335i tested by Sport Auto on Nurburgring
#26
No doubt, tuners will make a 335 equal to and better than the current M3. But I would not put my money down on anything but Dinan or another tuner that's willing to preserve or match the BMW warranty. A lot of what you pay for a new car is the value of the warranty; and who wants to pay $15,000 for a new engine or transmission?
#28
I don't belive that pointing out two irrefutable facts, namely that point out that semi-race tires were used on the CSL, and that (obviously) this would greatly decrease its lap times, illustrates a bias towards anything. Do you?
Last edited by Improviz; 09-17-2006 at 12:54 PM.
#29
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That's called objective, isn't it?
The statement is supposed to be interpreted literally. So chill. I'm not M&M or Gustav trying to pick a fight here.
The statement is supposed to be interpreted literally. So chill. I'm not M&M or Gustav trying to pick a fight here.
#30
To you and me, yes....to skratch, no.
You threw me with the rolf's at the end, which I thought was sarcasm. Ah, the trials and tribulations of inference....
You threw me with the rolf's at the end, which I thought was sarcasm. Ah, the trials and tribulations of inference....
#31
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08 S65, 06 M3 CS(stick), 02 BMW X5 4.6iS, 07 R1 Raven, 08 F-450 4x4, 08 CooperS JCW
Improviz- I am also not Gustav or M&M. I am also under no illusions that 55s and 32s have the beating of M3s in a straightline. They are very nice, classy cars. However, you must remember that whatever you say about them, the CSL tires are bone stock. Of curse, they are designed for the track, but I appreciate that in this day and age a maker has the ***** to release something like that. The CSL is proof that it doesn't take 700bhp to lap the 'Ring quickly, conversely the Elise is proof that it does take some amount of power. 360bhp is about right on that track, it's so old and bumpy.
#32
This is not meant to take anything away from the CSL, a truly remarkable car, but merely to point out that had it been shod w/Conti's or other standard-M3-OEM tires, it certainly would have turned a notably slower lap, albeit still a damned impressive one.
Of curse, they are designed for the track, but I appreciate that in this day and age a maker has the ***** to release something like that. The CSL is proof that it doesn't take 700bhp to lap the 'Ring quickly, conversely the Elise is proof that it does take some amount of power. 360bhp is about right on that track, it's so old and bumpy.
Trust me, I'm no BMW hater; in fact, quite the contrary; I'm quite interested in, and will be taking a serious look at purchasing, the upcoming M3, now that they've finally stuck a V8 in there!! (Waiting for collective gasp....)
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08 S65, 06 M3 CS(stick), 02 BMW X5 4.6iS, 07 R1 Raven, 08 F-450 4x4, 08 CooperS JCW
Improviz...
What you say regarding the CSL is all correct. And yes, from the limited knowledge I do have of you, that is amazing you are considering a new M3. If you can live with the styling, i'm positive it'll be one hell of a car and you won't regret your purchase.
Funnilt enough I was thinking of jumping marques. I went to Keyes Audi in Van Nuys yesterday on the off chance they had an RS4 in. They didn't all three were sold. Probably lucky because had I driven that beast it could of been a very expensive Saturday morning for me and bye-bye to the iS. I couldn't do that to the loyal sevant though!
Take it easy
Funnilt enough I was thinking of jumping marques. I went to Keyes Audi in Van Nuys yesterday on the off chance they had an RS4 in. They didn't all three were sold. Probably lucky because had I driven that beast it could of been a very expensive Saturday morning for me and bye-bye to the iS. I couldn't do that to the loyal sevant though!
Take it easy
#34
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wow I didnt think that would cause all this drama lol...OK there race tires happy
hey impro what do you think helped more.The street legal tires or the 300 lb weight savings,3x better brakes,completely tuned suspention,race setting SMG speed shifts,better track gearing for each shift and a highly tuned s54 engine with an alpha n ECU running no hfm and doing all the calculations on the fly to squeeze out 113 hp/l
your trying to bring down the CSL using the tires exactly the oposite from what I was doing wich was really to correct the track time that was said above.
the tires helped but not as much as you think.
heres a little video of a 18 year old M3 chasing a Porche gt around the ring
this is a regular kid weraing a basball cap chasing a super car
Ill take a guess and say that the next CSL will do 7.45 around the ring giver or take and 7.40 with real race tires NOT STREET LEGAL
hey impro what do you think helped more.The street legal tires or the 300 lb weight savings,3x better brakes,completely tuned suspention,race setting SMG speed shifts,better track gearing for each shift and a highly tuned s54 engine with an alpha n ECU running no hfm and doing all the calculations on the fly to squeeze out 113 hp/l
your trying to bring down the CSL using the tires exactly the oposite from what I was doing wich was really to correct the track time that was said above.
the tires helped but not as much as you think.
heres a little video of a 18 year old M3 chasing a Porche gt around the ring
this is a regular kid weraing a basball cap chasing a super car
Ill take a guess and say that the next CSL will do 7.45 around the ring giver or take and 7.40 with real race tires NOT STREET LEGAL
Last edited by skratch77; 09-17-2006 at 02:39 PM.
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Calm down, cow boy. No one's beating down your beloved CSL.
I think impro is just saying that comparing car running on PS2 and PS Cup is simply not fair, so the time of 7:50 is not a good comparison for other cars unless they're running on the same tires.
I think impro is just saying that comparing car running on PS2 and PS Cup is simply not fair, so the time of 7:50 is not a good comparison for other cars unless they're running on the same tires.
#36
wow I didnt think that would cause all this drama lol...OK there race tires happy
hey impro what do you think helped more.The street legal tires or the 300 lb weight savings,3x better brakes,completely tuned suspention,race setting SMG speed shifts,better track gearing for each shift and a highly tuned s54 engine with an alpha n ECU running no hfm and doing all the calculations on the fly to squeeze out 113 hp/l
hey impro what do you think helped more.The street legal tires or the 300 lb weight savings,3x better brakes,completely tuned suspention,race setting SMG speed shifts,better track gearing for each shift and a highly tuned s54 engine with an alpha n ECU running no hfm and doing all the calculations on the fly to squeeze out 113 hp/l
Here are a few links you might want to read:
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/ro..._acceleration/
Originally Posted by Sport Compact Car magazine
In fairness, we should point out Vishnu's car arrived at our test wearing tires that gave it a significant advantage in every handling test. When it comes to managing the thermal loads produced by such powerful and heavy all-wheel-drive hardware, any R-compound rubber offers a huge advantage over even the best street tire, and the Toyo RA1s worn by the Vishnu car are perhaps the most streetable R-compound tire available. We estimate that on the Streets of Willow these tires are worth between 2 and 3 seconds per lap....Around the skidpad, Vishnu's WRX again blew the curve with its sticky Toyos helping it achieve .97g--.05g better than the test average. All three remaining cars were within .01g of each other, hovering in the .90g to .91g range.
So please: do some homework and take off the BMW goggles for once. Tires make an ENORMOUS difference in a car's laptimes, and to argue otherwise is showing your ignorance. Nobody was arguing that tires were the ONLY factor, but they certainly are a BIG factor.
Have a look at the Subaru Sti Spec-C's lap time of 7'58"...No engine mods compared to the normal STi, otherwise it's the same type of deal as the CSL: a bunch of weight savings (120Kg), some suspension tuning, etc....and lo and behold, stickier tires. All of which netted it a savings of about 26" per lap compared to the normal STi.
Which shows that stickier tires, weight savings, drivetrain mods, and suspension mods make a car faster around a race track. What could it have done with more power, like the CSL's got??
Wow, thank you for that. Learn something new every day!
Last edited by Improviz; 09-17-2006 at 04:03 PM.
#37
!!!
Pilot Sport Cups are tires from GOD himself.
There's a reason why in a certain Evo Tuner blowout test a few months ago no one was allowed to use those tires.
Sure they might be OEM, but to discredit the tires is wrong. Yes the CSL is a beast of a car (360hp, and an exhaust tone that sounds like a VTEC with it's ***** dropped), we're not saying it's not, but you must acknowledge the tires played a big role in getting many seconds shaved off.
the tires helped but not as much as you think.
There's a reason why in a certain Evo Tuner blowout test a few months ago no one was allowed to use those tires.
Sure they might be OEM, but to discredit the tires is wrong. Yes the CSL is a beast of a car (360hp, and an exhaust tone that sounds like a VTEC with it's ***** dropped), we're not saying it's not, but you must acknowledge the tires played a big role in getting many seconds shaved off.
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2005 Renntech C class
!!!
Pilot Sport Cups are tires from GOD himself.
There's a reason why in a certain Evo Tuner blowout test a few months ago no one was allowed to use those tires.
Sure they might be OEM, but to discredit the tires is wrong. Yes the CSL is a beast of a car (360hp, and an exhaust tone that sounds like a VTEC with it's ***** dropped), we're not saying it's not, but you must acknowledge the tires played a big role in getting many seconds shaved off.
Pilot Sport Cups are tires from GOD himself.
There's a reason why in a certain Evo Tuner blowout test a few months ago no one was allowed to use those tires.
Sure they might be OEM, but to discredit the tires is wrong. Yes the CSL is a beast of a car (360hp, and an exhaust tone that sounds like a VTEC with it's ***** dropped), we're not saying it's not, but you must acknowledge the tires played a big role in getting many seconds shaved off.
I've seen them last 15k miles on the street and that's why they use these at the 25hour of thunderhill to save tire changing time.
btw...plz don't diss vtecs. Nobody else pushing 120hp/liter out there rite?
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08 S65, 06 M3 CS(stick), 02 BMW X5 4.6iS, 07 R1 Raven, 08 F-450 4x4, 08 CooperS JCW
I'm assuming you only mean NA engines?
Still wrong though. Mazdas 1.3 rotary develops 228hp. Like a VTEC it also makes no torque.
Still wrong though. Mazdas 1.3 rotary develops 228hp. Like a VTEC it also makes no torque.
#41
God adapts, you can use Cups on the street (although I would question your sanity)
BTW: What other tires would you put in the category of Competition tires?
I didn't diss vtecs btw.
BTW: What other tires would you put in the category of Competition tires?
I didn't diss vtecs btw.
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C55 AMG, 135i, 911 GT3, GLE43 AMG
Well, to bring this thread back on topic, here are some more detailed numbers from the Sport Auto test of the 335i. In their article, they listed the numbers from the E46 M3, W203 C55, and B6 S4 Avant which were tested previously. Here are the major categories of their test.
Nuburgring laptime:
1) M3: 8.22minutes
2) C55: 8:22 minutes
3) 335i: 8:26 minutes
4) S4 Avant: 8:29 minutes
Hockenheim laptime:
1) M3: 1.17,6 minutes
2) 335i: 1.17.8 minutes
3) C55: 1.18,6 minutes
4) S4 Avant: 1.19,1 minutes
0-200-0 km/h
1) M3: 23.2 seconds
2) C55: 23.7 seconds
3) 335i: 26.3 seconds
4) S4 Avant: 26.4 seconds
Transverse acceleration:
1) 335i: 1.15 g
2) M3: 1.10 g
3) C55: 1.10 g
4) S4 Avant: 1.05 g
Slalom course (36m)
1) 335i: 136 km/h
2) M3: 123 km/h
3) C55: 122 km/h
4) S4 Avant: 121 km/h
Evasive course (110m)
1) 335i: 136 km/h
2) M3: 136 km/h
3) C55: 134 km/h
4) S4 Avant: 130 km/h
Total points indicative of the "overall assessment"
1) 335i: 45
2) M3: 44
3) C55: 42
4) S4 Avant: 37
In other words, Sport Auto, which places an emphasis on handling rather than straight line speed, ranks the new 335i above the E46 M3. Quite an achievement for a non-M car with stock 17" rims.
Nuburgring laptime:
1) M3: 8.22minutes
2) C55: 8:22 minutes
3) 335i: 8:26 minutes
4) S4 Avant: 8:29 minutes
Hockenheim laptime:
1) M3: 1.17,6 minutes
2) 335i: 1.17.8 minutes
3) C55: 1.18,6 minutes
4) S4 Avant: 1.19,1 minutes
0-200-0 km/h
1) M3: 23.2 seconds
2) C55: 23.7 seconds
3) 335i: 26.3 seconds
4) S4 Avant: 26.4 seconds
Transverse acceleration:
1) 335i: 1.15 g
2) M3: 1.10 g
3) C55: 1.10 g
4) S4 Avant: 1.05 g
Slalom course (36m)
1) 335i: 136 km/h
2) M3: 123 km/h
3) C55: 122 km/h
4) S4 Avant: 121 km/h
Evasive course (110m)
1) 335i: 136 km/h
2) M3: 136 km/h
3) C55: 134 km/h
4) S4 Avant: 130 km/h
Total points indicative of the "overall assessment"
1) 335i: 45
2) M3: 44
3) C55: 42
4) S4 Avant: 37
In other words, Sport Auto, which places an emphasis on handling rather than straight line speed, ranks the new 335i above the E46 M3. Quite an achievement for a non-M car with stock 17" rims.
#43
Impressive....
...the turbo loses wind a bit up high compared w/the big V8, but it's still respectably quick, and has very impressive handling toboot. Helluva car, that's for sure. And given that I doubt they'd allow their second-stringer to outhandle their flagship, it bodes very well for the next-gen M3.
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2005 Renntech C class
Competition tires on the US market:
Nitto NT01
Michelin pilot sport cup
Kumho V700, V710, Victoracer
Toyo RA1
Hoosier A6/R6
Hankook has 3 but forgot the name
Yokohama A048/A032R
Pirelli P Zero Corsa
VTECS have no torque for sure but they are really a blast to thrash on the race track =)
Nitto NT01
Michelin pilot sport cup
Kumho V700, V710, Victoracer
Toyo RA1
Hoosier A6/R6
Hankook has 3 but forgot the name
Yokohama A048/A032R
Pirelli P Zero Corsa
VTECS have no torque for sure but they are really a blast to thrash on the race track =)