New auction results.....WOW!!!!!
12-29-2008, 03:23 AM
#26
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No insult at all, but if you know about the market as it is now with the slightly used/auction market going to a MB dealer would be nuts, correct?
12-29-2008, 05:11 PM
#27
Because they buy them at trade-in not auction prices. Manheim is pretty much private party value right now. Most dealers will probably sell at that price.
12-29-2008, 06:28 PM
#28
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CLS55, R350
I would still go for CPO and that slight piece of mind (emphasis on slight).
You would be surprised at the deals you can get at the dealer as opposed to private party.
12-29-2008, 10:54 PM
#29
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12-29-2008, 11:04 PM
#30
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Personally, I have never had a MB dealer to come close to non-MB dealers on a car. My CLS for instance was a non-CPO, and even after getting the MB Extended warranty (100K), clear-bra, getting it shipped to the house, was still thousands less than at any MB dealer in GA/SC/FL at the time.
12-30-2008, 10:11 AM
#31
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CLS55 AMG
I was speaking of non-MB dealers, not private party. The best deals I have come across were from high-end non-MB dealers. Private party tends to be higher at times, but it varies.
Personally, I have never had a MB dealer to come close to non-MB dealers on a car. My CLS for instance was a non-CPO, and even after getting the MB Extended warranty (100K), clear-bra, getting it shipped to the house, was still thousands less than at any MB dealer in GA/SC/FL at the time.
Personally, I have never had a MB dealer to come close to non-MB dealers on a car. My CLS for instance was a non-CPO, and even after getting the MB Extended warranty (100K), clear-bra, getting it shipped to the house, was still thousands less than at any MB dealer in GA/SC/FL at the time.
12-31-2008, 11:47 AM
#32
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1987 Buick GNX,SL65 Black, 1987 Buick Turbo Limited, 2010 GT500
why get a CPO... just GET a Daimler Chrysler warranty
I have brought this subject up before and the same " I wont buy a car without CPO" comes up...... just get the DM waranty and call it a day....
LOL
LOL
12-31-2008, 09:33 PM
#33
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If a MB dealer trades for a car that is still under the original factory warranty, a CPO can be added for the above periods. It seems like they are doing this at a accelerated pace since the cars are dropping so fast in value. It is quite alarming for both MB and other dealers that are trying to unload their inventory prior to getting absolutely bludgeoned by falling prices.
Furthermore, if a MB dealer buys an auction car, a reconditioning process might also turn a nice CPO car. It is still a trade off since the stealers try to hit home runs when the CPO a car. Buying an aftermarket warranty is probably the most cost efficient move, it just yields less peace of mind.
Last edited by sack5000; 12-31-2008 at 09:38 PM.
01-01-2009, 02:47 PM
#34
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CLS55 AMG
I am looking to replace my leased E63 right now. Doing searches on the MB website, there are many used cars that are certified giving 100K warranties and some variation of an additional 1,2, or three years past the original 4. So yes the original owner thing seems to have changed.
If a MB dealer trades for a car that is still under the original factory warranty, a CPO can be added for the above periods. It seems like they are doing this at a accelerated pace since the cars are dropping so fast in value. It is quite alarming for both MB and other dealers that are trying to unload their inventory prior to getting absolutely bludgeoned by falling prices.
Furthermore, if a MB dealer buys an auction car, a reconditioning process might also turn a nice CPO car. It is still a trade off since the stealers try to hit home runs when the CPO a car. Buying an aftermarket warranty is probably the most cost efficient move, it just yields less peace of mind.
If a MB dealer trades for a car that is still under the original factory warranty, a CPO can be added for the above periods. It seems like they are doing this at a accelerated pace since the cars are dropping so fast in value. It is quite alarming for both MB and other dealers that are trying to unload their inventory prior to getting absolutely bludgeoned by falling prices.
Furthermore, if a MB dealer buys an auction car, a reconditioning process might also turn a nice CPO car. It is still a trade off since the stealers try to hit home runs when the CPO a car. Buying an aftermarket warranty is probably the most cost efficient move, it just yields less peace of mind.
I was referring to non-CPO cars, purchased used from non-MB dealers or individuals. Afaik MB extended warranties cannot be purchased for these cars. The poster to whom I was responding had said that he had gotten one of these warrantes despite having purchased his vehicle at a non-MB dealer, so I was curious as to whether or not the policy had changed in the last month, which was when I spoke with the finance manager at my local MB dealership about it, and when he told me it wasn't doable.
01-01-2009, 08:36 PM
#35
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I wasn't referring to CPO cars, which have always come with a 1-y extended warrranty, extendable to 2 or 3 years beyond that at the time of purchase.
I was referring to non-CPO cars, purchased used from non-MB dealers or individuals. Afaik MB extended warranties cannot be purchased for these cars. The poster to whom I was responding had said that he had gotten one of these warrantes despite having purchased his vehicle at a non-MB dealer, so I was curious as to whether or not the policy had changed in the last month, which was when I spoke with the finance manager at my local MB dealership about it, and when he told me it wasn't doable.
I was referring to non-CPO cars, purchased used from non-MB dealers or individuals. Afaik MB extended warranties cannot be purchased for these cars. The poster to whom I was responding had said that he had gotten one of these warrantes despite having purchased his vehicle at a non-MB dealer, so I was curious as to whether or not the policy had changed in the last month, which was when I spoke with the finance manager at my local MB dealership about it, and when he told me it wasn't doable.
01-01-2009, 10:01 PM
#36
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CLS55 AMG
What really ticks me off is that Lexus, for example, sells warranties for their cars whether or not the owner is the original owner, regardless of whether or not it was purchased for a Lexus dealership, provided that it is still under manufacturers' warranty.
Although, having said that, I got one for my last Lexus, which was a total money waster; not a thing went wrong with that car. My CLK55, otoh, had a pretty profitable extended warranty from my perspective.
Although, having said that, I got one for my last Lexus, which was a total money waster; not a thing went wrong with that car. My CLK55, otoh, had a pretty profitable extended warranty from my perspective.
Last edited by Improviz; 01-02-2009 at 01:20 AM.
01-02-2009, 12:11 AM
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E63 P30, CL500 Sport
I wasn't referring to CPO cars, which have always come with a 1-y extended warrranty, extendable to 2 or 3 years beyond that at the time of purchase.
I was referring to non-CPO cars, purchased used from non-MB dealers or individuals. Afaik MB extended warranties cannot be purchased for these cars. The poster to whom I was responding had said that he had gotten one of these warrantes despite having purchased his vehicle at a non-MB dealer, so I was curious as to whether or not the policy had changed in the last month, which was when I spoke with the finance manager at my local MB dealership about it, and when he told me it wasn't doable.
I was referring to non-CPO cars, purchased used from non-MB dealers or individuals. Afaik MB extended warranties cannot be purchased for these cars. The poster to whom I was responding had said that he had gotten one of these warrantes despite having purchased his vehicle at a non-MB dealer, so I was curious as to whether or not the policy had changed in the last month, which was when I spoke with the finance manager at my local MB dealership about it, and when he told me it wasn't doable.
Last edited by MB_Forever; 01-02-2009 at 04:18 AM.
01-02-2009, 03:27 AM
#38
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The stipulations:
1. It cannot be a CPO car.
2. You do not have to be the original owner.
3. It has to be bought from a dealer. (Non-MB does apply)
4. The car cannot have a salvage title, gray market, etc.
5. Car has to be inspected by an MB dealer.
6. The car must be under 50K miles.
So, all these fit and I had just got the B service done so I did not have to get an inspection. I called both RBM locations here in Atlanta and both confirmed that I was eligible. The Roswell location checked first to verify with MBUSA, the north location already knew the scoop. I went down got the paperwork, MB booklet with the contract and terms, reviewed it, done. Simple.
There is 0 deductible on this also as always.
Last edited by bigben320e; 01-02-2009 at 03:30 AM.
01-02-2009, 03:36 AM
#39
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CLS55 AMG
Easy. I called MBUSA and asked the question. I explained to them exactly where and how I purchased my CLS. I thought the same way, no way could I get an extended warranty.
The stipulations:
1. It cannot be a CPO car.
2. You do not have to be the original owner.
3. It has to be bought from a dealer. (Non-MB does apply)
4. The car cannot have a salvage title, gray market, etc.
5. Car has to be inspected by an MB dealer.
6. The car must be under 50K miles.
So, all these fit and I had just got the B service done so I did not have to get an inspection. I called both RBM locations here in Atlanta and both confirmed that I was eligible. The Roswell location checked first to verify with MBUSA, the north location already knew the scoop. I went down got the paperwork, MB booklet with the contract and terms, reviewed it, done. Simple.
There is 0 deductible on this also as always.
The stipulations:
1. It cannot be a CPO car.
2. You do not have to be the original owner.
3. It has to be bought from a dealer. (Non-MB does apply)
4. The car cannot have a salvage title, gray market, etc.
5. Car has to be inspected by an MB dealer.
6. The car must be under 50K miles.
So, all these fit and I had just got the B service done so I did not have to get an inspection. I called both RBM locations here in Atlanta and both confirmed that I was eligible. The Roswell location checked first to verify with MBUSA, the north location already knew the scoop. I went down got the paperwork, MB booklet with the contract and terms, reviewed it, done. Simple.
There is 0 deductible on this also as always.
Btw, what was the max term they'd give you on the warranty? Thanks in advance!
01-02-2009, 02:15 PM
#40
MBWorld Fanatic!
Interesting....I'd definitely need to get them to clear it with my local Benz dealership, as the finance manager there is blissfully unaware of this. Do you have a contact at MBUSA, or the number you called? I'd like to get more info on this, for sure!
Btw, what was the max term they'd give you on the warranty? Thanks in advance!
Btw, what was the max term they'd give you on the warranty? Thanks in advance!
The person I spoke to at MBUSA was in the finance/warranty division. I don't remember her name right off, may have been Theresa? Anyway, just call them and get routed to that area or have your dealer to call and verify.
At RBM, Sabrina O'Donnell is who manages warranties. Look them up and give her a call, she was very helpful. She was unaware of the extended warranty eligibility as well, and told me at first she could not do it. She called to MBUSA to check, and was told yes I was eligible.
BTW- To get full terms and conditions ask for the MB Extended warranty book, it goes into full detail on eligibility, coverage, exclusions, certain states have amendments, and transfer details (if you sell the car private party the warranty transfers to the new owner).
01-02-2009, 07:45 PM
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CLS55 AMG
The term I got was 7Yr/100K.
The person I spoke to at MBUSA was in the finance/warranty division. I don't remember her name right off, may have been Theresa? Anyway, just call them and get routed to that area or have your dealer to call and verify.
At RBM, Sabrina O'Donnell is who manages warranties. Look them up and give her a call, she was very helpful. She was unaware of the extended warranty eligibility as well, and told me at first she could not do it. She called to MBUSA to check, and was told yes I was eligible.
BTW- To get full terms and conditions ask for the MB Extended warranty book, it goes into full detail on eligibility, coverage, exclusions, certain states have amendments, and transfer details (if you sell the car private party the warranty transfers to the new owner).
The person I spoke to at MBUSA was in the finance/warranty division. I don't remember her name right off, may have been Theresa? Anyway, just call them and get routed to that area or have your dealer to call and verify.
At RBM, Sabrina O'Donnell is who manages warranties. Look them up and give her a call, she was very helpful. She was unaware of the extended warranty eligibility as well, and told me at first she could not do it. She called to MBUSA to check, and was told yes I was eligible.
BTW- To get full terms and conditions ask for the MB Extended warranty book, it goes into full detail on eligibility, coverage, exclusions, certain states have amendments, and transfer details (if you sell the car private party the warranty transfers to the new owner).
01-05-2009, 11:03 PM
#42
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2007 Volvo S80
I do not. I live Detroit and would like to go to Manheim auction with a registered agent. Please pm me.
01-06-2009, 02:06 AM
#43
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01-07-2009, 10:25 AM
#44
Are you saying that auction prices are the same as trade-in prices? A dealer takes a car in on trade at 40K. He doesn't want to sit on it and sends it to auction and get 42-43K. That is the difference between trade-in and and wholesale (auction) prices. Post up any Manheim auction prices for most any car and you could search Ebay, Atuotrader, etc., and find very similar deals. In this very thread the op lists an 06 CLS55 with 23K miles for 43K. With 30 seconds of searching I found many similar deals. I realize since you already own one the prices seem out of line, but I know how you fell because I've tried to sell my H2 and Viper. The loss of value on these two in just the last 3-4 months would buy me a nice used CLS55. Very crazy times we are in. I'm an energy trader and some of the things I have seen in the last few weeks makes me want to throw up in my trash can.
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...0&cardist=1239
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...00&cardist=804
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...0&cardist=1239
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...00&cardist=804
01-07-2009, 11:23 AM
#45
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CLS55 AMG
No. YOU said that Manheim auction prices are the same as private party retail, which is not the case, and which is the point of contention. This is totally bogus, as the data itself show (more on that in a moment).
Not private party. And what you seem to be incapable of understanding is that if a dealer is retailing a vehicle at, say, $10K below the norm, then the odds are they bought it for substantially less, and that it has problems (high mileage, etc.) that make it more difficult to sell.
Sort of like that fraudulent deal you came in here bragging about that you found on Fleabay, which turned out to be a con job using a vehicle that had been purchased by, and is still owned by, a member of this forum who did not have the vehicle up for sale?
Like that?
I thought you were a custom home builder. I've seen you state this before, in these forums before. Now you're an energy trader? 
Anyway, I'm well aware that car prices are falling rapidly, and have never disputed this; they ALWAYS DO in a falling economy. The thing that irks me about you is that you continually make incorrect statements, such as saying that private party retail is the same as auction prices, and then try to support them by producing examples of cars which either have some oddity that makes them less valuable like a non-traditional color combination (like the silver/tan example below; silver/black is a much more desirable combination), or a car with 10,000 miles above the average range for the vehicle.
You then seem to claim that the lowest point on the curve is what sets the norm, and then cherry-pick by producing the lowest-priced vehicles you can find as though this supports your argument, when in fact the going average price is much higher.
It does not support your argument, any more than producing two guys who are five feet tall would support an argument that the average height of males is five feet.
Case in point: just like the Fleabay fraud you trotted out last time you pulled this stunt, the first car below seems to have issues. It is a two-owner ex-lease car, with an undesirable interior/exterior color combination, and a Florida car which also makes its intrinsic value lower (hurricanes). Further, the dealer is listing it with 30,200 miles, while its last carfax entry shows it with 31,900 miles.
The second car is a two-owner off-lease car with above-average mileage, in indeterminate condition.
Options are not listed for either vehicle. For all you know, they're very lightly-optioned strippers. Xenon lights weren't standard on these vehicles, and I *have* come across cars which didn't have them, etc. etc. etc.
I would like for you to answer the following question.
Do you think that options, mileage, condition of paint, interior, exterior etc., accidents, number of owners, leased vs. owned, location, appearance, color combinations, etc. have any effect upon a vehicle's worth?
Or do you think that the average selling price of a vehicle is determined by the lowest-priced model you can find?
Please answer.
What I see with you is someone who wants a great car, but wants to get one on the cheap, and who is basically rationalizing that the cheapest one is every bit as good as the average one, regardless of the factors which go into pricing a vehicle.
Prices are indeed falling. I don't dispute that. What I dispute is your unrealistic and patently false assertion that the lowest price sets the standard. It doesn't. If you want a cheapie, have at it. Some folks are willing to pay a bit more for quality.
One more thing: if I take a look at autotrader.com and look at ALL of the prices instead of limiting my max price to $45K as YOU did, I come up with this:
ALL CARS:
Highest Price: $66,991
Lowest Price: $37,020
Average Price: $50,841
DEALERS ONLY:
Highest Price: $66,991
Lowest Price: $37,020
Average Price: $50,015
PRIVATE PARTY:
Highest Price: $65,000
Lowest Price: $45,600
Average Price: $56,627
So, as usual, you cherry-pick the below-average cars and try to claim that they set pricing standards. They do not. As to your newest bogus claim, that Manheim prices are the same as private party retail, here is the data for ALL of the 55 '06 CLS55s which were auctioned in the US in December:
Average price: $37,238
Average Mileage: 39,252
Hmm, don't know about your math, but to my math, it would seem that average auction price, which is low-end wholesale, seems to be coming in substantially lower than either average private party OR average dealer, which are retail.
Can you please explain how you came up with the, um, "interesting" theory that private party prices are the same as auction prices, or that auction prices are the same as retail prices?? 
I will anxiously await your answer, along with a FULL (not a cherry-picked PARTIAL) data set to back it up.
A dealer takes a car in on trade at 40K. He doesn't want to sit on it and sends it to auction and get 42-43K. That is the difference between trade-in and and wholesale (auction) prices. Post up any Manheim auction prices for most any car and you could search Ebay, Atuotrader, etc., and find very similar deals.
Like that?
I realize since you already own one the prices seem out of line, but I know how you fell because I've tried to sell my H2 and Viper. The loss of value on these two in just the last 3-4 months would buy me a nice used CLS55. Very crazy times we are in. I'm an energy trader and some of the things I have seen in the last few weeks makes me want to throw up in my trash can.
Anyway, I'm well aware that car prices are falling rapidly, and have never disputed this; they ALWAYS DO in a falling economy. The thing that irks me about you is that you continually make incorrect statements, such as saying that private party retail is the same as auction prices, and then try to support them by producing examples of cars which either have some oddity that makes them less valuable like a non-traditional color combination (like the silver/tan example below; silver/black is a much more desirable combination), or a car with 10,000 miles above the average range for the vehicle.
You then seem to claim that the lowest point on the curve is what sets the norm, and then cherry-pick by producing the lowest-priced vehicles you can find as though this supports your argument, when in fact the going average price is much higher.
It does not support your argument, any more than producing two guys who are five feet tall would support an argument that the average height of males is five feet.
Case in point: just like the Fleabay fraud you trotted out last time you pulled this stunt, the first car below seems to have issues. It is a two-owner ex-lease car, with an undesirable interior/exterior color combination, and a Florida car which also makes its intrinsic value lower (hurricanes). Further, the dealer is listing it with 30,200 miles, while its last carfax entry shows it with 31,900 miles.
The second car is a two-owner off-lease car with above-average mileage, in indeterminate condition.
Options are not listed for either vehicle. For all you know, they're very lightly-optioned strippers. Xenon lights weren't standard on these vehicles, and I *have* come across cars which didn't have them, etc. etc. etc.
I would like for you to answer the following question.
Do you think that options, mileage, condition of paint, interior, exterior etc., accidents, number of owners, leased vs. owned, location, appearance, color combinations, etc. have any effect upon a vehicle's worth?
Or do you think that the average selling price of a vehicle is determined by the lowest-priced model you can find?
Please answer.
What I see with you is someone who wants a great car, but wants to get one on the cheap, and who is basically rationalizing that the cheapest one is every bit as good as the average one, regardless of the factors which go into pricing a vehicle.
Prices are indeed falling. I don't dispute that. What I dispute is your unrealistic and patently false assertion that the lowest price sets the standard. It doesn't. If you want a cheapie, have at it. Some folks are willing to pay a bit more for quality.
One more thing: if I take a look at autotrader.com and look at ALL of the prices instead of limiting my max price to $45K as YOU did, I come up with this:
ALL CARS:
Highest Price: $66,991
Lowest Price: $37,020
Average Price: $50,841
DEALERS ONLY:
Highest Price: $66,991
Lowest Price: $37,020
Average Price: $50,015
PRIVATE PARTY:
Highest Price: $65,000
Lowest Price: $45,600
Average Price: $56,627
So, as usual, you cherry-pick the below-average cars and try to claim that they set pricing standards. They do not. As to your newest bogus claim, that Manheim prices are the same as private party retail, here is the data for ALL of the 55 '06 CLS55s which were auctioned in the US in December:
Average price: $37,238
Average Mileage: 39,252
Hmm, don't know about your math, but to my math, it would seem that average auction price, which is low-end wholesale, seems to be coming in substantially lower than either average private party OR average dealer, which are retail.
Can you please explain how you came up with the, um, "interesting" theory that private party prices are the same as auction prices, or that auction prices are the same as retail prices??
I will anxiously await your answer, along with a FULL (not a cherry-picked PARTIAL) data set to back it up.
Last edited by Improviz; 01-07-2009 at 11:25 AM.
01-07-2009, 06:00 PM
#46
Member
Let's not forget that in addition to mileage, condition and color, late model MB values are HIGHLY impacted by option content. P2 and P3 cars sell at a well-deserved $$$ premium, yet these differences often dont show up in auction results.
Unless you (or your auto broker) is at the auction seeing and bidding on the actual cars, treat all these numbers as just a very rough guideline.
Unless you (or your auto broker) is at the auction seeing and bidding on the actual cars, treat all these numbers as just a very rough guideline.
01-07-2009, 06:25 PM
#47
Senior Member
Hi guys-
Sorry for the slight highjack, but a forum member emailed me and told me to take a look at this thread regarding Manheim prices etc.
I have a sticky thread in the C class section that is dedicated to posting Manheim results. If anyone who doesn't already have access to these auctions and would like to know results of any car, feel free to post a request there.
Sorry for the slight highjack, but a forum member emailed me and told me to take a look at this thread regarding Manheim prices etc.
I have a sticky thread in the C class section that is dedicated to posting Manheim results. If anyone who doesn't already have access to these auctions and would like to know results of any car, feel free to post a request there.
