bigben320e

Improviz has a good point. Mercedes does and has some quality issues, and that's not even up for debate. There are many horror stories documented and how people paid for 100K MB's and within less than 10K miles they start falling apart in the 99-03 years.

Now, this is not too say this is the current trend at present and obviously MB has improved on cars due to QC improvement. The newer MB's statistically have less issues, but there are still some lemons out there. Guess what though? All automakers have lemons in the bunch.

Personally, I have had pretty good luck with my MB's, but I did get the MB 100K warranty on my CLS I am keeping it. I have a 98E320 with 187K miles on it, and just a left cat was the major repair on it. The rest have been routine service intervals.

On topic, we are degrading prices? No, that is the wrong statement. The market has degraded prices on many expensive goods. Jewels, furs, cars (high end especially), huge homes are now on the cheap and can be had for almost pennies on the dollar now. Many of the 500K and up homes have become dead weight, and degrading for no use on the the market today. Houses are becoming liabilities instead of assets in some cases. Makes you wonder, should some thing have cost that much in the first place?

I think we as consumers have been screwed so bad by some well known parties that we have been duped into thinking it's the GP that caused the problem. A few greedy, opportunistic people saw a chance to rape and pillage and did so. We suffer for it now. No jobs, no home, no money equals to sitting goods. More than 13 months of house surplus. Do you realize that thousands of MB's, Lexus, Toyota's are sitting at docks for months due to dealers are refusing them?

Check it out: http://www.cnbc.com/id/27795692

So, for the cars, it's a buyers market. Not a sellers, and I have pointed this out before. It won't be a sellers market again for a long time to come either. I know, I benefited greatly from my MB purchases. No use crying over it, for now it is reality. It sucks for some, and for some not.

Improviz

Yeah, it's sickening...this pretty much sums up how I feel:

Improviz

I was looking up info about a potential gift on Consumer Reports' website, and decided to check the vehicle reliability section; they recently released the 2009 survey and I hadn't seen it yet...and I'm happy to report that while Benz is still near the bottom overall in brands (27th out of 34), they have shown marked improvement:

• They've moved up by five slots in the ratings (BMW moved down by three to 20th);
• All but a few models have moved up to average, or right about at it (either a tiny bit below or above);
• Only those few models seem to be dragging the brand down.

More good news: they've added the following six models (trims for a few) to the "recommended" list:
C Class
E350
ML350
S550
SL Class
SLK Class

The S Class is now rated about 5% above average, as is the CLK! Considering that just a few years ago both were somewhere in the xx% (forget how low, but it was pretty bad) below average, this is a remarkable achievement. The E Class and C Class are both just below average (-5% or so)...E Class AWD is worse, around -10%. SL is now 20% above average, SLK is at -5%.

SUVs: M Class V6 is at maybe -2%, ML CDI is at -5% or so (I'll take that; we just got one last year!! ), R Class is horrible, -50%, and M Class V8 model is even worse, below 60%...in fact, it, the BMW X5 V8, and the Audi Q7 V6 are languishing at the bottom, along with the Cadillac SRX, the VW Toureg and the Range Rover. In larger SUVs, the G class is another bottom feeder, the CDI and V8 models coming in at next to last and last place respectively.

Now for some bad news for us CLS guys. CLS...well, not so good. -40%. However, this is based upon survey data only on MY 2006 cars; they don't have enough responses for the '07 and '08 models to quantify them...so maybe this was just first year gremlins...

Still, as a whole reliability is definitely trending up, so it looks like Benz's recent statements about quality improvement weren't just blowing smoke. Let's hope this continues!!

ApproachingZero

Improviz,

That stinks that you have quality concerns but my family has had none other that maintenance stuff.

Case in point:

My 2000 CLK 430 with 99,000. 0 problems other than oil changes and tranny flush. I saw what they did when the car was traded in and it was your regular spark plug, wires, tires, pad, e.t.c.

My Fiancés 1999 ML430 156,000: 1 stop light sensor that I replaced for $15 and a crank positioning sensor that was probably original for $150 parts/labor. WE have gotten news tires and pads (I have records showing the fronts made it nearly 70K miles) plus oil change and filter. We drive this everywhere and have a lot of fun still. Of course it has some rattles now, but the previous owner had kids and did a lot of driving for work. The drive train feels stronger than ever

My 2004 E55: I took this in for the replacement of a air bladder for the drivers side dynamic seat. According to the dealer it is quite rare for it to break let alone have the option. Other than that it has been a dream.

My Fiancés mothers 2004 C280: What a gem. They put 30K in the last 4 years and had one issue with a leaky transmission seal that was corrected and never worried about again.

My fiancés mother got a 2008 C300. So far it has 6K and 0 issues other than a teeny bopper rear ending her… It was pretty minor and corrected. I have to say the car held up really well. The girl was driving a older truck and it pushed the front bumper into the radiator. The truck had to be towed. AS for the Merc it had some scuffs and a minor crack, but all the clips were still intact.


I have bought all my cars locally and look for extensive repair history. So far Merc has been a far more reliable car than my Volkswagens, BMW’s and Acura’s.

Improviz

....every brand has issues with some cars, and non-issues w/others. The best way to look at it is via surveys, which give you an average for the brand, which is why I like Consumer Reports: they had over 1.4 million responses this year, which is a pretty substantial data set.

But even in the worst-rated brands, most people do not have a particular issue. Here's an example of a chart they did comparing the 2004 VW Toureg to the 2004 Toyota Highlander. It shows the percentage of owners who had problems with certain areas. So, for example, 1% of Highlander owners had problems with their tire pressure monitoring system, while 19% of Toureg owners did, etc....

% OF OWNERS WHO HAD THESE PROBLEMS IN A YEAR
RELIABLE UNRELIABLE (their all-caps typing, not mine! )
2004 Toyota Highlander 2004 Volkswagen Touareg
1% Tire-pressure monitoring system 19%
0% Keyless-entry system 10%
1% Premature brake wear 10%
1% Check-engine light 8%
1% CD player 6%
0% Rear hatch 6%
0% Navigation system 5%
2% Squeaks and rattles 5%
0% Driveshaft and axle 4%

So, as you can see, even though the Toureg was 19 times more likely to have problems w/tire pressure monitoring, 81% of Toureg owners didn't have issues with it, etc...but the point is that Toureg owners are far far more likely to have issues than Highlander owners. Same thing w/the Benzes for the most part, although again they're definitely showing improvement.

finiteyoda

Hmmm... I don't disagree that statistically an MB would have more issues than, say, a Lexus, but I wonder if CR takes into account the complexity of the cars (obviously the more complex a car is, the more likely it is to have things break). Also, it'd be interesting to see the cost of maintenance (the combination of both scheduled service costs, plus when things break), as that would seem a lot more relevant to most buyers than just knowing their car is the "most reliable" or "least reliable".

Ted Baldwin

.......i can't resist. Why do people keep falling for the limited production nonsense when it comes to AMG's? This was hotly ebated in the CLK633 BS forum. There are people in that forum who honestly thought that the CLK63 BS will be so rare that the resale values will go up, higher than the original inflated price of $130K. Now you can find them on ebay for $80K.

Yes, your Mercedes, AMG or not, WILL TANK IN VALUE!!!!. If this bothers you, then buy a used one instead of a new one. Stop disparaging those who buy infinity's and Hondas. Maybe, those folks actually like their cars too. Yes, they may admire your CLS, but they laugh at you for making a stupid financial decision. Afterall, who is the one complaining bitterly now?

Final word, stop falling for the limited production nonsense!!! The market determines what things are worth. And........the market has spoken. Your CLS55 AMG is worth $47K, even it it was the only CLS ever made. It sold at the same price as a 2005 CL65.........which as you know was twice the price of your car when both cars were brand new. Maybe the 65 owner should hang himself?


Ted

bigben320e

Ted, you are repating what I said, but in a different format. Yes you are correct.

Personally, I don't buy new cars anymore. I buy used, low miles, perfect history cars. AMG's, and any other Benz's are and have tanked in value, but so have many brands of higher end cars. The market is shredded, few buyers, many sellers = low prices/valuation. Bottom line.

Improviz

Well, the Lexus LS640 isn't exactly a neophyte in the complexity department, and yet it is one of the best-rated cars reliability-wise.

In my experience the recommended maintenance at the Benz dealership is typically substantially more, say, 30-40%.

They do this, year by year. Basically their charts show reliability for each MY, and it is separated out into categories, so you can see what areas are more likely to have trouble spots as the vehicles age (or even within the first few years, for that matter)

I disagree...if you figure that it's pretty hard to get anything fixed at a Benz service department for less than $500, and in many cases double or triple that, it can add up pretty quickly if you've got only two or three unscheduled visits per year.

For me, what's most reliable is the car that'll be in the shop the least, so that I don't have to take time out of my schedule, and money out of my wallet, to mess around with fixing things that, had they been properly QC'd, would never fail in the first place.

Example: I was reading in this month's Automobile magazine that the 1971 300 SEL 6.3 featured in an article in the mag has a factory-equipped air suspension. Which means that Benz has been producing these things for at least 37 years.

And yet, judging by what I've read in the W211 forum, the Sxxx and CLxxx forums, and here, it's not a question of *if* it will go out, but *when*. So after 37+ years of producing these things, they can't come up with one that will go for a decent amount of time without breaking?

Similarly, Benz motor mounts are notorious for failing on the V8 equipped cars. I had both fail on my CLK55, along with the transmission mounts, and again from reading the forums and talking w/friends who own them, this was and is endemic. We aren't talking rocket science here, and it's absurd that they haven't a) recognized this problem, b) issued a recall to install motor mounts that actually last more than a few years, and c) fixed it in the newer models.

I gave them one more shot (and frankly, the only reason my wife has one is because she wanted a Benz despite my best efforts to talk her out of it), but this is it....if this baby starts crapping out on me like the CLK55 did, I'll have to bite the bullet and leave the fold until they get their quality numbers up...which as I said it looks like they are doing, so if present trends continue, even if mine has issues, the one thing that may lead me to stick with them if the numbers on the newer ones keep improving. But my loyalty is to my wallet and to my time, not to a brand, even though I just absolutely love this car. I really hope it holds up, because it's a fantastic vehicle.

Time will tell. I do love the car, and hope it beats the numbers I'm seeing in CU by a substantial margin...but I hoped that with my CLK as well, and in the end it failed me miserably. And if you want to know how much I loved that car, have a look at my posting history.

finiteyoda

Wow, that was long post to read, but good luck and here's hoping your cls holds up for ya Everyone's got their different priorities, that's why we have different cars for different reasons. If reliability was the #1 concern, we'd all be driving Lexus' probably, meanwhile there's always gonna be others who are willing to pay the extra cost to own a car like MB or BMW... for me that's worth it, but maybe I'll change my mind if something serious breaks on mine, haha.

Regarding inventory, unfortunately, low numbers doesn't make a car appreciate. Even ferrari's like the 430 and 599 are getting hit hard with depreciation this year. As others have said, definitely a buyer's market.

Improviz

Well, that's the thing....extra entry price isn't a big deal to me, but I just can't stand stuff going south on me...particularly expensive stuff. So, we'll see. I love the car enough to have purchased it despite the troubles w/the CLK, and am hopeful that the CLK will be a one-off experience.

Yeah, definitely. It's a jungle out there, and unfortunately it will be for some time.

isellpower

Here ya go chief. 06 with 40K miles for 34K with a few mods. Read his description and you'll see him mention that he's trying to get 34.5K for the car. I am bidding on it, but I will stop at 34K. As I have said before it is not just AMG, but most all cars. There's an 06 Gallardo on ferrarichat for 97K. Since you like to stalk me I thought I should keep you up to date on CLS pricing on the used market. Sure it's only one car, but it keeps buyers like myself on the sidelines waiting for the same deal or even a little better. I'll keep you posted needsimprovitz.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...3AIT&viewitem=

Improviz

Yawn....again you show your total ignorance when it comes to car pricing. First off, you're rounding down rather deceitfully: it actually has 41.7K miles, not 40K miles....but funny thing, though: according to its last service at Mercedes Benz of Pompano Beach, FL, it had 44,220 miles when it was serviced there on 11/20/08...can you say "possible rollback" or "possibly deceptive ad"?

Edit: well, change "possibly deceptive" to "flat out SCAM", isellpoofter; as seen below, it's a bogus ad using retardedmunk's car, vin, pictures, the works, which he just SOLD, and which the current owner has verified is not for sale.

Nicely done.

Next?

retardedmunk

Car on ebay is a scam... as I mentioned in a previous post...My car in those pics sold for $49k to a board member....and he got a GREAT DEAL....I know the auctions better then most on this board and the car I sold was still a hard find....and with the wheels and warranty... you cant beat it with KY and a silly doll

Prior to the new owner buying my car ... I had 2 other offers on the car one from a personal friend of mine who is a NFL player and another from a die hard Benz fanatic....both offered me the asking price of $50k which was what I was asking on autotrader....I am not hard up for money so Oneil put the cash in my hand first and we sealed the deal....my NFL buddy has 9 cars and Oneil will appreciate my car a lot more in the long run...

The new owner's name is Oneil... a great guy ..and even more informed about the CLS then I was.... he even had a new steering wheel picked out for my car before I sold it to him... CLKBS steering wheel... He had seen a few cars prior to buying mine and my car was simply a bad *** ride....ANYBODY WHO SAW IT....would agree....now Oneil has the baddest CLS55 in the country as far as I am concerned.....


I actually sold it with a little over 45k miles... I drove the car a lot more during the time I was selling it.... knowing I would not have it long....the car sold for $49k to Oneil ..... it went originally for $47,200 on ebay and the buyer had no funds and also had a CLS ..... I was assuming he was trying to add value to his car.... truth behold I highly doubt his car was anything like mine and now he has a bad ebay account

I bought the car with 39k miles and drove it for 6k miles for about 8 months or so... I added Seva wheels and warranty(priceless)...why the car sold for the price it did IT LOOKED ****ING BAD ***.....not to mention when the new owner came to see it ...his name is Oneil..... he was impressed with the condition of the car since it was almost like NEW.......the car had almost no warranty issues .... very reliable and I kept her in amazing condition... I sold an E55 to TIMELESS on the board over a year ago...... he too was impressed by my 45k plus mile E55....If you treat a car right .... mileage is jack ****.....MODS HELPED THE SALE OF MY CAR.... I would of bought my car for what I was given in a heart beat if I was looking for a CLS55 again.... it was just that cool of a car....a package deal worth the dough.....it was also a loaded out car with the right COLOR combo .....

$34k? Are you ****ing serious... give me 4 ... I got the cash .... you can't
even buy a used 2008 G37 Inifiniti for that right now....and a CLS55 is worlds apart from most cars on the road.... tell your neighbor who owns the new
BMW 335CI he just paid $40k for that you bought a CLS55 for $34k that looks even close to the way my car looked and he will be sucking your dick for stock and investment advice forever....

A gallardo for $97k? Why it is a poor man's Lambo and besides have you driven one lately?...I wouldnt own one.... I am in the process of buying a low mile Lambo Murc for under $90k right now.....I own one and for the deal I am getting on this new one... I might sell mine and keep the change


Goodnight gents....

Improviz

Nice work, dude...you bid on a scam car, same VIN as retardedmonk's, same pictures, right down the line...only problem: the car's not for sale!!

Read all about it, isellpoofter:

Mr. isellpoofter, there is a word for what you just got....and it is:

Take your little lowball jihad somewhere else...you aren't having much luck on these forums; maybe you could convince some people that your wishful thinking wrt CLS pricing is the gospel here:

DucatiNut

As they say a picture is worth a thousand words.
Improviz,; I think he is not worth the time.
(BTW .....Got my warranty info and can email a scanned version if you like. PM your email if you so wish. (Am MAC based so your address will be safe))

oslowley

I am the purchaser of retardedmunk's cls and to be honest I was watching it for quite some time hoping that the price would fall into my budget and it did. The car is immaculate inside and out and it is absolutely stunning to look at, the mods definitely sold the car. Thanks to retardedmunk for keeping this car in such excellent shape and hopefully i'll be able to buy that Murci from him when it's time to upgrade.

bigben320e

Isellpower is an idiot obviously. From the looks of it, he must have been the last bidder on a scam ebay listing. Ownage and pure fail, real American style.

Here is something to help you out:

princemarko

Performance Saloons are the worst cars for depreciation. The Maserati, Jaguars and Mercedes lose nearly 30% per year. Don't feel bad.

Maserati's retail for 125k and you can pick one up in the 40's for a 2005-06.

Jaguar XJR's.... 94k and you can buy one in the 30's for a 2005 with no problems.

The CLS's are going to bottom out in the high 30's, low 40's. Should have bought used when you are looking for 4 doors.

finiteyoda

Woah, murcie for $90k, is something wrong with it? Even with the major economy hit from this fall, I've been seeing 02-03 murcie prices settling around 140-150 mark. Share your sources with us man

finiteyoda

The CLK BS wheel is a nice choice btw, I was up at carnutz and saw them installing one (covered in red carbon fiber) into a customer car. I'd do it myself, but I really like the wood trim on my steering wheel (an option which didn't seem that common on most cls amg cars, for some reason)... Anyways, congrats on the new car! I'm sure she's a beast!!

rarfinancial

NEWS FLASH.... HIGHLINE CARS ARE NOT INVESTMENTS, ANY QUESTIONS?

You like it ? buy it, Drive it and enjoy it.. it's only money. Don't forget why you bought the cars guys..

jl88

Murcielago for 90k? That's a bit ridiculous. A 2002 Murcielago with carfax damage was easily sold for mid/upper 120k's by Cats Exotics.

The only sub 100k Murcielago's for sale are the ones with branded titles.

If you can get a clean title Murcielago for 90k, more power to you. Seems highly suspect though.

bigben320e

It could happen, and be legit. Desperate times, desperate measures.

Yacht Master

A 1973 911 rs just sold for $320,000.00
A 1973 911 rsr just sold for $740,000.00

The rich are getting richer...