Full Throttle

You can buy a whole 996T 660whp turbo system installed for $12,000 or a hand full of basic bolt on parts for a E55-CLS55
http://www.boostlogic.com/index.php?...tid=1:features

azncarjunkie

So polite for being a vendor. You forgot to point out that benz owners are pain in the *** customers.

turbotom1

I agree that R & D is prohibitive !
Rennetech is a good example because the high prices reflect superior engineering. Just like the Germans who love to over engineer everything.

At our company we outsource all engineering ( electronics & plastics ) and pay $200/hr for regular engineers and $300/hr for supervisory time to review the work of their $200/hr employees.

Example:
R & D $25,000 to develop a product over the course of several months and one prototype $3000. ($28,000)

First 200 pieces of say a Rennetech module
$750 cost and a sell price of $1395

200 X $750 = $150,000 + $28,000 (R&D) = $178,000
200 x $1395 = $279,000

36.2% GP before expenses like advertising, salaries, rent etc.

So there is a large risk of capital for a modest return.
The TAM for MB-AMG mods per 55 or 63 model is in the hundreds not thousands of units.

This weeks example is the Evosport pully I ordered
the first week of July... arrived yesterday, September 2.

Turns out they only make a dozen or so per month and I had to wait: https://mbworld.org/forums/cls55-amg...-progress.html

Another example is this thread, sold a dozen or so after months of build up (pent up demand).
https://mbworld.org/forums/cls55-amg...-diffuser.html

Most small business's have one or two products that are successful and the rest coast along filling out the product portfolio so you appear larger and more respectable to clients.

Akademiks

For dropping that much on mods, I think we have that right.

Full Throttle

It does not cost $25,000 to take a shelf spearco intercooler core,fab up some end tanks and weld on some mounting tabs.

It does not cost $25,000 to build a unequal length header.

It does not cost $25,000 to CNC a larger diameter crank pulley ring.

It does not cost $25,000 to mandrel bend a mid pipe section and cat-back exhaust systems.

Small shops in other communities have been doing this stuff for years and years. Documenting the progress on their respected forums and offering the parts to their customers at a fraction of the prices i have seen here. Vendors charge what they charge because they view MB owners as uninformed, clueless enthusiasts who willing to spend large amounts of money. Simply because they have no frame of reference as to what these parts actually are supposed to cost.

turbotom1

Your talking about mechanics versus engineers. I prefer to buy engineered products made by reputable companies that do extensive testing.

My point is that engineering costs money but adds value with superior results in our cars while eliminating flaws found in mechanic designed systems.


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Full Throttle

Bwhahahhahahahahha

bigben320e

Good questions and observations.

Akademiks

lol, not like the H/Es mounted on 1000+hp Supras are a testament to the quality of it's "mechanic" origin.

turbotom1

Ah, did that long sentence hurt your head ?

Full Throttle

No the mind numbing ignorance of your sentence actually made me feel dumber after reading it. You clearly have no *clue* what you're talking about. Some of these *mechanics* as you ignorantly put it. Have made more power than anything in the MB world will ever make. These *mechanics* engineer parts that work from their experience at the track, and in competition. You know the stuff the real enthusiasts care about. These *mechanics* have gone 246mph at the Texas mile and these *mechanics* have made north of 1700 whp street cars.

These mechanics create parts that offer maximum performance and are designed based on what works best at the track and makes the absolute most horsepower on a given platform. These *mechanics* have built cars that have gone quicker faster and made more horsepower than anything in the AMG community period.

Here is a Header and Intercooler from two of those *mechanic* shops both support north of 1500hp



Here is a whole setup that's built 100% in shop by one of those *mechanics* as you say.

turbotom1

I was primarily talking about ECU, TCU, lowering modules etc. There is no reason for headers to cost $5,000 as you pointed out.

Some members use these cars as a daily driver and need to strike a balance between ultimate performance and streetability. Renntech parts do not void MB warranty and I assume that is that they offer this balance between performance and longevity.

VCA_AMG

Comparison between AMG performance parts prices & Mustang parts prices is ludicrous. The sheer number of Mustangs in existence vs AMGs should alone indicate what the price difference will be. Then add to that the number of AMG owners who actually mod their cars...the number gets even smaller. No vendor forces the customer to pay the asking price. If it's too expensive, don't buy it.

Full Throttle

I am comparing the price points for specifically 2003-2004 cobras only, not the total number of mustangs in existence. The engine configuration in the E55 and CLS55 and the way they are modified is identical. The price differences don't stop with fords. As mentioned, its cheaper to modify Supra's, 996T's GTR's and almost every other forced inducted platform in existence. I promise you there are not more 2009-2010 Nissan GTR's on the road than 2003-2006 E55's or 2006 CLS55's, so your theory holds no water.

Exactlt right. I will not pay top dollar for low grade low quality parts that look like they were *engineered* in someones basement.

Full Throttle

Gotcha sorry for the misunderstanding I agree with you on on the ELM and ECU tuning.

Mathmik

Full Throttle..... has a point! I also have notice when someone comes out with a competitive product/price they get bashed alot or someone tries to say a negitive comment to keep the high prices.

Full Throttle

Very True mathmik.

I think we both see the writing on the wall. As prices continue to drop. More and more younger enthusiasts will begin buying E55's. Vendors that support other *similar* platforms will begin to take notice. At that point it will be game over for the $4000 header sellers. These guys better get it while it last. I will be keeping my baby stock until the real players step up to the plate. Regarding engineering, i was looking at the area between the radiator and the bumper support on my CLS. The area is HUGE why vendors are still building soda can sized H/E is behind my realm of understanding. Knowing heat soak is a huge issue with these cars. You would think that these *engineers* would stuff the largest core possible in these cars, maybe someone will

SteelCitySupra

It's mercedes tax. The same goes for Vipers, Porsches, Lambos etc... If you have a 100k car you feel more comfortable putting a $1000 exhaust on it than some $200 chinese exhaust. Even though they may perform the same, most people dont want the cheap **** on their cars... If they charge more they feel they gain "quality" because of the price.

Plus there are reason why and why not you would buy from a certain company.

For instance, I would not buy a Greddy intercooler because at high horsepower, high boost applications the end tanks split and turns the intercooler into a pile of scrap.

Full Throttle

MB owners are in fact putting low quality parts on their cars and paying top dollar for them. I guess it also depends what you consider high horse power. I have not seen one E55/CLS55 making north of 550whp. All the Terminator H/E, headers..ect support north of that for a fraction of what MB parts cost. But you know better than anyone that sometimes even the high dollar stuff can last only one pass down the Track

SteelCitySupra

My high horsepower standards are a little higher than normal . I agree, its a shame that 1) people are putting cheap parts on a mercedes 2) That manufactures are eliminating that buying group from purchasing higher end products because of their price tag.

Also keep in mind how many cobras there are running around out there. Those products can be produced in mass quanities. The AMG market is just a tad smaller...

Full Throttle

I agree but im not sure there are that many more 2003-2004 cobras globally than there are K55 E55's and CLS55's. This market is global, and this community is starving for real cost effective solutions for their cooling and horse power needs. Im sure you have looked at your CLS extensively. We have a huge area in the font bumper and behind the core supper for a massive heat exchange that will eliminate all the cooling issue that the stock blower is creating. These things are only running about 13psi with full exhaust tops even with the largest pulley available. The cross section of most the the H/C in this community is no larger than a soda can, and they are very narrow. However i do agree this community is smaller but im still seeing better pricng for low run number cars like GTR's other semi exotic cars.

SteelCitySupra

I haven’t looked into the issue very much and not aware of the actual available dimensions. If it is just a air/air cooler then I would suggest just grabbing a small spearco core and having someone weld on the end tanks/brackets. Could be done for under $800 and provide more than enough cooling!

Full Throttle

This is exactly my point.

VCA_AMG

Fair enough. Cherry picking the 03-04 Cobra market as comparison I can see your point. The "Mercedes tax" does show when pricing some of the items you mentioned. Best of luck w/your mods and the pricing, I'm right behind you wanting more equal pricing (it'd be easier on my wallet too) but I'm not holding my breath.

turbotom1

year model sold vehicles
2004 E55 3,218
2005 E55 2,214
2006 E55 1,187
2007 E63 1,353
- - - - - - - - - -
2006 CLS55 2,765
2007 CLS63 699


https://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...0&d=1211727371

GTR
2008 1,730
2009 2,400 (estimated)

http://nissangtrclub.com/showthread.php?t=2139

http://www.2009gtr.com/2009/02/january-gt-r-sales.html

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