MB_Sport

however, a 6-sp manual M5 will grace our shores this fall, a statement to the fact that SMG is not ready for prime time acceptance yet (as confirmed by my experience driving an SMG car as well as most editors of automobile magazines).

sdsilverm3

You could be correct as I have not actively followed the M5. The fact they didn't release one during the release of the car shows that they didn't intend on making one. I bet all of us Americans *****ed to BMWNA and they finally decided to release the manual. SMG is a cool concept but most of us would rather be in full control of our gear shifts.

My_C55

To be honest if the Mercedes speedshift was on par w/ other high end euro marques in terms of f1 style shifting then we'd have no problem.

In the other cars ferrari/maserati, aston martin, bmw etc etc you have a what amounts to a manual clutch driven transmission being automatically shifted/actuated. The feel and drivability of this type of system is very different then what we have 'an automatic transmission being manually shifted.'

ClayJ

EXACTLY. Technology drives human change on the planet - or humans drive technology which results in change on the planet -- either way, it is technology, change, and humans. No getting around it. Cope. Get used to it. Go with the flow. Etc.

And IMO MBZ has done a better job with their auto-tranny, and a more consistant one, than either Maserati, BMW, or Aston Martin -- to name just a few. I think MBZ is on the second or third generation now of Speedshift? It will only get better....

e63sds36e

Road Test: RENNTECH Mercedes-Benz CLK60

Fiddling with the superb Mercedes-Benz CLK is like approaching a piece of fine art with a touch-up brush; it would be far easier to ruin than improve. RENNTech founder and former AMG technical director in North America, Harmut Feyhl has the credentials to pull off an envelope-expanding transformation worthy of the automotive elite and celebrities that are his customer base.

Beginning with a perfectly desirable Mercedes-Benz CLK430, RENNTech yanks the 4.3-liter/275-horsepower SOHC V-8 to punch it out to a 6.0-liter displacement by increasing both bore and stroke. Only premium components purchased from AMG suppliers and custom-milled by independent shops are used in the exhaustive $50K engine conversion. "My cars are going to still be expensive even if I can save a few hundred dollars here or there," says Hartmut, "To me, it is worth it. I know these components are the best money can buy."

RENNTech-spec upgrades include lightweight Mahle pistons, aggressive camshafts, valves, connecting rods, rocker arms, intake manifold, throttle body, mass air meter, external oil-to-water cooler, engine management programming, and carbon-fiber air filter housing. Resulting output is 408 peak horsepower and nearly 500 pound-feet of torque.

In a corollary $19K procedure, the standard five-speed automatic transmission was ambitiously replaced in this car with a Getrag six-speed manual. Even though Mercedes told Hartmut the swap was impossible, a few won't-take-no-for-an-answer insiders assisted in the development. The manual transmission works with a heavy-duty Sachs dual-mass flywheel and clutch, a setup designed to withstand the 6.0-liter's brutal power onslaught.

This exotic drivetrain combination purrs smoothly at idle, eager to receive heavy accelerator input. Tip into the throttle, and the engine races swiftly and smoothly, awaiting the next shift. The stick has microscopic throws with zero side play. Our test car required somewhat heavy clutch effort, with a shallow engage/disengage range of motion that conspired to permit lightning-quick shifts. Once rolling, judicious throttle application unleashes raging primal forces in the CLK60 that seem to warp time and speed, pushing the driver deep into the supportive Recaro leather bucket seats and slowing the outside world. Motive force is applied through multipiece 18-inch OZ Racing F1 Cup wheels wrapped by wide Pirelli PZero tires at each corner. Behind the massive aluminum wheels lurk Brembo four-piston brakes, with 14-inch front discs and 12-inch rear discs plumbed with stainless lines.

Tested at Moroso Motorsports Park, in south Florida, the CLK60 demanded a mild 1300-1400-rpm launch. Much like a Dodge Viper, any less and the car limps away from the Christmas tree waiting for the revs to climb. Any more, and wheelspin liquifies the $300-apiece Pirelli tires. With the technique sorted out, the CLK60 hit 60 mph in a Corvette-spanking 4.7 seconds, knocking 1.8 seconds (or 28 percent) off the stock CLK430's time. Soaring down the 1320-foot track, the über coupe flew past the quarter-mile mark in 13.3 seconds at 106.4 mph, quicker than an Aston Martin DB7 Vantage, Ferrari 456M, or Porsche 911.

RENNTech fortified the suspension with custom-tuned components, including linear-rate H&R springs and Koni dampers. The lowered car remains flat and stable through turns, orbiting radii as if tethered. Steering is heavier due to tire fitment, with more feedback than the stock car, enhancing road feel without detracting from the upscale motoring experience. Pushed to its considerable limits, the rear-drive car oversteers predictably, encouraging naughty fun.

The interior makeover suits the high-tech spirit of the vehicle, dressing it with an extensive carbon fiber kit, gray-faced gauges, leather/carbon steering wheel, and CLK60 floormats. Body-hugging seats provide the lateral support needed for the centrifuge-level forces this car craves, while also being quite comfortable for tame driving excursions.

Such luxury performance and luxury doesn't come cheap. The cost of the mods alone is near $100,000, or almost $150,000 complete. Pricey, to be sure, but, to a select few, well worth it.

Here is the link to the article: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...es_benz_clk60/

Seems like nothing is impossible for Hartmut at Renntech, as long as you have the $$$ he'll do whatever you want.

PC Valkyrie

I think it is highly unlikely that a true manual stickshift transmission will ever be produced for an AMG car in the near future. Apparantly, their market research has determined that most AMG customers don't want/need a stickshift.

This never made any sense to me. There are some AMG owners that switch to another brand because they want to shift gears using a stick rather than pressing buttons or pulling on paddles. There are even more POTENTIAL car buyers who end up choosing another brand because AMG cars don't have a manual transmission. Of course, if you choose EXISTING AMG customers and ask them whether they want a manual transmission, guess what answer you're going to get??

Ultimately, AMG's niche and strength is in the higher end of the market (E-class, CLS-class, S-class, CL-class, SL-class). I suspect that most customers looking at those AMG cars don't really want/need a stickshift. However, I think there would be a much bigger market for a stickshift option for the lower end models (C55, SLK55, CLK55/63). I think that offerring a manual type transmission for these smaller cars can seriously improve their market share and take some potential enthusiasts that would have bought an M3.

The other issue is development costs. To withstand the massive torque from typcial AMG engines, any manual transmission will have to be very rugged. If they don't feel there is a profitable busineess case, it won't be done.

As for the future, I think everyone agrees that a dual clutch system like Audi's DSG is the gearbox of the future. Works great as a manual or an automated gearbox (much smoother than BMW's SMG).

Just my thoughts though.....

ClayJ

Good Job, e63sds36e, I knew that a tuner had dropped a manual in - just couldn't remember the details. Did you get a date on that conversion -- it was a while ago, right?

And do we know if it worked out over time - although I don't see why it wouldn't necessarily - I seem to also recall hearing that either it proved to be problematic and/or they ended up converting it back...?

And I was going to mention the Getrag as a possibility - like the G50 it is in a bunch of my cars of differing manufacture. BTW CIBA is seeming to be the more modern replacement for the G50....

e63sds36e

The test of the CLK60 was done by Motor Trend in April of 2000. I haven't heard or read on the follow-up of that car. I was just surprised at the time I read it that someone actually did do the swap with all the electronic gadgetry working afterwards.
Since there's an SLK55 from Renntech with a 5spd manual, then I'm sure he (Hartmut) has undertaken these kinds of projects before, but I don't know if they are a mass production from them or not. I couldn't find anything about the manual tranny option on Renntech's website. I think he just flexes his muscles and shows that there's nothing he can't do.
I wonder if anyone bought this one-of-a-kind CLK60 from Renntech...

e63sds36e

here's another car Renntech CLK GTX with a 6spd:
http://www.fantasycars.com/derek/cars/clkgtx.html

and one more link:
http://www.supercars.net/cars/1302.html

Kenzmbz

He made a silver and black one?

newton22

Manual does nothing except for personal preference and fun factor. Aside from that, it might save a little more gas if you like throwing it frequently into highest gear.

ORK1

You are wrong. Manual transmission for Porsches are made by Mercedes.

cntlaw

If I want a manual, I will get the Porsche.
The reason I have chosen the AMG is because it has auto.
Because it is auto, this is why we need more engine power.

m3_eater

No insult is intended by this question, but I suspect something:

Has ANYONE who is posting in this thread against the idea of a manual transmission ever in fact OWNED and loved a car with a manual transmission before? If you are truly a driver/enthusiast who has experienced a good manual tranny, I can't imagine how you could possibly prefer an auto. I mean, the difference is akin to sex without a condom VS with rubber getting in the way of your sensation.

mick1

I can see how some could prefer an auto transmission car: If they could not shift very well, or if they don't care for shifting manually, or if they would share the car with their spouses who don't know how to drive a manual transmission car.

e63sds36e

the silver clk60 by renntech has 400 or so hp and the black clk gtx has about 620hp. i think they're 2 different cars.

i own a 5spd manual car, and i agree the satisfaction derived from shifting your own gears is great (unless you're in a traffic all the time). i think in a perfect world i'd get an e63 as a family sedan and 997tt with a manual as my enthusiast car, but i don't know how likely that would be... whoever has a combo like that is a one lucky owner!

ClayJ

I loved nothing more than shifting a car, until I was...38? 39?...no 39 or 40 - then I got my first good automatic. The difference in traffic was worth the loss of shifting. Period.

At least half of my track cars are manuals, for precisely that reason. In fact, in my track cars, if it has an automatic it is because that was all that was available on the car. And with some of those automatic cars, the fact that downshifts are matched, and that upshifts take 1/5th the time that I could manually do them in? I am starting to like it. Changes the focus more to line and braking and other aspects -- which isn't all that bad, and does or is beginning to make up for the loss of manual shifting....

I do not buy a street-use car - even a supercar - in a manual if an F1 or selectable automatic is available for that car; in which case I take it with the automatic. Why? Because most of its use is going to be on the street, and in traffic - and here is where an auto has it all over a manual, in my preference.

ultraseven

I wouldn't go that far. Going from a manual to an auto isn't exactly BB, but I miss the ability to control my engine revs. Even though AMG touts its Speedshift, it just doesn't shift like a manual. When you drive a manual, once you engage the lever and clutch, the engine responds. The problem isn't necessarily the time it takes to shift, but the delay involved with nudging the lever. I expect the gear to change almost instantaneously when I nudge the level to the left or right, but it just doesn't.

FYI my previous car was a 00 manual Prelude. It shifted exceptionally well, and the clutch was very easy to engage.

Jakez

I also wish my car were a manual. Why not make every car available with a manual transmission? Anywho, it's part of the reason I hang onto my 240sx with a 5 speed manual. If I go without a manual car I really start to miss driving one

scrwmpwr

Lots of projects/conversions being attempted these days, maybe someone will try taking a 203 c230 6speed and frankensteining a c55 front clip onto it.

If I had the funds I would

MBfinatic

^ Did you buy that C320 6spd on ebay about a year ago? I think that was the one I was watching. 30k miles?

There is someone with a clk500 M113 with a C240 6spd swap (6SPDCLK500 I think is his username). He has been driving it for a long time and the transmission is still holding. He spent right around 4k for the swap. If you can find any M112 manual trannys it will work on the 32/55. M112/M113 have the same bell housing bolt pattern. The next problem is to put everything in properly(FIT tranny, driveshaft, etc). You would be a lot better off to find a shop that can help do this swap than drop it off at Renntech .
Renntech offers to do the software change to run with a manual for 800 I have been told. I am curious to see how it would help re-sell. I have heard some talk about people doing it but no one has gone through with it. Well atleast no one that I have seen PROOF.

MBfinatic

Any proof of this?

Sirpent

Gentleman

Start your engines !

The conversion is now posible !


https://mbworld.org/forums/c32-amg-c...61-rs32-4.html