Easy cold air intake for C32?
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From: San Diego
2002 C32 Black/Charcoal
Easy cold air intake for C32?
Okay, I know that I am going to get flamed for this patently-stupid idea, but I just can't get it out of my head. . .
Has anyone considered routing some of the cold air from the air conditioning to the air intake for the C32 engine. I realize that there is some parasitic loss from running the A/C compressor, but would that loss (maybe a couple of HP) not be overshadowed by the gains from having cold air coming into the intake?
So, flame away. I'm sure that Einstein also got flamed when he invented the light bulb.
Has anyone considered routing some of the cold air from the air conditioning to the air intake for the C32 engine. I realize that there is some parasitic loss from running the A/C compressor, but would that loss (maybe a couple of HP) not be overshadowed by the gains from having cold air coming into the intake?
So, flame away. I'm sure that Einstein also got flamed when he invented the light bulb.
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From: San Diego
2002 C32 Black/Charcoal
O.K. then, here's my next question: "Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?"
I am pleased to see that I am not the only tard with this thought (the A/C routed to the engine air intake) floating around his coco.
I am pleased to see that I am not the only tard with this thought (the A/C routed to the engine air intake) floating around his coco.
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C32 AMG
Vomit: I think you are better as a lawyer than an engineer. 
No, it will not work. There are many reasons why not, but the easiest to understand would be to look at the compressor on top of the engine that supplies 15 lbs. of boost and now compare it to a fan that blows accross A/C core and delivers cold air into the cabin.
There is simply not enough airflow to feed the engine and make even stock HP numbers.
BTW, C32 already has a cold air intake, just open the hood and it is very obvious. If you want to upgrade it, go to SL/E55 airboxes and Green filters. On your car, you will get around 10HP.
No, it will not work. There are many reasons why not, but the easiest to understand would be to look at the compressor on top of the engine that supplies 15 lbs. of boost and now compare it to a fan that blows accross A/C core and delivers cold air into the cabin.
There is simply not enough airflow to feed the engine and make even stock HP numbers.
BTW, C32 already has a cold air intake, just open the hood and it is very obvious. If you want to upgrade it, go to SL/E55 airboxes and Green filters. On your car, you will get around 10HP.
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From: Richmond VA
C32
You could use a custom AC condenser to cool the coolant entering the IC core, ala the Ford Lightning concept. This would be quite complicated, and rather expensive, but it could make your IC 100%+ efficient.
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From: San Diego
2002 C32 Black/Charcoal
Originally Posted by Vadim @ evosport
Vomit: I think you are better as a lawyer than an engineer.
No, it will not work. There are many reasons why not, but the easiest to understand would be to look at the compressor on top of the engine that supplies 15 lbs. of boost and now compare it to a fan that blows accross A/C core and delivers cold air into the cabin.
There is simply not enough airflow to feed the engine and make even stock HP numbers.
BTW, C32 already has a cold air intake, just open the hood and it is very obvious. If you want to upgrade it, go to SL/E55 airboxes and Green filters. On your car, you will get around 10HP.
No, it will not work. There are many reasons why not, but the easiest to understand would be to look at the compressor on top of the engine that supplies 15 lbs. of boost and now compare it to a fan that blows accross A/C core and delivers cold air into the cabin.
There is simply not enough airflow to feed the engine and make even stock HP numbers.
BTW, C32 already has a cold air intake, just open the hood and it is very obvious. If you want to upgrade it, go to SL/E55 airboxes and Green filters. On your car, you will get around 10HP.
As for the first statement, "I think you are better as a lawyer than an engineer."
you are wrong. I am just as crappy as an attorney as I am as an engineer. As for the benefit of routing a little A/C chilled air into the engine, you seem to be assuming that the A/C air would be the ONLY air going into the engine. Even I, who do not deserve to even associate my pathetic, pseudo-engineer name with yours, realize that there is not enough air produced by the A/C fan to supply the entire needs of a S/C engine. Why not plan the A/C chilled air to be 10% of the air, with the other 90% being air from outside? Wouldn't a drop of a few degrees in intake air temp substantially benefit a C32?
Love, Vomit
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From: North Cuba/West Bimini
Cars and boats!
since we are on the topic of concept ideas to gain power.... has anybody ever thought of swapping out the IHI/AMG twin screw lysholm blower for a less parasitic centrifugal supercharger? my buddy with a cobra swapped his eaton blower out for a centrifugal (pro charger) and made MASSIVE gains!!
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From: orange county, ca
2006 E55
I have a cent. charger on my 3.2l M3 engine, and it only makes more more boost at higher RPMs. This may be benficial on the top end, but I dont think it would help in the low and mid range
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C32 AMG
I am just as crappy as an attorney as I am as an engineer.
On a more serious note - A/C automatically shuts-off at wide open throttle. The reason is that A/C compressor bearings can not handle 6200 rpm.
As far as using centrifugal blower, yes it can be done and it will make more top end power, but we will loose the bottom end TQ that makes twin-screw so great.
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From: Richmond VA
C32
Originally Posted by Vadim @ evosport
As far as using centrifugal blower, yes it can be done and it will make more top end power, but we will loose the bottom end TQ that makes twin-screw so great.
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C32 AMG
Actually CF blower is as efficient as a turbo. It is basically mechanically driven turbine. They both work the same.
The problem is also fabrication. One will need to make a custom bracketry, intercooler and a new intake manifold.
In the end you will have something similar to the graph below. To give a rough idea on what HP/TQ curves will look like.
Red graph is Yamaha (Taurus SHO) 3.2L V6 engine with 9:1 CR, 19 psi Vortech CF Kit.
Blue graph is C32, 3.2L, 9:1 CR, 19 psi IHI twin screw.
The difference in graphs has to do with boost curve. C32 makes 17-19 psi all the way from idle to redline and you can see it from the TQ curve - nice and flat pretty much all the way across.
SHOs boost curve starts at 1 psi and rises pretty much like it's TQ curve until it reaches 19 psi at 8000 rpm.
Although both engine reach the same 360HP at 6000 rpm, C32 has a lot fatter 160-100 ft. lbs. TQ curve. Just exactly what one wants in a street, automatic car.
The problem is also fabrication. One will need to make a custom bracketry, intercooler and a new intake manifold.
In the end you will have something similar to the graph below. To give a rough idea on what HP/TQ curves will look like.
Red graph is Yamaha (Taurus SHO) 3.2L V6 engine with 9:1 CR, 19 psi Vortech CF Kit.
Blue graph is C32, 3.2L, 9:1 CR, 19 psi IHI twin screw.
The difference in graphs has to do with boost curve. C32 makes 17-19 psi all the way from idle to redline and you can see it from the TQ curve - nice and flat pretty much all the way across.
SHOs boost curve starts at 1 psi and rises pretty much like it's TQ curve until it reaches 19 psi at 8000 rpm.
Although both engine reach the same 360HP at 6000 rpm, C32 has a lot fatter 160-100 ft. lbs. TQ curve. Just exactly what one wants in a street, automatic car.
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From: Richmond VA
C32
Originally Posted by Vadim @ evosport
Actually CF blower is as efficient as a turbo. It is basically mechanically driven turbine. They both work the same.
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C32 AMG
No, Aaron you have it reversed. Look at the Lysholm maps you sent me. Twin screw is in 60% range, turbos and CF are in 70%. Some smaller turbos can get in low 80s, but this is as efficient as compressor get.
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From: Richmond VA
C32
Maybe I have the numbers backwards in my head. It has happened before. I will bust out my books when I get home.
BTW, I have been meaning to get Corky Bell's new book on superchargers. have you had a chance to look at it yet?
I will bust out my books when I get home.BTW, I have been meaning to get Corky Bell's new book on superchargers. have you had a chance to look at it yet?
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From: Richmond VA
C32
Originally Posted by Vadim @ evosport
No, Aaron you have it reversed. Look at the Lysholm maps you sent me. Twin screw is in 60% range, turbos and CF are in 70%. Some smaller turbos can get in low 80s, but this is as efficient as compressor get.
http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/faq.asp?faqID=5
The Whipple twin screw compressor is 75% to 85% adiabatic and volumetric efficient while the roots is commonly 40% to 55%. Common centrifugal superchargers have a peak of 65% to 80% but do just that, peak. Over an entire rpm range, a screw compressor has an average efficiency far greater than the roots or centrifugal. Take a look at the efficiency graph, which illustrates the screw compressor efficiency.
The Whipple twin screw compressor is 75% to 85% adiabatic and volumetric efficient while the roots is commonly 40% to 55%. Common centrifugal superchargers have a peak of 65% to 80% but do just that, peak. Over an entire rpm range, a screw compressor has an average efficiency far greater than the roots or centrifugal. Take a look at the efficiency graph, which illustrates the screw compressor efficiency.
BTW, for those that dont know it, Whipple uses lysholm compressors.
