adding a resistor into this sensor circuit passes the wrong information to the ECU. What was 1500bar is now reported as 1400bar, so the ECU will activate the high pressure injection pump to raise the pressure by 100bar above the sensor value. The extra pressure will force more diesel through the open injector, and as mentioned, for a diesel, more fuel = more power. There is safety factors and tolerances built in, but in all cases, the Injector pump is now doing more work providing the extra pressure, and the Injectors are now holding back greater forces. The Torque and Smoke limiters have been bypassed as the ECU doesn't realise the greater fuel flow, and more interestingly, the MPG is screwed!
ECONOMY AND TUNING BOXES
From the original calculations in the ECU, and the Vehicle Road Speed, the ECU will be able to calculate the quantity of fuel used per unit of distance traveled. But what happens if the quantity of diesel injected is higher than the value the ECU is expecting? In this case the Economy will be WRONG as the ECU thinks it is using less diesel than reality. As with most external changes, if one calibrated component is disturbed, the knock on effects will be far reaching.
That's not to say that there isn't an increase in economy, there will be changes, and often the economy does increase, but certainly not to the level that the On Board Computer or Trip Computer thinks.
So what does a remap do differently? Well, for a start, it will be clear and honest with the ECU right from the start. For the average Diesel Remap, the fuel injection quantity is raised, but by telling the ECU to inject more, and the ECU will handle the rest. In most cases, it is holding the injector open for longer. The Rail Pressure may have modest increases which can help fuel vapourisation and economy, but the main method of increasing the Injection Quantity is with a collection of tables from 'driver's wish' to 'Torque Conversion' maps, which puts less stress on the expensive Injection Pump, and the Injectors. The Torque conversion map is used on more advance diesels which treat all the requests in Nm of torque, and then use Torque Conversion to look up how much diesel to be injected to reach the desired figure. Fine tuning can also be carried out on the Phase of Injection to keep Exhaust Gas Temperatures down, and Pre and Post Injection too.
The Turbo Boost pressure is often increased too, and this will provide more air (and oxygen) which will further allow greater Injection Quantities without becoming too rich and smoking. The torque limiters can be raised to monitored levels under full control of the tuner.
Finally of course, the Injected quantity is correct, and the MPG displayed is still accurate. The increases seen with a Remap in economy are true and can be trusted, unlike with a Tuning Box, which can only provide great looking false data.
What about the more expensive tuning boxes?
Well, if all that is intercepted is the Rail Pressure Sensor, and it is external to the ECU, it will work the same way. You can have devices where the resistance added is adjustable by a small potentiometer on the outside, but it still is just a resistor in a large, expensive box. Extra circuits may be added, more complex methods may be used, but it still will come down to adding resistance into a circuit and fooling the ECU.
Even real time adjustment of the falsified Rail Pressure Signal would require more inputs for the engine speed, and the Torque Request, and any big or fast changes would be immediately spotted by the ECU. In those cases, if the rail pressure sensor suddenly starts to show dropping pressure from a Tuning Box altering the signal, a failure in the pump, or a Rail Leak will be assumed by the ECU.
Hopefully this article will have given you the knowledge to make an informed decision on how you would like to tune your Diesel. Both a Remap and a Tuning Box will really make your car come alive, but in different ways, and with different Pros and Cons for each method."
It's not always going to happen though as mentioned in the above article , the boxes can't circumvent the torque and smoke limiters within the ecu map , so you're not likely to get the 'marketed' gains .
And some of them are extremely wild claims , two of the box manufactures tested later quote 100Nm and 120Nm , most Stage 1 remaps are 50Nm advertised gain , 100/120 , simply not possible with keeping the DPF.
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Slideshow: A one-of-one U.S.-spec Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster became even rarer after a factory-backed transformation at McLaren's headquarters.
