WEISTEC Tune and Spark Plug Concerns M157TT Engine
10-29-2013, 05:57 PM
#26
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..I had tune issues like almost everybody else on the forums. I decided to let my tuner have the chance to fix the problem before I starting posting online.
They fixed the problem.
The customer service I received was great and there was no need to post on a public forum..
They fixed the problem.
The customer service I received was great and there was no need to post on a public forum..
I’m pleased you’ve gotten things squared away to your satisfaction.
My perspective of your handling of the situation ‘publicly’ on these pages was that it was indeed appropriate, gentlemanly, and professional.
reference:
https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...new-plugs.html
While Vic55 and I may literally and figuratively never share garage space per se, members should always feel welcome to voice legitimate experiences. :)
10-29-2013, 07:10 PM
#27
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'13 CLS63 PP, '16 Huracan , '11 RR Ghost
As stated above this make sense but.......... who is the retailer here? Was the tune purchased directly by Weistec? Does the retailer hold the responsibility or the manufacturer. When I tune my cars outside of a direct wholesaler like OE; I hold my retailer repsonsible as they put their feet into the shoes of the person who handles the problems. It appears here that the OP bought a tune from an authorized retailer right? So the OP's beef could be with them too or at least it should start there.
The retailer should be working out the kinks of the tune and/or possible issues.
When I buy my wheels from the HRE retailer- I expect the retailer to handle the issues (if any)... When I buy a laptop or cell phone from a retailer do I go thru the manufacturer? NO... but Im sure we can all come with both sides of the coin on this. Im just saying there are other people who should be assisting the OP here. There was also plug installs no?
The retailer should be working out the kinks of the tune and/or possible issues.
When I buy my wheels from the HRE retailer- I expect the retailer to handle the issues (if any)... When I buy a laptop or cell phone from a retailer do I go thru the manufacturer? NO... but Im sure we can all come with both sides of the coin on this. Im just saying there are other people who should be assisting the OP here. There was also plug installs no?
I beleive the retailer and the manafacture hold responsibility together equally. The manafacture chooses the dealers they work with and they should be trained properly since they are a direct reflection of the manafacturer.
WE dont have many tuners up north and I beleive the one he went too is the best. They tune almost all the cars up here.
This issue comes down to customer service and how far a manafacure is willing to take it to resolve the problem.
I had tune issues like almost everybody else on the forums. I decided to let my tuner have the chance to fix the problem before I starting posting online. They fixed the problem
The customer service I receieved was great and there was no need to post on a public forum.
My car has had misfires before and its a pretty scary situation escpecially when you are far from home.
I thinkt E63 car was actually tuned at Wesitec from what I read
WE dont have many tuners up north and I beleive the one he went too is the best. They tune almost all the cars up here.
This issue comes down to customer service and how far a manafacure is willing to take it to resolve the problem.
I had tune issues like almost everybody else on the forums. I decided to let my tuner have the chance to fix the problem before I starting posting online. They fixed the problem
The customer service I receieved was great and there was no need to post on a public forum.
My car has had misfires before and its a pretty scary situation escpecially when you are far from home.
I thinkt E63 car was actually tuned at Wesitec from what I read
I don’t post things like this unless I have to. You heard about the issues that I had with my previous wheels (on E63) that you are trying to get – and I don’t post that though it was beyond terrible.
To answer questions from Vic and drop997stop, here are the facts and a little update:
1. Bought tune from authorized retailer. Car was tuned directly at Weistec’s facility.
2. Purchased Weistec spark plugs from my retailer and got them installed before the car was tuned.
3. New spark plugs from Weistec received Friday (trying to fit in schedule to install the new spark plugs)
4. Car currently using stock spark plugs (running fine) and OBD reader is used when driving to see air intake temperature.
Last edited by E-SICKTY3; 10-30-2013 at 01:11 AM.
10-29-2013, 07:31 PM
#28
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2020 Audi R8 V10, 2016 AMG GTS, 2018 E63S Edition 1, 2018 Porsche GTS Cab, 2012 C63 BS
Thanks for the clarity OP---- and Im all for end users voicing their concerns- my post was to play the other side of the table which rarely happens here when someone doesnt like what they got or wasnt prepared for the potential failure with a mod = group lynching. I have been a mod here for a very long time and have witnessed both the good and bad that come from these so I had to ask the question. Thanks for answering.
10-30-2013, 01:22 AM
#29
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'13 CLS63 PP, '16 Huracan , '11 RR Ghost
Thanks for the clarity OP---- and Im all for end users voicing their concerns- my post was to play the other side of the table which rarely happens here when someone doesnt like what they got or wasnt prepared for the potential failure with a mod = group lynching. I have been a mod here for a very long time and have witnessed both the good and bad that come from these so I had to ask the question. Thanks for answering.
I will post more updates ASAP.
10-30-2013, 08:35 PM
#30
Former Vendor of MBWorld
We have used a Weistec tune in some of our cars and they were very easy to work with and went the extra mile for us. We had some plugs break in our car as well but I just can't seem to find a way in my head to blame any of that happening on Weistec. We were using stock plugs and broke them in both cars within a week of each other.
I chalk that up to being part of the game and I just deal with it. It's unfortunate that it is happening but I do not blame Weistec for that in any way. To me there must be something with the engine design that helps lead to this happening.
Like I said, I am another shop and was very happy with how Weistec handled the business we did with them.
We now change the plugs in all of our cars and have not had any issue since then but, if we end up having an issue with the new plugs we are using, I will just go ahead and change it and keep it moving. I don't know what plugs Weistec or Renntech are using but I am sure that they are both using a quality plug.
I chalk that up to being part of the game and I just deal with it. It's unfortunate that it is happening but I do not blame Weistec for that in any way. To me there must be something with the engine design that helps lead to this happening.
Like I said, I am another shop and was very happy with how Weistec handled the business we did with them.
We now change the plugs in all of our cars and have not had any issue since then but, if we end up having an issue with the new plugs we are using, I will just go ahead and change it and keep it moving. I don't know what plugs Weistec or Renntech are using but I am sure that they are both using a quality plug.
10-30-2013, 11:59 PM
#32
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'13 CLS63 PP, '16 Huracan , '11 RR Ghost
We have used a Weistec tune in some of our cars and they were very easy to work with and went the extra mile for us. We had some plugs break in our car as well but I just can't seem to find a way in my head to blame any of that happening on Weistec. We were using stock plugs and broke them in both cars within a week of each other.
I chalk that up to being part of the game and I just deal with it. It's unfortunate that it is happening but I do not blame Weistec for that in any way. To me there must be something with the engine design that helps lead to this happening.
Like I said, I am another shop and was very happy with how Weistec handled the business we did with them.
We now change the plugs in all of our cars and have not had any issue since then but, if we end up having an issue with the new plugs we are using, I will just go ahead and change it and keep it moving. I don't know what plugs Weistec or Renntech are using but I am sure that they are both using a quality plug.
I chalk that up to being part of the game and I just deal with it. It's unfortunate that it is happening but I do not blame Weistec for that in any way. To me there must be something with the engine design that helps lead to this happening.
Like I said, I am another shop and was very happy with how Weistec handled the business we did with them.
We now change the plugs in all of our cars and have not had any issue since then but, if we end up having an issue with the new plugs we are using, I will just go ahead and change it and keep it moving. I don't know what plugs Weistec or Renntech are using but I am sure that they are both using a quality plug.
I believe its BOSCH.. and Weistec is using BRISK racing.
10-31-2013, 12:06 AM
#33
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'13 CLS63 PP, '16 Huracan , '11 RR Ghost
https://mbworld.org/forums/w218/4576...-cls-63-a.html
Last edited by E-SICKTY3; 10-31-2013 at 12:23 AM.
10-31-2013, 12:13 AM
#34
Former Vendor of MBWorld
The thing is with the Mercedes plugs is that they are all indexed so that they all end up in the combustion chamber in the same direction and the aftermarket ones (like the ones we use) are not indexed. People have been indexing plugs for a long time but it has not been important to racers for a long time. Now that these new Mercedes cars are using all the direct fuel injection I am not 100% sure how important it is that Mercedes took the extra step to thread all the plugs the same way in order to do this. I can only hope that it is to improve the emissions and is not a significant performance related design.
We tried to get Bosch Motorsport to make a plug for us in a colder heat range that was indexed but they would not do it for us and I am not sure what kind of investment would be involved to do it that way. I would assume that the order would have to be in the quantity range of 20,000+ plugs which is a significant investment and I do not know of any current tuners who could afford that investment.
We just purchased some sensitive Kistler strain gauges and sensors that will give us a much better understanding of what goes on in the combustion chamber as we will now be able to measure very high cylinder pressures while the car is running. We were lucky enough to have the opportunity to purchase this equipment from a vehicle manufacturer that was moving some dyne cells so we jumped on the opportunity. This will give us a clear indication of what is going on with the spark plugs as well as many of the other parameters.
If we find a reason why these plugs are failing and the solution to the problem is straightforward we will be sure to share that information with all the other Mercedes tuners. These are unchartered territories to all of us and without the hard data we are all just really guessing.
Last edited by Staff@WORLD; 11-01-2013 at 01:06 AM.
10-31-2013, 12:27 AM
#35
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'13 CLS63 PP, '16 Huracan , '11 RR Ghost
Bosch.
We just purchased some sensitive Kistler strain gauges and sensors that will give us a much better understanding of what goes on in the combustion chamber as we will now be able to measure very high cylinder pressures while the car is running. We were lucky enough to have the opportunity to purchase this equipment from a vehicle manufacturer that was moving some dyne cells so we jumped on the opportunity. This will give us a clear indication of what is going on with the spark plugs as well as many of the other parameters.
If we find a reason why these plugs are failing and the solution to the problem is straightforward we will be sure to share that information with all the other Mercedes tuners. These are unchartered territories to all of us and without the hard data we are all just really guessing.
We just purchased some sensitive Kistler strain gauges and sensors that will give us a much better understanding of what goes on in the combustion chamber as we will now be able to measure very high cylinder pressures while the car is running. We were lucky enough to have the opportunity to purchase this equipment from a vehicle manufacturer that was moving some dyne cells so we jumped on the opportunity. This will give us a clear indication of what is going on with the spark plugs as well as many of the other parameters.
If we find a reason why these plugs are failing and the solution to the problem is straightforward we will be sure to share that information with all the other Mercedes tuners. These are unchartered territories to all of us and without the hard data we are all just really guessing.
11-04-2013, 10:28 PM
#36
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'13 CLS63 PP, '16 Huracan , '11 RR Ghost
The Solution and Findings
OK.. so I got a chance to talk to both side of the party here (my installer shop and Steve at Weistec). Here are my findings.
Spark plugs problem:
First, my tuner shop installed the spark plugs before I got my car tuned, and find that the spark plug wasn't pre gapped so my installer had to re-install the spark plugs gapped.
Facts:
- My installer shop stated it came without any instruction and they also assume it is pre gapped from Weistec.
- Weistec stated it should be common sense for them to do the install and gap the spark plugs.
Driven hundreds of miles and running fine.. Then I got my car tuned. After I got my car tuned and driven several hundred miles, one day spark plugs broke (misfire occurred and check engine light turned on). **see picture for broken spark plug**
Facts:
- Weistec sent a new set of spark plugs with instructions now and pre gapped as a warranty. [ Thank you Weistec]
- My installer shop installed both the stock spark plugs and new set of spark plugs (when it came in) for free as I hold them also responsible.
Currently car is running fine with the new spark plugs. Instructions were followed -- spark plugs were torqued at @20NM (per Weistec) and no issue came up from the OBD reader (the blue OBD on pic was used).
Onto the tune issue that I stated previously...
I got low numbers on the dyno that I previously did. Long story short, Weistec stated the tune is running fine and my air intake temperature is too high (at 160F) so I decided to acquire an OBD data logger to see if the air intake temperature is the issue that cause lose in power.
Facts (also see pictures):
- OBD data logger was attached to the car while driving for several days. Found out that air intake temperature is normal at about 98-115F intake temp with 76-77F outside temperature driven hard.
- To test the air intake temperature even more, I decided to re dyno my car with the OBD data logger attached. Air intake temperature was 105F and about 75F outside temperature. Gain was a little higher surprisingly, but still nowhere near 600whp with a huge drop on the torque curve (see dynosheet). So, I don't see an increase in about 15F outside temperature (which is about 90F at Shift Sector) would affect about 40-50F increase in air intake temperature.
**I have a video during the dyno to prove that I actually did the dyno and OBD data logger was attached - I need to figure out how to upload the video**
Conclusion? I still think there is an issue with the tune. Why I think so?
First - Weistec stated dyno might be the problem. (OK)
Second - Tested at Shift Sector, car is not running right.. Weistec stated I have heating issue (air intake temperature is too high).
Now that I have tested all those variables based on facts, air intake temperature seems normal and dyno is not broken (their customers have been getting a pretty accurate numbers on their dyno).
Feel free to state your opinion based on what I found here because I really need to solve this.
Spark plugs problem:
First, my tuner shop installed the spark plugs before I got my car tuned, and find that the spark plug wasn't pre gapped so my installer had to re-install the spark plugs gapped.
Facts:
- My installer shop stated it came without any instruction and they also assume it is pre gapped from Weistec.
- Weistec stated it should be common sense for them to do the install and gap the spark plugs.
Driven hundreds of miles and running fine.. Then I got my car tuned. After I got my car tuned and driven several hundred miles, one day spark plugs broke (misfire occurred and check engine light turned on). **see picture for broken spark plug**
Facts:
- Weistec sent a new set of spark plugs with instructions now and pre gapped as a warranty. [ Thank you Weistec]
- My installer shop installed both the stock spark plugs and new set of spark plugs (when it came in) for free as I hold them also responsible.
Currently car is running fine with the new spark plugs. Instructions were followed -- spark plugs were torqued at @20NM (per Weistec) and no issue came up from the OBD reader (the blue OBD on pic was used).
Onto the tune issue that I stated previously...
I got low numbers on the dyno that I previously did. Long story short, Weistec stated the tune is running fine and my air intake temperature is too high (at 160F) so I decided to acquire an OBD data logger to see if the air intake temperature is the issue that cause lose in power.
Facts (also see pictures):
- OBD data logger was attached to the car while driving for several days. Found out that air intake temperature is normal at about 98-115F intake temp with 76-77F outside temperature driven hard.
- To test the air intake temperature even more, I decided to re dyno my car with the OBD data logger attached. Air intake temperature was 105F and about 75F outside temperature. Gain was a little higher surprisingly, but still nowhere near 600whp with a huge drop on the torque curve (see dynosheet). So, I don't see an increase in about 15F outside temperature (which is about 90F at Shift Sector) would affect about 40-50F increase in air intake temperature.
**I have a video during the dyno to prove that I actually did the dyno and OBD data logger was attached - I need to figure out how to upload the video**
Conclusion? I still think there is an issue with the tune. Why I think so?
First - Weistec stated dyno might be the problem. (OK)
Second - Tested at Shift Sector, car is not running right.. Weistec stated I have heating issue (air intake temperature is too high).
Now that I have tested all those variables based on facts, air intake temperature seems normal and dyno is not broken (their customers have been getting a pretty accurate numbers on their dyno).
Feel free to state your opinion based on what I found here because I really need to solve this.
11-04-2013, 10:45 PM
#37
MBWorld Fanatic!
Your Air intake temperature is normal. What's the altitude where you're dynoing the car? If you're up high, and they aren't correcting for that, you would see lower than normal numbers. Typically the guys a mile-high run smaller pulleys (on other cars) to compensate for the lower DA.
Last edited by Grip Grip; 11-04-2013 at 10:49 PM.
11-04-2013, 10:51 PM
#38
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Why don't you bring the car back to us to take a look at? We aren't certain what message you are trying to send but the bottom line is that we are willing to help (always have been) and it's just a matter of diagnosing what the issue is. You are making this a much bigger deal than it really is to be honest. We are here to help get you running strong so let us know if you would like to get to the bottom of it by bringing the car back to us. Thanks.
Weistec Engineering
Weistec Engineering
11-05-2013, 01:31 AM
#39
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'08 C63, '10 GT-R
Your Air intake temperature is normal. What's the altitude where you're dynoing the car? If you're up high, and they aren't correcting for that, you would see lower than normal numbers. Typically the guys a mile-high run smaller pulleys (on other cars) to compensate for the lower DA.
11-05-2013, 01:36 AM
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Why don't you bring the car back to us to take a look at? We aren't certain what message you are trying to send but the bottom line is that we are willing to help (always have been) and it's just a matter of diagnosing what the issue is. You are making this a much bigger deal than it really is to be honest. We are here to help get you running strong so let us know if you would like to get to the bottom of it by bringing the car back to us. Thanks.
Weistec Engineering
Weistec Engineering
I understand that many companies are under a lot of stress when it comes to unhappy customers voicing their experiences, but it's what this forum is for. Not just for marketing, not just for getting money, but for people like us to learn more about others' experiences. Lets respect the forum for what it is, and what power it gives to the members.
I hope that E sickty could get his car worked out, because that dyno graph is shocking to be honest. 200 torque over 100mph is hilarious to my eye. Good luck to both parties.
After reading this thread, it got me thinking...I wonder how many people out there tuned their cars without getting a dyno, and blindly trust their tuners so much whilst putting down weird torque curves like this.
Last edited by D.T.SFK; 11-05-2013 at 01:41 AM.
11-05-2013, 01:47 AM
#41
MBWorld Fanatic!
crazy how that torque drops off like that, how does the car feel when u are driving at that speed
my torque dropped at 5000 also but very gradual...stock car
my torque dropped at 5000 also but very gradual...stock car
11-05-2013, 02:48 PM
#42
MBWorld Fanatic!
Why not just ask for a refund on your tune --- hopefully Weistec issues a refund -- and then go get a tune by someone else? It may not solve the issues you are currently having and it may leave all parties with a sour taste in their mouths, but it seems like that might be the easiest solution without you having to drive all the way down to Southern Cali. I know the OP as an honest guy -- sold him wheels and he was easy to deal with -- and I had a Weistec supercharger on my C63 (and didnt have any issues the short time I had the car); so without casting aspersions on either side, maybe its best at this late in the game, to just resolve this as quickly and conveniently as possible.
Last edited by Pertplus; 11-05-2013 at 02:50 PM.
11-05-2013, 06:22 PM
#43
Member
Why not just ask for a refund on your tune --- hopefully Weistec issues a refund -- and then go get a tune by someone else? It may not solve the issues you are currently having and it may leave all parties with a sour taste in their mouths, but it seems like that might be the easiest solution without you having to drive all the way down to Southern Cali. I know the OP as an honest guy -- sold him wheels and he was easy to deal with -- and I had a Weistec supercharger on my C63 (and didnt have any issues the short time I had the car); so without casting aspersions on either side, maybe its best at this late in the game, to just resolve this as quickly and conveniently as possible.
11-05-2013, 08:30 PM
#44
Former Vendor of MBWorld
We have no problem issuing a refund upon reflashing the ECU back to its stock configuration if that is what the customer wants done, however this doesn't seem like a tuning issue. Again, we had about 5-6 M157 powered cars at the same event, all having our tunes and they all ran great. This car in particular had issues. One car in particular (2012 S63) had identical mods and tuning and it was running faster. We made 100% sure it wasn't tune related. We only suggest the customer come to us because he stated he frequents Southern California and originally came to us in-house for the tune.
Weistec Engineering
Weistec Engineering
11-06-2013, 02:24 AM
#45
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'08 C63, '10 GT-R
In that case, if I were in E-sickty's shoes. I would simply reflash my ECU back to stock configuration and get the car back on the same dyno and see if the torque curve changes back to normal. If it does than all problems point to the tune and a full refund should be given. If it stays the same (with a massive drop in torque) then obviously it's not the tune's problem, and not Weistec's problem either. Sounds fair to me...
11-06-2013, 02:53 AM
#47
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2011 SLS AMG, 2009 SL63 AMG, 2008 C63 AMG(SOLD)
Weistec are always there to help. My brother had bigger issues with his supercharged SL63. We are more than 10000 miles away in the Mid-East. All of the issues were resolved simply by contacting them via Email or Telephone and the necessary parts sent via DHL Express. If we can do it you can do it. Take your car to them and stop whining .
11-06-2013, 03:25 AM
#49
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2012 CLS63 AMG, 2012 Bentley Cont. GT, 2013 Cayenne Turbo
In that case, if I were in E-sickty's shoes. I would simply reflash my ECU back to stock configuration and get the car back on the same dyno and see if the torque curve changes back to normal. If it does than all problems point to the tune and a full refund should be given. If it stays the same (with a massive drop in torque) then obviously it's not the tune's problem, and not Weistec's problem either. Sounds fair to me...
