Bif powell

Apologies in advance for the sporadic, train-of-thought-typing-as-I-think-it...

I've been hanging with this local crowd of sport compact folks here in Minnesota - (read: mostly fwd/japanese imports, but some smart people and everyone that I've met is very knowledgable and willing to share information, lots of meets, very active, fun crowd).

Needless to say there aren't many C32 owners in Minnesota so hooking up with them is very hard - seems like you all are CA, AZ, TX, FL, which would make sense - my point is that my only experience in riding with these guys or driving their cars, is from the standpoint of lots of lowering springs and in only a few cases, sometimes coil-overs. I rode with some fairly hard-core autoxers and a couple of their rides were nice and what I was looking for, but some were just too harsh - skittery in the turns on anything other than flat-dry-smooth and what-not.

I drove a 2002 or so IS300 that was obviously gutless, but he had put lowering springs on there and it seemed like it rode nice - much more stiff, I could feel the road etc... I rode in another car that had coil-overs that seemed like it was about the same stiffness and without driving it, it seemed like it felt about the same as the IS300 I guess.

That is all a LOOOONG way around to saying; I hate the handling of this car (stock C32). I want it to be flatter and more sure in the corners and I want some feedback, I want to FEEEL the road. When I drive my dad's X5, it just feels better - it's more solid, I'm more in tune and it's almost more fun to drive than my C32 which KILLS me. Short of getting an M3, I REALLY want a more sports-car-like experience with this car. I thought about getting lowering springs, good ones like renntechs or something, but would that be stiff enough? How low will that go? I want lower, but I don't really want rubbing issues or lots of scraping (but I understand that if I'm gonna be a baller I gotta put up with some scraps ). That gap in the front is brutal, and my next experiment in racing is dragging, so I'd like to try a more rakish setup for that (did autox, next week is dragging, then end of july is road racing).

Should I try springs since they are cheap and try it out for a while and if I don't like that then do the PSS9s? (which seems to be the concensus for the best suspension setup for this car if I'm not mistaken). How much work are coil-overs as opposed to springs? The other factor is that I'm trying to learn to do this kind work myself on my car and is there any difference in skill-levels between these two operations? Is the main/only advantage to coil-overs the adjustability? I don't plan on changing setups a LOT, but could i achieve the same performance with springs and dampeners? (except I would be locked into that setup). How difficult is it to change the setup with coil-overs? - I mean it seems easy, you just change the configuration, but I'm talking about having it be right and balanced, etc....

Obviously I'm looking for some guidance there. Thanks!

Furious

I got PSS9's a couple of months ago and i have absolutely no regrets. The car handles much much better without sacrificing ride quality. The ride will be stiffer but by no means harsh. I had thought about just going with springs, but I didn't want to be wishing that I had gotten coilovers afterwards.

I've had friends in the car going through the twisties and they are quite impressed. Huge plus with the coilovers is that you can go with the amount of lowering that suits you (to a point of course). You will need a wheel alignment when you lower the car, so you won't want to be adjusting the height all of the time. I've had mine set at the middle setting (5) ever since i've had them installed and been quite happy with the compromise between handling and comfort.

They will take about 4 hours to install.

In the end, they weren't cheap. About $2900 Cdn ($2400 for the coilovers, $400 for install and $100 for wheel spacers), so probably be around $2500 all in for you guys in the States. Worth it imo, because I really wasn't satisfied with the stock suspension.

ClayJ

PSS9's or the Carlsson product (which is just about exactly the same thing) are a VERY good suspension setup for your car.

raywong@hkstar.

I have the PSS9 now, had the H&R spring setup before. The PSS9 is better. but a w203 is still a w203, you will never get any feed back from the steering. Even at the hardest setting, it still feels like driving a boat. IMO the little improvement is not worth the money I spent.

sdsilverm3

Why pay so much for a set of PSS9 coilovers when you can get KW V2's for ~$1000 less? Tein coilovers are even cheaper in price.

I don't see the advantages of the Pss9's to justify the higher price.

FrankW

they all have very little differences IMO. just depends on what level of comfort you want and how much you want to spend.

I think we should gather as many different suspension setup as possible at the next meet, so people can give and get feedbacks on each setup. I've only driven TEIN SS and H&R for the W203. The KW V2 I've experienced was on a friend's 02 M3 which I find it harsher than the H&R or TEIN, but that's probably due to the car.

I had the RENNtech springs with oem shocks. It improved the handling dramatically and other than a little bouncy over un-even roads the car rides much like stock.

BlackC230Coupe

TEIN suck! Why put honda parts on a Mercedes. Its almost as bad as people putting Volk wheels on Euros.

Bif powell

So if I were content with one setting, what would anyone recommend I get for a lowered, much more firm, better handling setup? Some kind of lowering/performance spring and then some other dampener or would the stock dampener with a lowering spring make a big difference. This is an attractive option for 1. price, and 2. I can work my way up to it, being a novice in this area; try the springs alone, then later try some higher performance dampener. I'm doing autox events and some road racing, but I drive 7/10 throughout the day as well. Thanks!

smgC32

do a search here as well as C32life a few years back and you will find extensive documentation on this topic.

For what you are doing, I recommend the RENNtech springs for you. Huge improvement in looks, works with the stock dampers, and great gains in the handling department. They will cost you a few hundred more than the competition, but worth it. Ask anyone who owns them. Unless you plan on being a diehard racer, don't buy the Bilstein/Carlsson coilovers, and I own these. Much harsher than RENNtech springs and H&R coilovers. Borderline unacceptable for a daily street driven car, but I do it every day and am not happy about it. On the track they excel. The H&R coilovers and the RENNtech springs are very similar in nature; better ride than stock without sacraficing ride quality. I am sure the KW's are similar and the V2's are adjustable in rebound. For coilovers, I would try these next on my car to evaluate the difference. I don't like the concept of adjusting compression along with rebound given the same constant spring rate. As with any strut/shock, you can always revalve the units as you desire.

Volk makes a great wheel. The TE-37 is one if the lightest and strongest forged wheel. They make a BMW specific fitment that several racers use. They would make a great track set of wheels if they came in our offset and bolt diameter pattern. Many BBS wheels come from the same country of origin and no one complains about that.

BlackC230Coupe

Indeed they do, off Mercedes they are a fabulous wheel.

sdsilverm3

bbs-japan.co.jp

dsC32

You might start with a set of 18 inch wheels. I still believe that one of the biggest differences in handling between the C32 and the C55 is the fact that 18 inch wheels give a much lower sidewall and therefore better turn in and handling.

FrankW

no one seems to complaining when they put SSR wheels on their MBZ...

Volks are great wheels...if their design goes with our car. I'd put them on.

dragonAMG

I had the PSS9's on my C55K S7 and love them! Highly recommended.

CynCarvin32

While SMG hates his Carlsson RS kit on the street, I must add that I have extended seat time in his car and I personaly love that suspension on the track. He gets a little wrapped up in wanting a luxury car for going to work but also wanting a car that can lap the local tracks with 996 Twin Turbos. He loves his firm riding BMW but dislikes the MB and its firm ride.

But he is right in saying stiffening a car with shock valving is not ideal and leads to a very firm and sometimes annoying vehicle. Ideally the car would work better with a firmer spring and a bit of a softer shock that allows the spring to soak up some of the bumps while still being well controlled.

He is right in saying that the car is pretty firm but its actually nice in my eyes. I love stiffly sprung cars that dont bottom out EVER and that can be thrown around with ease. The harsh ride is just a side factor and I kind of like the feeling of knowing what is going on with the car rather than having it hidden from me through spring travel

Sorry SMG I had to say the Carlsson is fantastic just to mix things up. I would get a PSS-9 well before a Set of spirngs but that is me...I like the stiff ride!

CynCarvin32

It is a myth that smaller tires = better turn in. I has been shown that having upgraded wheels makes the car more skittish and less controlable at speed.

Wheels look far better when they get larger but the smaller tie sidewall absorbs less of the road and makes the chassis take the brunt of any pavement change.

Also the car breaks away more abruptly when the tire has a smalle side wall making it harder to drive at the limit.

Large heavy cars need big brakes to slow at the track so 18 inch wheels are a must but a 17 inch wheel on the same car in the same width and the same tires compound would likely perform equally as well numerically and feel better than a car with 18 inch wheels.

Finally a car with small tires has less steering feel than a a car with larger tire sidewalls. Cars in the past that had fantastic steering had 15 inch wheels and 65 series tires. Its a matter of losing feel for a car that darts into the apex like a bolt of lightning.

Race cars dont run small sidewalls and often have larger sidewalls than their street car counterparts.

ClayJ

What he said!

(and well-put, at that ).