CLS55 or M5?
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From: Toronto,ON
AMG
Originally Posted by skratch77
Just a cold air intake on the old m5 gave it 30rwhp so This one should see about the same gains if not more because of its high reving f1 design.
30? BUAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHA WHP? WHAHAHAHAHAHA....
Then my E55 would get what like 70?
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2005 E55
Originally Posted by BoBcanada
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHA
30? BUAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHA WHP? WHAHAHAHAHAHA....
Then my E55 would get what like 70?
30? BUAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHA WHP? WHAHAHAHAHAHA....
Then my E55 would get what like 70?
The e39 engine was not pushed at all to its limits from bmw.Nowack gets 540 hp out of this engine and stays NA.
Why dont you go look and see for your self.The e39 engine is detuned its only making 80hp/l
AAs intake shows 35 rwhp dynos.
rumors now are that the m6 csl is getting 600ps with the same m5 engine.Just revving it to 9k and better flow.
BMW said they tested this engine past 10k.I think tuners will get into the 600's with this engine.
Last edited by skratch77; Dec 3, 2004 at 02:36 PM.
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From: So. Cal.
2006 CLS55-030, 2002 BMW 540 Wagon, 1995 VW Jetta GLX
skratch77 -
Thats really hanging it out there for a "STREET" Motor, at 9,000 RPMs the piston speed will be 4,440 FT. per MIN., and that is in ALL OUT racing territory and would not lend itself, to well, to street cruising.
This does not mean the M5 V10 motor can not make that kind of HP N/A (120 HP per Liter!!!), But, to do so, you will be running race gas and have one nervous motor on your hands.
On a cost benefit basis and drivability basis a Forced Induction motor will always win over a N/A motor when you are talking about output levels of a 100 HP per liter and more.
- Bob
BMW said they tested this engine past 10k.I think tuners will get into the 600's with this engine.
This does not mean the M5 V10 motor can not make that kind of HP N/A (120 HP per Liter!!!), But, to do so, you will be running race gas and have one nervous motor on your hands.
On a cost benefit basis and drivability basis a Forced Induction motor will always win over a N/A motor when you are talking about output levels of a 100 HP per liter and more.
- Bob
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From: Dallas
SL65
Looking over the December issue of Road and Track the M5 appears to be rather disappointing. I'd much rather have power available at low RPM where its more usable. Similar to the Vipers V10 engine, lots of HP but even for passing in highway traffic downshifting several gears is required or it feels slugish and underpowered. Not just that but the SMG with ECU seems overly complicated to be of any real use and would just get in the way of driving like the terrible idrive system.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....ber=1&preview=
"Better still, the SMG also features Launch Control, a no-brainer electronic aid that does a better job of launching the M5 from a standstill than any human could. Activation requires that SMG be in its most sporting position (S6) with DSC off and the console-mounted gearshift lever held in the forward position. From there, all it takes is pushing the gas pedal to the floor, letting the system hold engine revs at 4000, then releasing the gear shift. What happens next is pure computer-controlled bliss as the rear tires spin just enough to ensure optimal traction, the SMG shifts automatically at precisely the right revs and the M5 rockets away. Using Launch Control, expect 0-60-mph times somewhere in the neighborhood of 4.5 seconds and the quarter-mile around 13 flat."
It would seem to me that needing to do all that just to get the car to accelerate quickly is too much. By the time you did all that and coordinated it you would be staring at the taillights of even a Yugo.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....ber=1&preview=
"Better still, the SMG also features Launch Control, a no-brainer electronic aid that does a better job of launching the M5 from a standstill than any human could. Activation requires that SMG be in its most sporting position (S6) with DSC off and the console-mounted gearshift lever held in the forward position. From there, all it takes is pushing the gas pedal to the floor, letting the system hold engine revs at 4000, then releasing the gear shift. What happens next is pure computer-controlled bliss as the rear tires spin just enough to ensure optimal traction, the SMG shifts automatically at precisely the right revs and the M5 rockets away. Using Launch Control, expect 0-60-mph times somewhere in the neighborhood of 4.5 seconds and the quarter-mile around 13 flat."
It would seem to me that needing to do all that just to get the car to accelerate quickly is too much. By the time you did all that and coordinated it you would be staring at the taillights of even a Yugo.
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From: fremont, ca
04 E55
Originally Posted by bfnnrgn
[url]
It would seem to me that needing to do all that just to get the car to accelerate quickly is too much. By the time you did all that and coordinated it you would be staring at the taillights of even a Yugo.
It would seem to me that needing to do all that just to get the car to accelerate quickly is too much. By the time you did all that and coordinated it you would be staring at the taillights of even a Yugo.
As far as drivablility goes, I fail to see what 8500 redline has such issue that the car is undrivable in the street. This is a manual with automatic mode, it does not behave like automatic. As long as you keep the rev up and stay in the powerband, you are fine. Most importantly although new M5 has much less torque than E55, it's not actually that low compare to any other car. 80% of it is available at low 2000 RPM, which for daily use is more than enough. It's not like anyone using the E55 stomps on the gas everytime to accelerate. Heck, prior to S/C being engaged, E55 does not have that much low end torque as well. Last time i check, i don't think our S/C kicks in until 2500 RPM or so. Therefore this point is mute.
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From: Mason Neck, VA
actually i thought if not floored the sc "disengauged" (sp?) AFTER 2500 rpm to save gas mileage so it wasnt an always on sc. but when a certain amount of pressure is applied to the throttle the sc kicked in in a few milliseconds. could be and probably are wrong just my recollection.
anyway, ive owned an m3 and loved it. would have had an m5 until the new e55 came along. always wanted a sc car WITH a warranty. you just cant beat the push in the back of a sc car imo. ive driven an s2000 and the new m5 (on a much larger scale) sounds a lot like that car. needs to rev high etc. and besides, really, seriously, no kidding now, do you REALLY like the new m5 or do you want to be either the first to have one for OVER 90K or are you such a bmr'ophile that its bmr or nothing. b/c really, if you have to get "used" to the look of an exoctic car how you gonna feel 6 months later?
just my 2c
anyway, ive owned an m3 and loved it. would have had an m5 until the new e55 came along. always wanted a sc car WITH a warranty. you just cant beat the push in the back of a sc car imo. ive driven an s2000 and the new m5 (on a much larger scale) sounds a lot like that car. needs to rev high etc. and besides, really, seriously, no kidding now, do you REALLY like the new m5 or do you want to be either the first to have one for OVER 90K or are you such a bmr'ophile that its bmr or nothing. b/c really, if you have to get "used" to the look of an exoctic car how you gonna feel 6 months later?
just my 2c
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From: fremont, ca
04 E55
Originally Posted by Peter B
actually i thought if not floored the sc "disengauged" (sp?) AFTER 2500 rpm to save gas mileage so it wasnt an always on sc. but when a certain amount of pressure is applied to the throttle the sc kicked in in a few milliseconds. could be and probably are wrong just my recollection.
anyway, ive owned an m3 and loved it. would have had an m5 until the new e55 came along. always wanted a sc car WITH a warranty. you just cant beat the push in the back of a sc car imo. ive driven an s2000 and the new m5 (on a much larger scale) sounds a lot like that car. needs to rev high etc. and besides, really, seriously, no kidding now, do you REALLY like the new m5 or do you want to be either the first to have one for OVER 90K or are you such a bmr'ophile that its bmr or nothing. b/c really, if you have to get "used" to the look of an exoctic car how you gonna feel 6 months later?
just my 2c
anyway, ive owned an m3 and loved it. would have had an m5 until the new e55 came along. always wanted a sc car WITH a warranty. you just cant beat the push in the back of a sc car imo. ive driven an s2000 and the new m5 (on a much larger scale) sounds a lot like that car. needs to rev high etc. and besides, really, seriously, no kidding now, do you REALLY like the new m5 or do you want to be either the first to have one for OVER 90K or are you such a bmr'ophile that its bmr or nothing. b/c really, if you have to get "used" to the look of an exoctic car how you gonna feel 6 months later?
just my 2c
Well, my E55 was over 100k with taxes and everything else. So that's is not much of a difference. BMWNA rep told me that base M5 would start at mid 80' and with options it will be 90k already.
As far as look goes, i actually likes E60 exterior more than I do of W211. E60 is very agressive imho.
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From: Boston
CLS500
How about make some comparison between 645CI and CLS500 or M6 and CLS55
How about make some comparison between 645CI and CLS500 or M6 and CLS55???
I really want to hear some of your ideas and comparison
I really want to hear some of your ideas and comparison
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From: Chicago
2006 SLK55 AMG/// 2006 Porsche CaymanS 2010 135i
I'm not 100% but I beleive that "Auto Motor Und Sport" will be running an M5 - CLS AMG comparison on next week's show. In Chicago the Show airs on PBS Monday's at 7:30 after Motorweek, in other markets you'd have to check your listings.
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From: Land of 10,000 lakes
AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
Originally Posted by miaomiao
How about make some comparison between 645CI and CLS500 or M6 and CLS55???
I really want to hear some of your ideas and comparison
I really want to hear some of your ideas and comparison
and because they are both 4 door sedans, no matter how some marketeers call it.Also, with the improved steering and supension of the CLS over the E-class, it is simply a more currrent and relevant comparison.Too bad the CLS doesn't come with ABC suspension which I find vastly superior to the Airmatic in the E or CLS models.
Wolfman
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From: Chicago
2006 SLK55 AMG/// 2006 Porsche CaymanS 2010 135i
Auto Motor Und Sport did a comparison last night and the CLS AMG 55 came out on top of the BMW M5 as a better combination of performance and luxury.
There were some great shots of the CLS and M5 tail out around a track, the exhaust note on the CLS was really nice.
0-100km times were identical at 4.7 seconds with the BMW about one second quicker to 200km per hour. The BMW was faster through the slalom with the CLS right on it's tail. The CLS had a much better interior in both style and ergonomics, the exterior is so far superior to the M5 there is really no comparison.
The CLS had greater torque than the M5.
The CLS had a lower fuel consumption as well, the only downside noted was the price compared to the M5.
The M5 ride was considered harsh for a car of this caliber, which accounts for the better slalom time.
For some reason the M5 look reminds me of a Pontiac.
There were some great shots of the CLS and M5 tail out around a track, the exhaust note on the CLS was really nice.
0-100km times were identical at 4.7 seconds with the BMW about one second quicker to 200km per hour. The BMW was faster through the slalom with the CLS right on it's tail. The CLS had a much better interior in both style and ergonomics, the exterior is so far superior to the M5 there is really no comparison.
The CLS had greater torque than the M5.
The CLS had a lower fuel consumption as well, the only downside noted was the price compared to the M5.
The M5 ride was considered harsh for a car of this caliber, which accounts for the better slalom time.
For some reason the M5 look reminds me of a Pontiac.
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From: So. Cal.
2006 CLS55-030, 2002 BMW 540 Wagon, 1995 VW Jetta GLX
Once every45 Minutes!
AH YES, it appears that the M5 owner is going to be treated to the LAUNCH CONTROL experience only once every 45 Min.! Thats right! It seems that the M5 needs that time to calm down and regenerate it's composure to make another "LAUNCH" at full tilt. Oh well, I guess we will have to wait for them down the road a bit, after they catch up, so we can have some more fun with them again.
Hmmm, when I found this out, I immediately felt pretty bad for the BMW crowed. After all there Marquis has a reputation for being the "Ultimate Driving Machine". Now I guess they will have to relax for 45 Min. between "Ultimate Driving" experiences. I got it! BMW wants you to have time to reprogram the M5 for the next LAUNCH sequence.
Wow, all this is making me dizzy. Leaving me wondering if the M5 is really worth all the trouble.
- Bob
Hmmm, when I found this out, I immediately felt pretty bad for the BMW crowed. After all there Marquis has a reputation for being the "Ultimate Driving Machine". Now I guess they will have to relax for 45 Min. between "Ultimate Driving" experiences. I got it! BMW wants you to have time to reprogram the M5 for the next LAUNCH sequence.
Wow, all this is making me dizzy. Leaving me wondering if the M5 is really worth all the trouble.
- Bob
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From: fremont, ca
04 E55
Originally Posted by Evolution Marine
AH YES, it appears that the M5 owner is going to be treated to the LAUNCH CONTROL experience only once every 45 Min.! Thats right! It seems that the M5 needs that time to calm down and regenerate it's composure to make another "LAUNCH" at full tilt. Oh well, I guess we will have to wait for them down the road a bit, after they catch up, so we can have some more fun with them again.
Hmmm, when I found this out, I immediately felt pretty bad for the BMW crowed. After all there Marquis has a reputation for being the "Ultimate Driving Machine". Now I guess they will have to relax for 45 Min. between "Ultimate Driving" experiences. I got it! BMW wants you to have time to reprogram the M5 for the next LAUNCH sequence.
Wow, all this is making me dizzy. Leaving me wondering if the M5 is really worth all the trouble. - Bob
Hmmm, when I found this out, I immediately felt pretty bad for the BMW crowed. After all there Marquis has a reputation for being the "Ultimate Driving Machine". Now I guess they will have to relax for 45 Min. between "Ultimate Driving" experiences. I got it! BMW wants you to have time to reprogram the M5 for the next LAUNCH sequence.
Wow, all this is making me dizzy. Leaving me wondering if the M5 is really worth all the trouble.
- BobLaunch control is simply allows you to launch the car at dead stop at higher RPM, in the process slowly kills the clutch (like dumping clutch at 4500 RPM). The clutch can't handle repeated high RPM dump.
M-Mode on the other hand is simply allows different setting on the EDC, DSC, Shift time, and advance the throttle.
M5 is not for everyone. Especially for driver that can only stomp on the gas and go.
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From: So. Cal.
2006 CLS55-030, 2002 BMW 540 Wagon, 1995 VW Jetta GLX
I saw the CLS500!!!
Went to the showing last night at "Brabus". I can honestly tell you guys that I was STUNNED at how good looking this car is. I kept walking around it, and around it, trying to find an angle that it looked awkward at and that awkward angle doesn't exist! It is low, sleek, and good-looking. This thing ROCKS!!! 
The CLS was black on Black with 20" wheels, lowered at least 1.5". The front wheels were 9" wide and the rear wheels were 10.5" wide,. The first impression I got when I sat in the CLS was how sporty it felt inside. The over all impression is, as if you are sitting in a sports car not a four door sedan. The interior space is on the snug side but still comfortable (I'm 6'2" tall and weigh 215 lbs.) and has a very high quality feel to it.
I'll try a post some pictures as soon as I can. - Bob
The CLS was black on Black with 20" wheels, lowered at least 1.5". The front wheels were 9" wide and the rear wheels were 10.5" wide,. The first impression I got when I sat in the CLS was how sporty it felt inside. The over all impression is, as if you are sitting in a sports car not a four door sedan. The interior space is on the snug side but still comfortable (I'm 6'2" tall and weigh 215 lbs.) and has a very high quality feel to it.
I'll try a post some pictures as soon as I can.
- Bob
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Originally Posted by Evolution Marine
AH YES, it appears that the M5 owner is going to be treated to the LAUNCH CONTROL experience only once every 45 Min.!.... - Bob
Richard
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From: NEW YORK CITY
08 S550v4 sport pkg, 07 BMW M6 converti, 07 CL550 Sport pkg
nope but i have always had mercedes the only reason why i bought the M5 was because of the clutch, now that there is no clutch i might aswell go back to Mercedes. but now after talking to my BMW dealer, he promised me the first M5 or M6 when it comes in, he said MSRP is going to be 95k-110k USD depending on which one so i am not sure, still keeping my place for the CLS55 but might pass on it when it comes in
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2005 E55
Originally Posted by 0-60 Swiftly
nope but i have always had mercedes the only reason why i bought the M5 was because of the clutch, now that there is no clutch i might aswell go back to Mercedes. but now after talking to my BMW dealer, he promised me the first M5 or M6 when it comes in, he said MSRP is going to be 95k-110k USD depending on which one so i am not sure, still keeping my place for the CLS55 but might pass on it when it comes in
