andy_cyp

The euro M3's deffinatly have different exhaust systems than your US spec versions do, and this is obviously due to the stricter emmision laws you have over there, but surely this mod alone to the euro m3 be a major factor that i got wopped, if thats the case ill change my entire system to get back on level terms , im putting it down to the fuel we were using 98RON VS 95 RON, and the fact i didnt slap it into 1st and let the car do the rest, i simply put it into SPORT/D Mode........

skratch77

you should always run the best fuel in a car like that.rerun him with better gas and see what happens.The m3 from a stop is hard to launch right so dont think about running in first again.The m has a very hard time taking off without wheel spin.go from a second gear pull to 4th.You said he has smg?

did he use L control?the euro L control is different than ours awell.They launch at 3k and ours at 1800.

most of the kill stories here are for us spec cars so don't be to upset that a purebred m3 beat you by a 1/2 second.

I would buy a c32 if they made it with a clutch and 2 door anyday.Both are great cars.Maybe when im a little older ill get a 4door

beemaze

Actually they made a C32 coupe in Europe, but it was an automatic...too bad it wasn't imported into the U.S.

Fikse

that's interesting..... I ran an E39 M5 in my C32, we were dead even to about 100MPH, then he started pulling away..... I was very surprised....

Erik

Dont be, The M5 will pull on the C32 at that speed.

mbny

M3 coupe is actually slightly quicker off the line than the M5.

KompressorKev

the difference between the euro e46 m3's and the us e46 m3's is the headers and cats. the us e46 m3 has the cats integrated with the headers because being closer enables it the exhaust gases to have improved cold-start emissions. the european e46 m3 has the cats located away from the headers, so their headers do not contain cats. the euro cats are located in "section I" (or "race-pipe", or "s-pipe"), which is the pipe which connects the headers to "section II" (or midpipe / "x-pipe"), which in turn connects to the rear muffler. the us exhaust design for e46 m3 goes from headers w/ cats, to section I, to section II, to rear muffler. the euro e46 m3 goes from headers, to cats, to section II, to rear muffler.

the euro e46 m3 is 343hp din and 269 lb.ft of torque. btw, nm is a measurement torque, not hp. the din notation counts for 5hp conversion when compared to us hp standards. according to the us standard, the e46 m3 european model should actually have 338hp, as 5 of the quoted 343 din hp is acreddited to conversion. the us model has 333hp and 262 lb.ft of torque. while this may not seem significant, the differnece between the euro and us e46 m3's is more than it seems, because it is not all about peak numbers but supposedly the euro headers/cats (a somewhat popular upgrade for e46 m3's) give more torque and hp under the curve. headers/cats such as supersprint generally yield more peak hp gain numbers, but the euro headers and cats are meant to provide better mid-range numbers.

the race will vary from actual car to car as vadim said. there is variance between each engine because not every car is equal from the factory. the e46 m3 and c32 is really a driver's race. if from a dig, the launch is crucial. i found that the e46 m3 has potential to be slightly quicker to about 50 mph if the launch is good. the c32 does edge it out on the top end consistently in my experience. if the launch is about the same though, the c32 will just inch away. depends on the length of the race. from a roll is not as simple as some might think, because it depends on what mph you start in (different speeds correlate with different optimization of gearing according to power characteristics). the point is, the c32 and e46 m3 are so extremely close in a race.

mbny

don't forget your comparing your C32 to a M3 vert SMG. SMG falls roughly .2-.3 seconds behind the manual off the line and the vert is nearly 400 pounds heavier giving it roughly a 40hp handicap over the coupe.

I'd love to see a nice video of the C32 vs. M3

Fikse

really... why not? the power to weight ratio is amost exactly the same....

Erik

Thats correct, but the M5 is on average still the faster car. You will probably find many posts where C32`s has been able to pull an M5 and also many where the M5 has pulled.
The problem is just that any streetrace has so many variables that is does not always reflect the true difference.

My point of the post was just to give you some comfort in your loss, its nothing wrong with your car, you just lost to a car that on average is faster than the C32 in high speeds.

We all know the difference between the 2 cars very small.

C32 vs M3 is even closer, even if all or almost all Euro comparrisson indicates a small advantage to the M3, in the US tests I have seen that is not always the case..... its really a drivers game. And since the M5 easily pulls an M3 in high speed, it should not come as a supprise or in any way ruin your day that you lost.

FrankW

even if power to weight ratio is about the same, once the car is on the move at over 100mph the horsepower plays a great deal in the game. 400 vs 349 makes the difference.

Fikse

and why does the speed make a difference, I would like to hear your explanation for this.... Gearing and aerodymamics player a larger role.....

Fikse

thanks.... it doesn't bother me.... I was comparing my experience vs the poster, who has beaten M5's and lost to M3's.... whereas my experience is exactly opposite.... I've raced 5 different M3's, and never been pulled.... one was a good friend of mine, and we must have ran em in every scenario, about 20 times on an empty highway.... and at the drag strip.....

Erik

I`ll try without using a lot of theory.

Since aerodymics on this 2 cars are close to identical, they have to use the same amount of HP to keep the car going, and beating the resisting force of the air , ( and since we all know that the weight is getting less and less important with increasing speed )......... the car with the most Hp has more left to accelerate the car.

This was described a lot better by another member on this board in another post....

Regarding gearing, I think is it safe to say the M5 does NOT have an disadvantage vs the C32.

FrankW

what he said...

Fikse

so because the cars are traveling faster, gravity and weight have less impact on the amount of power required to move the car?

Improviz

...which would be because you neither know, nor understand, the theory.

Except that you're (as you have every time this topic was brought up, despite their being zero evidence to support your claim) ignoring the fact that MASS is still a factor, at every speed.

The drag force, given as f = -1/2cpAV**2, is ALSO a factor at high speeds, but it does NOT cancel out the mass in the acceleration function, *particularly* when two vehicles such as these have very similar drag and frontal areas.

Wherein he did NOT say that mass is not a factor. It is. And the M5 has more mass.

Keep repeating this lie, Erik, and I'll be here to keep correcting it. Mass IS a factor at high speed acceleration, just as it is in low speed acceleration. You may believe that it is not, but you have cited nothing from physics to prove it, namely because no such evidence exists.

The M5 does have better gearing (torque multiplication-wise). This helps it to get great acceleration numbers despite its significantly heavier MASS. Here are the gears, gears multiplied by the final drive, and final drive ratio as given by Road & Track in this test of an E39 M5:
4.23/13.32/(7000) 40
2.53/7.97/(7000) 67
1.67/5.26/(7000) 102
1.23/3.87/(7000) 138
1.00/3.15/est (6400) 155*
0.83/2.61/est (5300) 155*
3.15:1

And now the same data for a C32, from this Road & Track test:
3.59/10.98/(6000) 40
2.19/6.70/(6000) 65
1.41/4.31/(6000) 101
1.00/3.06/(6000) 143
0.83/2.54/est (5400) 155*
3.06:1

Note that even with a huge gearing disadvantage and less peak torque, the C32's lighter *MASS* allowed it to accelerate favorably to the M5, only 0.3 off the M5. Were the M5 the same weight as the C55, with that gearing it would be *much* faster, but its MASS slowed it down.

andy_cyp

Guys,

When i stated i beat my friends E39 M5 on numorous occasions, all runs were below the 100mph mark. 0.60 20.80 30.100

Had we conducted a test of wich we both were doing 80/90/100mph then both floored it then im more than convinced that the M5 would pull on me big time, due to its greater engine size.

I stated i beat the m5 at lower speeds up to 100, and not from 100 onwards.

Hope to have cleared that

Andy.

Btw its been approx a week now where im using 97 ron fuel with a bottle of stp octane boost to every full tank.Car feels a lot more responsive if not quicker.
Ill give it another week or so before me do a rematch with the M3 to see if fuel was a determined factor. 95RON vs 98RON

reggid

if you take the m5 and double its mass and power across the rev range it will be faster at high speed despite having the same power to weight. This can be interepted that mass has less affect as speed increases. Which is not correct because if you take a car and add only mass it gets slower (acc=force/mass) but if you view it from a different perspective it can seem to be correct

its a bit like which will be faster a 400hp & 4000 lb car or a 4hp & 40lb car

andy_cyp

Rematch With Video Coming Soon,stay Tuned!!

We will be having a gtg very shortly, and this time it will be closer as i have been using 98 RON "same as the M3" fuel for a week or so now and my 32 feels a lot pokier.

stay tuned for the video

Trekman

Good Luck!

begone

No ones mentioned this I don't think, but the Euro SMG M3 has a higher Launch Control RPM - 3500. And so from a dig the Euro spec M3 could possibly be quicker off the line. But here in the states my M3 only holds the RPM's to like 1800.

SMG

Ryan Bell

"lose" = to not win

"loose" - not tight

People this is third grade grammar.

vraa

You're expecting a lot from us!

r3v1ls

I think the loss mainly has to do with the supercharger in the c32's. The NA V6 in the M3 is much more conistent. If it was a humid night it could've also affected the car. Or could it be possible that the service for the car possibly messed something up? I'd check how the intake filter is doing, the S/C's need to get nice airflow to really get the power.