Cancelled my Order
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Nashville
300SEL
Originally Posted by E55 KEV
I agree! I could somewhat understand if maybe 1999 and the supercharged version were the same chassis. So his complaint would be:
"Damn-it, I purchased an E55 in 1999 and the dealer did not tell me a supercharged E55 was coming in 2003!"
"Damn-it, I purchased an E55 in 1999 and the dealer did not tell me a supercharged E55 was coming in 2003!"
Thread Starter
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From: Bay Area
'10 Porsche Turbo PDK, 500e, GL450
schwarzwagen
I'm not deciding not to purchase just because of the engine change. I don't expect the HP difference to be as extreme as the one I went thru. But I'm curious to see if you agree that a 120+hp difference from 99 to 2003 is a hard pill to swallow. The HP difference between the 2006-2007 shouldn't be as drastic. This is more about a timing issue. I can get a car that within 6-9 months gets a 2nd depreciation hit due to a new engine being released as well as less HP.
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Joined: Jun 2003
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From: Nashville
300SEL
Originally Posted by Jesseliu
I'm not deciding not to purchase just because of the engine change. I don't expect the HP difference to be as extreme as the one I went thru. But I'm curious to see if you agree that a 120+hp difference from 99 to 2003 is a hard pill to swallow. The HP difference between the 2006-2007 shouldn't be as drastic. This is more about a timing issue. I can get a car that within 6-9 months gets a 2nd depreciation hit due to a new engine being released as well as less HP.
Also, the performance package is not going to be ordered on all CLS55/63 cars on a go forward basis. A standard CLS55 is not going to stand out as some sort of stripper car that no one is going to want. Again, value retention is bolstered. Any CLS55 is going to retain the same approximate level of value as the other. Have you ever heard the adage that one should not count on a bunch of options to increase a used cars value, it's a used car. Period.
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From: Hong Kong
C55AMG W203; 330i E90
Originally Posted by Jesseliu
Okay now what should I buy now!!!
If in terms of enjoying latest MB technology, my (not yours) choice will be the coming W221 S-Class in end 2005, which will shadow the CLSxxx. The new S class will have the following engine line-up ( please help verifying, and don't ask me where I got below data ) :-
S350:V6,3.5 litre,272hp ( this is the new 3500cc 4Valve engine used on SLK350, E350 CLS350; but not the same 3700cc 3Valve engine currently used on the S350 W220 )
S450:V8,4.6 litre, 330hp
S550:V8,5.5 litre, 388hp
S600:V12,5.5 litre, Twin Turbo
S55AMG: V8,6.3 litre NA engine,504hp
S65AMG: ( the engine will be a 6 litre V12 engine bigger than current S65)
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 375
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From: So. Cal.
2006 CLS55-030, 2002 BMW 540 Wagon, 1995 VW Jetta GLX
I think it was a fair comparison!
Frank Wiesmann - I think I understand your point. However, I assume a few things when Top Gear tests a car. One, all the cars are tested on the same track - Two, all the cars are driven by the same Driver - Three, The Driver spends some time with each car determining what each car likes in-order to run it's quickest lap times - and Forth, the driver is highly skilled.
Now with those assumptions in hand, the fact that the CLS55 ran that lap .1 sec faster than the GT3's fast lap and did so sliding a bit more than you would think is an efficient line around the track, really does not matter. I say this because obviously the CLS55 likes to be drifted a little and, because of its 4100 lbs, would need to carry as much speed thru a corner in-order to accelerate, at its optimum level, down the next straight. Also, all the sliding was occurring on the long, relatively gentle turns, however in the tight part of the course sliding was non-existent. I am sure the driver figured out that coming out of a slow turn with 516 lb. ft. of torque that the throttle must be applied carefully to avoid a violent overseer situation.
The course that Top Gear set up seemed to be varied in the types of turns and lengths of straight-of-ways. True , there are courses that may favor one car over another, but in this case the course had tight parts to it and it had long parts to it, so both agility and HP I feel were tested on their course.
- Bob
Now with those assumptions in hand, the fact that the CLS55 ran that lap .1 sec faster than the GT3's fast lap and did so sliding a bit more than you would think is an efficient line around the track, really does not matter. I say this because obviously the CLS55 likes to be drifted a little and, because of its 4100 lbs, would need to carry as much speed thru a corner in-order to accelerate, at its optimum level, down the next straight. Also, all the sliding was occurring on the long, relatively gentle turns, however in the tight part of the course sliding was non-existent. I am sure the driver figured out that coming out of a slow turn with 516 lb. ft. of torque that the throttle must be applied carefully to avoid a violent overseer situation.
The course that Top Gear set up seemed to be varied in the types of turns and lengths of straight-of-ways. True , there are courses that may favor one car over another, but in this case the course had tight parts to it and it had long parts to it, so both agility and HP I feel were tested on their course.
- Bob
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From: .
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Originally Posted by Evolution Marine
Frank Wiesmann - I think I understand your point. However, I assume a few things when Top Gear tests a car. One, all the cars are tested on the same track - Two, all the cars are driven by the same Driver - Three, The Driver spends some time with each car determining what each car likes in-order to run it's quickest lap times - and Forth, the driver is highly skilled.
Now with those assumptions in hand, the fact that the CLS55 ran that lap .1 sec faster than the GT3's fast lap and did so sliding a bit more than you would think is an efficient line around the track, really does not matter. I say this because obviously the CLS55 likes to be drifted a little and, because of its 4100 lbs, would need to carry as much speed thru a corner in-order to accelerate, at its optimum level, down the next straight. Also, all the sliding was occurring on the long, relatively gentle turns, however in the tight part of the course sliding was non-existent. I am sure the driver figured out that coming out of a slow turn with 516 lb. ft. of torque that the throttle must be applied carefully to avoid a violent overseer situation.
The course that Top Gear set up seemed to be varied in the types of turns and lengths of straight-of-ways. True , there are courses that may favor one car over another, but in this case the course had tight parts to it and it had long parts to it, so both agility and HP I feel were tested on their course. - Bob
Now with those assumptions in hand, the fact that the CLS55 ran that lap .1 sec faster than the GT3's fast lap and did so sliding a bit more than you would think is an efficient line around the track, really does not matter. I say this because obviously the CLS55 likes to be drifted a little and, because of its 4100 lbs, would need to carry as much speed thru a corner in-order to accelerate, at its optimum level, down the next straight. Also, all the sliding was occurring on the long, relatively gentle turns, however in the tight part of the course sliding was non-existent. I am sure the driver figured out that coming out of a slow turn with 516 lb. ft. of torque that the throttle must be applied carefully to avoid a violent overseer situation.
The course that Top Gear set up seemed to be varied in the types of turns and lengths of straight-of-ways. True , there are courses that may favor one car over another, but in this case the course had tight parts to it and it had long parts to it, so both agility and HP I feel were tested on their course.
- Bobthe way i see it is that the tests are just a bit of fun, and are not meant to be taken as gospel
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Super Member
Joined: May 2004
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From: LI, NYC
NEW 08' M6 CAB, 06' 997 911 CS CAB, 09' RX350 AWD, 10' E350 4M, 10' Range Rover; FS: 04' C32 AMG= FS
david_101 your welcome
Originally Posted by david_101
that CLE is a fine looking coupe. thanks for the lead.
Banned
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Posts: 246
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From: Miami Beach
BS
just to clear things up, I have and have had both the GT3 and CLS55. They are completely different cars, but when it comes to a track, with real driving, the CLS55 doesn't stand a chance. In fact, unless the track has 4 turns and is an oval, there is no way. On a true road course, the GT3 would walk away from the CLS55 pretty remarkably.
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,092
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From: Salt Lake City (but not Morm)
2003 E55 & 2014 GL550
sigh...yeah, that's on the money. Damn those GT3's.
Lap Times
Porsche GT3 RS - 1.22.3
Murcielago - 1.23.7
Zonda - 1.23.8
Koenigsegg - 1.23.9
Noble - 1.25.0
Gallardo - 1.25.8
Lotus Exige - 1.26.4
Chevrolet Corvette - 1.26.8
Mercedes CLS 55 AMG - 1.26.9
Lap Times
Porsche GT3 RS - 1.22.3
Murcielago - 1.23.7
Zonda - 1.23.8
Koenigsegg - 1.23.9
Noble - 1.25.0
Gallardo - 1.25.8
Lotus Exige - 1.26.4
Chevrolet Corvette - 1.26.8
Mercedes CLS 55 AMG - 1.26.9
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,894
Likes: 8
From: Connecticut
2003 CLK55
I guess sign me up for the train!!!
I totally understand where this guy is coming from. There is no way in hell I would want to get a CLS55 if there is a chance the CLS63 is coming in the very near future! I don't think anyone would.
Its all the same with Mercedes....they come out with updates and model changes way too soon. For example look at me....I bought my CLK55 in 2003 and not two years later the 2005 CLK55 gets better brakes....bigger tires....dual exhaust...updated front end....updated interior....anything else I left out?
Of course now I'm kinda pissed that these changes happened so soon.....but if I had bought a 2004 CLK55 then I'd be really fuming.
I can't be all that pissed though, I have really enjoyed my car for two years. Live for now....oops I guess that kinda kills my original point!
I totally understand where this guy is coming from. There is no way in hell I would want to get a CLS55 if there is a chance the CLS63 is coming in the very near future! I don't think anyone would.
Its all the same with Mercedes....they come out with updates and model changes way too soon. For example look at me....I bought my CLK55 in 2003 and not two years later the 2005 CLK55 gets better brakes....bigger tires....dual exhaust...updated front end....updated interior....anything else I left out?
Of course now I'm kinda pissed that these changes happened so soon.....but if I had bought a 2004 CLK55 then I'd be really fuming.
I can't be all that pissed though, I have really enjoyed my car for two years. Live for now....oops I guess that kinda kills my original point!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,054
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From: Nashville
300SEL
Originally Posted by Stiggs
I guess sign me up for the train!!!
I totally understand where this guy is coming from. There is no way in hell I would want to get a CLS55 if there is a chance the CLS63 is coming in the very near future! I don't think anyone would.
Its all the same with Mercedes....they come out with updates and model changes way too soon. For example look at me....I bought my CLK55 in 2003 and not two years later the 2005 CLK55 gets better brakes....bigger tires....dual exhaust...updated front end....updated interior....anything else I left out?
Of course now I'm kinda pissed that these changes happened so soon.....but if I had bought a 2004 CLK55 then I'd be really fuming.
I can't be all that pissed though, I have really enjoyed my car for two years. Live for now....oops I guess that kinda kills my original point!
I totally understand where this guy is coming from. There is no way in hell I would want to get a CLS55 if there is a chance the CLS63 is coming in the very near future! I don't think anyone would.
Its all the same with Mercedes....they come out with updates and model changes way too soon. For example look at me....I bought my CLK55 in 2003 and not two years later the 2005 CLK55 gets better brakes....bigger tires....dual exhaust...updated front end....updated interior....anything else I left out?
Of course now I'm kinda pissed that these changes happened so soon.....but if I had bought a 2004 CLK55 then I'd be really fuming.
I can't be all that pissed though, I have really enjoyed my car for two years. Live for now....oops I guess that kinda kills my original point!
MBWorld Fanatic!
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CLS55 AMG & RRS S/C
well changes like the ones on the clk55 are to be expected in almost any car, and woth the e55 it was a whole new model when they added the kompressor. but if they released a cls63 in the next couple years its gonna be unfair for us cls55 owners.
not that MB really cares though
not that MB really cares though
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,054
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From: Nashville
300SEL
MB is not a big fan of mid-cycle engine changes anyway. Re-certification costs money. I don't expect to see the 63 motors in the E/CLS's for quite some time.
First, you will see these engines in the S-Class, then maybe the year after that in the E/CLS. Even this I doubt, unless MB doesn't want to build s/c cars anymore altogether. The 2006 CLS is a 55k motor and I would more than expect to see the 55k in the 2007 also. When the E500 gets 388hp, then you will see the 63s.
First, you will see these engines in the S-Class, then maybe the year after that in the E/CLS. Even this I doubt, unless MB doesn't want to build s/c cars anymore altogether. The 2006 CLS is a 55k motor and I would more than expect to see the 55k in the 2007 also. When the E500 gets 388hp, then you will see the 63s.
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From: Phoenix, AZ
05 C55 Silver/Black, 03 Escalade, 07 MV Agusta F4 1000R & GSX-R 750
CLS AMG vs. GT3....Really?
Originally Posted by Evolution Marine
mw231 - "Top Gear" tested the CLS55 on their road course that they test all their cars on and low and behold the the relatively portly CLS55 was quicker than the GT3 by .1 sec. 
- Bob
Heres the video, select Top Gear and then CLS55 -
http://www.mysubprofile.com/mbworld/
- BobHeres the video, select Top Gear and then CLS55 -
http://www.mysubprofile.com/mbworld/
You guyz kill me with this part of the thread. No doubt the CLS55 AMG is STUNNING in every way. As well as the GT3. To compare them in the same category, let alone on the track, is completely fullish.
If you guyz watch the video again, you'll notice the GT3's lap time was IN THE RAIN
and still posted basically the same time as the CLS AMG fully tapped out on a dry track !!! Case closed....... BTW...I'd take the CLS55 over the GT3 all day!!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,054
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From: Nashville
300SEL
Originally Posted by AZ AMG
--------------------------------------------------------------
You guyz kill me with this part of the thread. No doubt the CLS55 AMG is STUNNING in every way. As well as the GT3. To compare them in the same category, let alone on the track, is completely fullish.
If you guyz watch the video again, you'll notice the GT3's lap time was IN THE RAIN and still posted basically the same time as the CLS AMG fully tapped out on a dry track !!! Case closed....... BTW...I'd take the CLS55 over the GT3 all day!!
You guyz kill me with this part of the thread. No doubt the CLS55 AMG is STUNNING in every way. As well as the GT3. To compare them in the same category, let alone on the track, is completely fullish.
If you guyz watch the video again, you'll notice the GT3's lap time was IN THE RAIN
and still posted basically the same time as the CLS AMG fully tapped out on a dry track !!! Case closed....... BTW...I'd take the CLS55 over the GT3 all day!!
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Originally Posted by schwarzwagen
I wouldn't. Have you driven a 996 in any form? It's much more fun to drive than an MB. I do agree that the MB is a totally different kind of car; you cannot compare the two on the same basis.
The GT3 is a rough track car. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't driven other things or the GT3 itself.
If you think it's an ideal daily driver, join the SEALS.
