CLS55 stereo improvements
02-12-2009, 09:40 PM
#26
MBWorld Fanatic!
custom fiberglass enclosures that go down by your feet (left for driver, right for passenger).
Ok, I got the idea ... but if yo have a pic, it s welcomed
higher frequencies tend to be easier for us humans
to distinguish even slight variance in distance. Therefore a tweeter (or midbass for that matter) at the top of the door panel will be 1 ft away from the drivers left ear while the other one will be 3 feet away from the drivers right ear creating a strange sound stage.
Ideally the 'right' sound stage will have the listener be equidistant between frontal speakers. Unfortunately in a car we need to deal with strange ergonomics. Kick panels are used to maximize the distance between the listener and the speakers but more importantly create a much smaller % difference between the distance of left/right ears and therefore creating a more 'accurate' sound stage. (i.e., left:right -- 3ft:4ft instead of 1ft:3ft)
indeed there are devices to manage timing between speakers .. I was waiting for MS-8 and its Audissey based auto equalizer, but nothing still. luckyly Audison Bit One is already out
The downside is that legs can get in the way and block higher frequencies which are much easier to muddle than lower frequencies.
Anyway...without getting into too much nonsense and true 'audiophile' debate from some people who can easily point out specific things that I'm purposely not mentioning.......just make sure it sounds good to you and that's all that matters.
My recommendation is to not put a midbass high up in the door like that. I think it's ugly, doesn't make sense to butcher a door panel, and doesn't make any sense from a sound-quality perspective.
Ok, I got the idea ... but if yo have a pic, it s welcomed
higher frequencies tend to be easier for us humans
to distinguish even slight variance in distance. Therefore a tweeter (or midbass for that matter) at the top of the door panel will be 1 ft away from the drivers left ear while the other one will be 3 feet away from the drivers right ear creating a strange sound stage.Ideally the 'right' sound stage will have the listener be equidistant between frontal speakers. Unfortunately in a car we need to deal with strange ergonomics. Kick panels are used to maximize the distance between the listener and the speakers but more importantly create a much smaller % difference between the distance of left/right ears and therefore creating a more 'accurate' sound stage. (i.e., left:right -- 3ft:4ft instead of 1ft:3ft)
indeed there are devices to manage timing between speakers .. I was waiting for MS-8 and its Audissey based auto equalizer, but nothing still. luckyly Audison Bit One is already out
The downside is that legs can get in the way and block higher frequencies which are much easier to muddle than lower frequencies.
Anyway...without getting into too much nonsense and true 'audiophile' debate from some people who can easily point out specific things that I'm purposely not mentioning.......just make sure it sounds good to you and that's all that matters.
My recommendation is to not put a midbass high up in the door like that. I think it's ugly, doesn't make sense to butcher a door panel, and doesn't make any sense from a sound-quality perspective.
the top panel option is for hosting a possible true Midrange ... seems to me something viable, also because that panel can easyly be replaced to original if not happy.
can't get why you say it doesn't make sense from audio quality perspective .. that's the canonic location for sound quality
02-12-2009, 11:26 PM
#27
Member
sorry, I typed too quick....my midbass is staying in the door but the midrange and tweeter are going into the kickpanels.
If you put a midrange in the door panel where you're marking it's going to be one foot from your left ear and about 3-4 feet from your right ear. The difference in distance will not only create a difference in the time the sound takes to reach your ears (left will get it first), but the left side will also be louder creating an unbalanced sound stage. Also remember that mid-high frequencies are much more directional than lower frequencies.
Having all the speakers in different locations through the door is also going to make it hard to set a proper sound stage and might kind of confuse the brain on which tone is coming from where (in regards to elevation).
Not saying that the system couldn't be tuned accurately, but you're certainly not going to make it easy on yourself.
....keep in mind I'm just being nitpicky. It could be done just fine, but my personal opinion is that if I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it right from a funcational standpoint which would include kickpanels or door pods.
If you put a midrange in the door panel where you're marking it's going to be one foot from your left ear and about 3-4 feet from your right ear. The difference in distance will not only create a difference in the time the sound takes to reach your ears (left will get it first), but the left side will also be louder creating an unbalanced sound stage. Also remember that mid-high frequencies are much more directional than lower frequencies.
Having all the speakers in different locations through the door is also going to make it hard to set a proper sound stage and might kind of confuse the brain on which tone is coming from where (in regards to elevation).
Not saying that the system couldn't be tuned accurately, but you're certainly not going to make it easy on yourself.
....keep in mind I'm just being nitpicky. It could be done just fine, but my personal opinion is that if I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it right from a funcational standpoint which would include kickpanels or door pods.
Last edited by azncarjunkie; 02-12-2009 at 11:29 PM.
02-13-2009, 03:37 AM
#28
MBWorld Fanatic!
sorry, I typed too quick....my midbass is staying in the door but the midrange and tweeter are going into the kickpanels.
If you put a midrange in the door panel where you're marking it's going to be one foot from your left ear and about 3-4 feet from your right ear. The difference in distance will not only create a difference in the time the sound takes to reach your ears (left will get it first), but the left side will also be louder creating an unbalanced sound stage. Also remember that mid-high frequencies are much more directional than lower frequencies.
Having all the speakers in different locations through the door is also going to make it hard to set a proper sound stage and might kind of confuse the brain on which tone is coming from where (in regards to elevation).
Not saying that the system couldn't be tuned accurately, but you're certainly not going to make it easy on yourself.
....keep in mind I'm just being nitpicky. It could be done just fine, but my personal opinion is that if I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it right from a funcational standpoint which would include kickpanels or door pods.
If you put a midrange in the door panel where you're marking it's going to be one foot from your left ear and about 3-4 feet from your right ear. The difference in distance will not only create a difference in the time the sound takes to reach your ears (left will get it first), but the left side will also be louder creating an unbalanced sound stage. Also remember that mid-high frequencies are much more directional than lower frequencies.
Having all the speakers in different locations through the door is also going to make it hard to set a proper sound stage and might kind of confuse the brain on which tone is coming from where (in regards to elevation).
Not saying that the system couldn't be tuned accurately, but you're certainly not going to make it easy on yourself.
....keep in mind I'm just being nitpicky. It could be done just fine, but my personal opinion is that if I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it right from a funcational standpoint which would include kickpanels or door pods.
I checked for distances and maybe because I'm about 190cm tall, the distance from left ear to tweeter is about 2 feet and from right ear to right tweeter it s about 3 feet
hopefully I m a bit deaf to my left ear so, maybe this will help the sound imprint even without a time alignment device
anybodyelse willing to comment?
02-14-2009, 05:38 PM
#29
MBWorld Fanatic!
must say that I'm happy with the way my installer is working .. everytime he asks for confirmation before doing something final
More, it s an official Audison Master center and these trophys maybe mean he knows how to ..
so, the spare wheel and everything will remain stock
the fifth amplifier will maybe stay hidden ..
Floor panel does not steal any room and the stock cover panel can be placed upon if necessary
I like the right panel he made into the boot: fits very well (much better than the panel that makes AMG for the E02 option)
further, behind it averything remains stock... should I want to remove everything and have it back to original
unfortunately for him, I had to write off the resonance box on top because it is no more compatible with the Frigo bar: too many volumes..
so, I decided to have it made to the end of the boot (attached to the back of rear seats) also because that are is always uncomfortable to use and, further will match better with the Frigobar.
He also wanted to present me this mechanized lifter, electronically controlled
not sure to wast emoney that way, I told him .., I will use it only if need spare wheel and am not hoping that to happen .. but it's cool!
Here we were just playing with BIT ONE ... but the hood location would be better..
I post some more general pics, in case somebody is interested tolearn how the car is made
the room under the rear dash is limited by a big mechanism of the "Rollo"
well made and isolated ..
about ALCANTARA, yes it' s the exact oem ANTHRAZIT tone !
I'm thinking of having the whole back of front seats covered with it
and maybe some more...
IDEAS PLEASE !
More, it s an official Audison Master center and these trophys maybe mean he knows how to ..
so, the spare wheel and everything will remain stock
the fifth amplifier will maybe stay hidden ..
Floor panel does not steal any room and the stock cover panel can be placed upon if necessary
I like the right panel he made into the boot: fits very well (much better than the panel that makes AMG for the E02 option)
further, behind it averything remains stock... should I want to remove everything and have it back to original
unfortunately for him, I had to write off the resonance box on top because it is no more compatible with the Frigo bar: too many volumes..
so, I decided to have it made to the end of the boot (attached to the back of rear seats) also because that are is always uncomfortable to use and, further will match better with the Frigobar.
He also wanted to present me this mechanized lifter, electronically controlled
not sure to wast emoney that way, I told him .., I will use it only if need spare wheel and am not hoping that to happen .. but it's cool!
Here we were just playing with BIT ONE ... but the hood location would be better..
I post some more general pics, in case somebody is interested tolearn how the car is made
the room under the rear dash is limited by a big mechanism of the "Rollo"
well made and isolated ..
about ALCANTARA, yes it' s the exact oem ANTHRAZIT tone !
I'm thinking of having the whole back of front seats covered with it
and maybe some more...
IDEAS PLEASE !
Last edited by dyno; 02-14-2009 at 05:50 PM.
02-14-2009, 05:46 PM
#30
MBWorld Fanatic!
unfortunately the new AMG tweter housings are not big enough to host my Morel tweeters and I have to mod the housings in any case, so, if you are interested I can give 'em to you
02-14-2009, 08:00 PM
#31
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Bowie, Md
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2006 CLS500 with 55 AMG motor, 2008 Infiniti G35, 2000 Plymouth Grand Voyager
Good stuff Dyno, I'm very impressed by the quality and engineering that you are putting into this project. Should sound awsome. 
Last edited by khelawanb; 02-15-2009 at 02:17 PM.
02-15-2009, 06:12 AM
#32
MBWorld Fanatic!
but I like much more the aesthetical side of the thing
difficult here is to avoid anything baroque styled ... the best is when a person can't detect you have modded anything, but
.. something like a "special option " feeling is perceived
the same feeling you get when you enter a normal SL and when you enter an SL65
02-15-2009, 02:12 PM
#34
MBWorld Fanatic!
02-18-2009, 01:14 AM
#36
Senior Member
02-18-2009, 03:43 AM
#37
MBWorld Fanatic!
if you are interested, PM me
ps: their qualities are already advertised in the official AMG webside
ps: their qualities are already advertised in the official AMG webside
Last edited by dyno; 02-18-2009 at 03:47 AM.
03-25-2009, 12:20 PM
#38
MBWorld Fanatic!
so .. time to update the progress.
main problems were cause by the frigobar install
it takes a lot of room
but to some extent it also helped to take the decision to exploit the long black plastic container that is located on bottom to the end of the boot:
I will put there, to the left, the fifth amp (ST100 genesis) for the center channel that didn't fit into the box above the spare wheel
I just found something to fill the right side : ... an Alumapro 15Farad capacitor that is more or less the same size as the St100 amp
the Acoustic enclosure is nearly 40 liters ... we could go much more, above 60 till the floor but for now I want to try this and save that room for luggage or something
this is the first version of the solution for holding the frigo..
final aspect could be this
.. but I just sent him this pic to mod it because I want to put on the floor the full lenght stock carpet .. therefore the frigo must stay suspended
... I said that final "could" be this bgecause just arrived a new thing, an amp I was after since long time and I'm thinking about bi-amping something ..
main problems were cause by the frigobar install
it takes a lot of room
but to some extent it also helped to take the decision to exploit the long black plastic container that is located on bottom to the end of the boot:
I will put there, to the left, the fifth amp (ST100 genesis) for the center channel that didn't fit into the box above the spare wheel
I just found something to fill the right side : ... an Alumapro 15Farad capacitor that is more or less the same size as the St100 amp
the Acoustic enclosure is nearly 40 liters ... we could go much more, above 60 till the floor but for now I want to try this and save that room for luggage or something
this is the first version of the solution for holding the frigo..
final aspect could be this
.. but I just sent him this pic to mod it because I want to put on the floor the full lenght stock carpet .. therefore the frigo must stay suspended
... I said that final "could" be this bgecause just arrived a new thing, an amp I was after since long time and I'm thinking about bi-amping something ..
03-26-2009, 04:55 AM
#40
MBWorld Fanatic!
.. I was thinking of making the trunk cover floor carpet embroiderd with a LOGO
...but the round Affalterbach logo
(the AMG logo will be on the panel below)
so, anybody can give me a link of a good quality AMG AFFALTERBACH LOGO, please ...
this is the new boy I'm thinking of placing onto the panel above the frigo
.. would like to hide it a bit but unfortunately, being it a Class A, it gets unbelievably hot
Genesis DMA Class A - Limited Edition
03-26-2009, 10:25 AM
#41
MBWorld Fanatic!
where's the REM in our Comand ?
there is another important issue: THE REMOTE AMP CONTROL
when installing additional amps you will want to switch them on and off automatically when you do the same to the radio
.. therefore you need to connect amps to the rem into the radio
but, where's the REM in our Comand
not easy ... the short answer is that you have to get the remote from the amplification stage operationals inside the audiogateway.
but this will not be a straight operation because there is a difference in the required voltage , therefore a further specific circuit is to be added...the same as we did .
the pic below shows an additional jack for the REM we put into the new Module.
further, you maybe don't want that after listening to your new super audio system if you want to start your car there will no more be enough power to let it boot
..through this rem control, the energy management system of which the car is endowed (think about the message sometimes saying "comfort function unavailable...)
... is still working, meaning that you do not bear the risk that your amps sucks all energy, leaving you unable to start the car !
when installing additional amps you will want to switch them on and off automatically when you do the same to the radio
.. therefore you need to connect amps to the rem into the radio
but, where's the REM in our Comand
not easy ... the short answer is that you have to get the remote from the amplification stage operationals inside the audiogateway.
but this will not be a straight operation because there is a difference in the required voltage , therefore a further specific circuit is to be added...the same as we did .
the pic below shows an additional jack for the REM we put into the new Module.
further, you maybe don't want that after listening to your new super audio system if you want to start your car there will no more be enough power to let it boot
..through this rem control, the energy management system of which the car is endowed (think about the message sometimes saying "comfort function unavailable...)
... is still working, meaning that you do not bear the risk that your amps sucks all energy, leaving you unable to start the car !
03-26-2009, 10:44 AM
#42
MBWorld Fanatic!
03-26-2009, 11:25 AM
#43
MBWorld Fanatic!
http://images.google.com.kw/imgres?i...3D252%26um%3D1
http://d3bbd215gfxk0q.cloudfront.net...hoto202029.jpg
03-26-2009, 03:49 PM
#44
Senior Member
AMG updated their website and the intro has a great pick of the Affalterbach logo that you could try to capture in a screenshot.
http://www.mercedes-amg.com
http://www.mercedes-amg.com
03-26-2009, 04:33 PM
#45
MBWorld Fanatic!
there is a few here on this link dyno
http://images.google.com.kw/imgres?i...3D252%26um%3D1
http://d3bbd215gfxk0q.cloudfront.net...hoto202029.jpg
http://images.google.com.kw/imgres?i...3D252%26um%3D1
http://d3bbd215gfxk0q.cloudfront.net...hoto202029.jpg
thanks .. I didn't know this, interesting.. even if is so heavy that my computer is kaputt now
second Logo.. sorry, not original
(look at the valve details)
03-26-2009, 04:37 PM
#46
MBWorld Fanatic!
AMG updated their website and the intro has a great pick of the Affalterbach logo that you could try to capture in a screenshot.
http://www.mercedes-amg.com
http://www.mercedes-amg.com
... w ewere looking at the same thing it is what I exactly did in the last hour ... interesting the new site
did you see this ...
can't understand what car is it from .. the window plate seems different from ours and the mirror seems fatter ...
03-26-2009, 05:39 PM
#47
Senior Member
The site is very cool, but I noticed they no longer advertise the AMG Performance Audio option for the CLS/E. I am still trying desperately hard to get my hands on the speakers and add on amplifier. The dealers I have gone to have no clue what I am talking about.
I just need to find one person that has the E02 option in the US and I could use their VIN number to get the appropriate part numbers. Anyone?
I just need to find one person that has the E02 option in the US and I could use their VIN number to get the appropriate part numbers. Anyone?
03-26-2009, 06:53 PM
#48
MBWorld Fanatic!
The site is very cool, but I noticed they no longer advertise the AMG Performance Audio option for the CLS/E. I am still trying desperately hard to get my hands on the speakers and add on amplifier. The dealers I have gone to have no clue what I am talking about.
I just need to find one person that has the E02 option in the US and I could use their VIN number to get the appropriate part numbers. Anyone?
I just need to find one person that has the E02 option in the US and I could use their VIN number to get the appropriate part numbers. Anyone?
2198270462 (this is referred to as M1 option Audiogateway ) about 1.3K eur
2118273262 (this is referred to as M4 option Audiogateway ) about 2K eur
I found these numbers when I was trying to learn what the full E02 option included but I didn't went further into the search because my project was different.
I cannot tell you if both parts are required or not.
You already know how much tweeters cost and if you can't find by yourself and you are ready to get these things, I can do but, sorry, don't have time to ask forth and back ... meaning that when I will have to call I will place the order and pay the advance.
hope this helps
03-26-2009, 07:19 PM
#49
Senior Member
Thanks Dyno! I will take the part numbers to my dealer to see if we can figure out why there are two parts. I'm thinking the first number is for the CLS because it starts with 219 and I believe the second one would be for the E with 211.
I still really want the tweeters but I have not been able to find the tweeter part number to see if I can order it here. But with the AGW part numbers I will see if my dealer can find the other parts. But if you can find the part number for the tweeters that could help as well.
Thanks!
I still really want the tweeters but I have not been able to find the tweeter part number to see if I can order it here. But with the AGW part numbers I will see if my dealer can find the other parts. But if you can find the part number for the tweeters that could help as well.
Thanks!
03-26-2009, 07:24 PM
#50
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thanks Dyno! I will take the part numbers to my dealer to see if we can figure out why there are two parts. I'm thinking the first number is for the CLS because it starts with 219 and I believe the second one would be for the E with 211.
... no: my CLS55 stock (Logic 7) AGW part is 2118701489
I still really want the tweeters but I have not been able to find the tweeter part number to see if I can order it here. But with the AGW part numbers I will see if my dealer can find the other parts. But if you can find the part number for the tweeters that could help as well.
Thanks!
... no: my CLS55 stock (Logic 7) AGW part is 2118701489
I still really want the tweeters but I have not been able to find the tweeter part number to see if I can order it here. But with the AGW part numbers I will see if my dealer can find the other parts. But if you can find the part number for the tweeters that could help as well.
Thanks!
