moldowan

since the cls55 is only a "06 production vehicle and i read somewhere that there are/were only 1500 cls55 shipped to the states I can't see why this would not effect the resale value in a tremendous way (good).
Being that it is mod'able easier, more torqe than 6.3 I'm glad i bought one over waiting for a 6.3
what do you guys think????
-Moldy

CLS_AMG

I agree.

Ted Baldwin

.........I agree with you that the 5.5L s/ced AMG engines are great and more easily modified compared to the 6.3L NA engine. However, they are by no means limited production cars, even in the CL55. Further, there will likely be a twin turbo 6.3L V8. Cars are depreciating liabilities no matter what "limited production" tag name is attached to them help them sell. You have a great car, enjoy your it.

Ted

EFant

I agree totally. I think they will hold their value real well. People just like having a supercharged car with tremendous mid-range torque.

CLS_AMG

They are by all means limited production cars and then to only be produced for one year. Wow

clos

this is why I lease...limited production I agree but IMO I don't think it means much to someone who always wants to have something new. I love my car it is definately the best car I have ever owned. But I also thought that about my e320 when I bought it. I was one of the first to have the exact same car in Men In Black. black on black sport fully loaded. I used to get in to that car and have a smile from ear to ear. That lasted for about 2 years when I started to think about what to get next.

I had this conversation with some freinds the other day about my car. No matter what kind of car it is and how rare it is. I will eventually get bored of it becuase and there are many people like me with even deeper pockets than me that are constantly getting bored and changing cars every year. This will forever affect the resale value of the any car.

So IMO the bottom line is this, when you purchase or lease a vehicle make sure it is something that you are going to enjoy be it for 3 years or ten years this falls all on you not the car.....the grass is always greener on the other side.

Clos

moldowan

I get a new car every 12 to 18 months anyway. I hope this one keeps my attention for at least 2 years <VBG>
coming from a cts-v as my "daily" this is nice to have the refinement, the power, and luxury all in one! Plus the wife loves it!!!! so thats good-LOL
-Moldy

Ted Baldwin

...........ok, whatever makes you happy. AMG cars are awesome cars but they are mass produced for as many people as can buy them. The so called limited production 2006 CLS55 is based on MB's calculation of how many units the market can handle, given that a new model (the CL63) is coming out. MB is in business to make money. They are not just going refuse to sell cars to people who have the cash to buy them. If based on their calculation, 200,000 CLS55's can be sold in 06, you can bet they will ship 200,000 CLS55's. This in my mind does not make the CLS55 any less desirable. If the idea of limited production appeals to you, then consider your car a limited production car and enjoy it. Whatever gets your juices flowing.

Ted

CLS_AMG

OK...Thanks.

DFW01E55

You suffer from AADD, (automotive attention deficit disorder). Financial ruin is the only known cure (long live your sickness).

Throwing money at your disease is the only way to relieve the symptoms.

Among my favorite maxims for life is ... "So many cars, so little time."

Stiggs

I like that!

JLP

MB/AMG couldn't hand build 200,000 5.5 V-8s a year if they tried, also MB only sold 225,000 cars in total in North America last year so your numbers are a little bit of a stretch, but I get your drift.

benzmodz

Five years from now it will be a five year old car and no person will remember or even know where to buy engine mods. You can bet that even Kleeman will have lost interest by then.

Dont believe me ? Look at how rare 1999 engine mods are !

Car dealers generally dont care one bit .... its all about odometer and years.

moldowan

Yeah you are prob. right. Im mean look at the rs6 (mods), but that has held its value quite nice compared to a 2003 e55 .
-moldy

david_101

i'm sorry, but i disagree that MB would build and sell as many CLS55s as possible. to do so would make the CLS500 a less desirable vehicle.

i believe that the formula for CLS55 builds should roughly be:
calculate minimum total yearly demand, then
build no more than 75% of it.

effectively, create demand for the lesser car by creating unsuppliable demand for the greater car. in other words, buyers would get a piece of the unattainable performance car by purchasing the more common car.

Ted Baldwin

.............you forget that the non AMG cars get released first. According to your argument, MB will release the AMG cars first in order to great demand for the non AMG ones.

..............anyone that walks into an MB dealership with cash in hand to buy any vehicle, even a maybach or an SLR, WILL get one. There is no velvet rope. The dealer will find you one. It may take a little while, but you WILL get one. I understand the idea that you don't want to oversupply a product, thereby lowering its value. However, this is not like buying a a Van Gogh. With extremely rare exceptions, all cars loose value, even the enzo. Talk to the guys that created the Lotec. Here it is on ebay with no takers. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Merce...spagenameZWDVWTalk about a true one of a kind car..........but yep, it lost its value.

Ted

david_101

again, i must disagree.

nowhere does my argument imply that AMG cars should be or are released first. the automotive and general press usually put out thinly veiled promotional pieces that might as well have been written by the manufacturers' own marketing departments.

anybody interested in cars -- people such as ourselves -- begin the conversations and the buzz follows. spy pics are released to capture the imagination, and then the "future" models are shown around the globe at auto shows, sometimes amidst fanfare and ceremony.

those auto shows are attended by far more than chatters such as ourselves. and then the articles and conversations and buzz continue, commensurate with the desirability of the subject cars.

it's really rather an ingenious methodology, creating demand for one thing and then satisfying it with a near substitute. it's like selling the sizzle without the steak. like selling a 5k sport package to dress a car as the one the owner aspires to have...but doesn't have...yet. like (trying) to sell a 15k "performance package" to dress and tweak a car so that it appears and feels more like the ultimate, and possibly unattainable, car near it in the showroom. or the one driving or parked near it on the roads.

even politicians have learned to use some of these methods. unfortunately, politicians and automakers alike are unable to sell a sow's ear as a silk purse for any length of time. translation: at some point, reality will catch up with perception.

let me ask you, why do so many 500s have AMG badges affixed to them? i see them all over, be they on SLs or Ss or CLs. and their drivers often PAY to have them parked in prominent spots.

Ted Baldwin

...........The folks that have fake AMG badges etc either are unable to afford an AMG or choose not to buy an AMG. There is no question that the AMG brand is desirable. Where I differ is that your argument continues to assume that MB is artificially holding down the number of available AMG models beyond what the demand requires. If this were true then there will be significant numbers of people who can afford an AMG and want an AMG but cannot find an AMG to purchase. There will be scarcity of AMG cars.........but there isn't.

...............This is the same issue with diamonds. Anyone that wants a diamnond and can afford it WILL be able to get a diamond. Diamonds are desirable but not scarce. A jeweler is not going to refuse to sell you a diamond if you have the cash. People that cannot afford diamonds or those that choose not to buy diamonds, buy cubic zirchonians(sp).............are they doing this because diamonds are so scarce that they cannot find any.....no. AMG's are desirable but not scarce. The number of AMG cars available is based on the number of cars the manufactures think they can sell, not some artificially low number to create artificial scarcity and make AMG owners feel good.

Ted

david_101

i have to disagree again.

i wrote what i BELIEVE MB should do, not what it does. i certainly would like to know the actual strategy.

and i do not believe they produce as many AMGs as they can sell.

in fact, there often are waits -- sometimes months -- to get a particular car. true?

regarding your example of diamonds, i believe you made my point for me. having funds enough to purchase a stone doesn't necessarily mean a stone is available. it is next to impossible to find a precise stone; but it is almost always possible to find a stone very close to one's specifications. it might also be possible to cut or re-cut a particular stone to one's specifications.

regarding appreciation and depreciation, it's always the case that one makes or loses money at the purchase (in a stable market), not at the sale. while autos are almost always depreciating assets, if one purchases properly, one can make money on the car. it's the very same for stones.

the essence to all of this is relative demand. thats the basis for value and valuation. if one can create demand to pull product through the channel, and then control supply, one can write one's own price on the tag...up to a some limit that only experience will determine. i believe this is not dissimilar to what MB does with AMG.

Stiggs

I think I understand what everyone is arguing about.
I agree with whom ever said AMG's are desirable....but not rare.
Go on Autotrader right now and see all the CLS55's for sale...look at any AMG for that matter. If you want one you can find one! As far as depreciation goes, here's an example....I wanted to get a CLS55 from my dealer last Sept. The car I wanted had an MSRP of $92K. I've found the exact same car on the MBUSA national preowned inventory search right now for $86K (has exact same options). Now I wonder if I wait until the CLS63's come out how much more will this car go down?

david_101

yes, but a preowned car does not entitle you to the same legal rights as a new one. and it could be argued that the new car premium, while it might go into the seller's pocket, it also purchases valuable rights for the buyer.

as for arguing, i'm not attempting to do so in the common sense. it's really just academic argumentation, discussion of points to arrive at an understanding.

as for depreciation precipitated by the CLS63 release, i believe that if the premium over a comparable CLS55 is great enough, the market price of the 55 would remain more solid than it might otherwise.

CLS_AMG

A used CLS55 is only 6k less than a brand new? That's pretty amazing in itself and great news for CLS55 owners.

Stiggs

Yeah....but I haven't tried to get him down any lower yet. I bet it would go lower!

Stiggs

A more appropriate word should have been debating. Sorry.

siswati

Actually TED, as far as I know from conversations with Mr. AMG-USA Rob Allan, AMG produces 1,250 AMG units per model per year (CLS55, C55 etc.) except for the E series where they produce 2,500 units per annum. With all the models, they produce about 18,000 AMG units per annum.

So in a way the CLS55 will have a low production run of around 1,250 units in total, prior to the release of the CLS63. Will this have any effect on the resale value? I doubt it. But way down the road, in say 20 -30 years when these "mass produced" cars are beginning to disappear, maybe it will have some impact. It certainly did on my 1984 SL500 - there were only 2,000 units ever built that featured the oversquare 5L engine and it commanded way better resale prices than 84 380SL's or 85 560SL's......