Which Pulley??
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,342
Likes: 11
From: PA
S600, GL450, GLC 43
The gains will obviously not be as much as overboost pulley but then again it isn't meant to be and the price is less than half of hte overboost pulleys. Also boost pulleys can give alot of headaches and etc. Mileage gains are typically 2-5mpg depending on car & mods. Gains for non-kompressor engines are roughly 10-15 HP, gains for kompressor pulleys are roughly 15-20. Not as much as say 50-75HP but then again the mileage gains alone means the pulley over time will pay for itself where as overboost pulleys will increase fuel consumption and gas costs even more, so its a tradeoff each owner has to decide for themselves.
Okay, so you are thinking that a 2-3 lb loss on recipricating mass is going to give you a 10to20 percent gain in mileage? Sorry but the math doesn't add up. The entire rotating assembly, crank, pistons, rods, cams, torque convertor weighs in at over 100 lbs. There is NO way a 2% reduction in mass can give you that increase in mileage. It just doesn't add up my friend. TOO many compaines report BS like this trying to get you to BUY in.
A side note, I tried undrive/ligther pullies on my stang, awhile back before the blower. I made 3 passes at the drag strip 14.3 at 96 mph, put the pullies on, LATER in the night with COOLER air, and guess what, 14.3 at 96 mph.
Moral of the story, DON'T BELEIVE EVERYTHING YOU READ
See yeah
PS: On my way home that night it started to rain, with the A/C on, headlights, and stereo on, each time my wipers would click on, the Volt meter would go into the red. I sold the pullies later that week for about 2/3 of what I paid and NEVER looked back
Last edited by MRAMG1; Sep 25, 2007 at 06:35 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 329
Likes: 1
e55
lightweight crankpulleys have been dyno proven since the muscle car era. The topic has been prove time and time again. using 1/4 runs is HARDLY an accurate way to measure that b/c variability between 1/4 mile runs can be as much as .5-1 sec between runs so using that as a benchmark is hardly scientific. Also weight reduction off crank pulleys is alot more than 2-3lbs.
General engine theory states that ever pound taken off crank pulley equates to roughly 2.7-3 wheel HP-tq. Most lightweight crank pulleys for euro cars are between 4-7lbs lighter so its simple math.
E36 M3 boys have been using them for years, they dyno 10-12HP every time single time and have been proven to work. I'm not gonna rehash 30 years of proven dynos. Lightweight Crank pulleys have been proven time and time again to work simple as that.
I agree underdrive pulleys suck thats why I would only do stock diameter lightweight crank pulleys.
General engine theory states that ever pound taken off crank pulley equates to roughly 2.7-3 wheel HP-tq. Most lightweight crank pulleys for euro cars are between 4-7lbs lighter so its simple math.
E36 M3 boys have been using them for years, they dyno 10-12HP every time single time and have been proven to work. I'm not gonna rehash 30 years of proven dynos. Lightweight Crank pulleys have been proven time and time again to work simple as that.
I agree underdrive pulleys suck thats why I would only do stock diameter lightweight crank pulleys.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,342
Likes: 11
From: PA
S600, GL450, GLC 43
General engine theory states that ever pound taken off crank pulley equates to roughly 2.7-3 wheel HP-tq. Most lightweight crank pulleys for euro cars are between 4-7lbs lighter so its simple math.
E36 M3 boys have been using them for years, they dyno 10-12HP every time single time and have been proven to work. I'm not gonna rehash 30 years of proven dynos. Lightweight Crank pulleys have been proven time and time again to work simple as that.
I agree underdrive pulleys suck thats why I would only do stock diameter lightweight crank pulleys.
E36 M3 boys have been using them for years, they dyno 10-12HP every time single time and have been proven to work. I'm not gonna rehash 30 years of proven dynos. Lightweight Crank pulleys have been proven time and time again to work simple as that.
I agree underdrive pulleys suck thats why I would only do stock diameter lightweight crank pulleys.
First thing, I am not looking to bash here, but the E36 boys, Vadium being the one who did it/dyno, and I REALLY RESPECT HIM, used aluminum, under drive pullies to get those numbers.
By the way where did you get General engine theory states that ever pound taken off crank pulley equates to roughly 2.7-3 wheel HP-tq? I have seen this on the recipracting mass, ie piston,rods, crank, but NOT flywheels, pullies.
Second, why does EVERY flywheel manufactures only claim faster reving/braking with a aluminum flywheel, and NO horsepower increase, as the flywheel shaves 15 plus pounds. Some even OVER 30 lbs on the old HIPOS!
I am just saying that balancer mass decrease does NOT gaurentee BIG horsepower increase. Your money can be better off spent in other directions.
You may see some gain, no argument here, but you will not pick up that HUGE mileage increase.
And you are right about ET NOT being a good indicator, however MPH IS A VERY GOOD indicator of HP.
See yeah
By the way, yeah under drive pullies for street cars do suck my friend
Banned
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,855
Likes: 2
From: Southern California
S600TT, R350
Mileage gains are typically 2-5mpg depending on car & mods. Gains for non-kompressor engines are roughly 10-15 HP, gains for kompressor pulleys are roughly 15-20
General engine theory states that ever pound taken off crank pulley equates to roughly 2.7-3 wheel HP-tq. Most lightweight crank pulleys for euro cars are between 4-7lbs lighter so its simple math.
E36 M3 boys have been using them for years, they dyno 10-12HP every time single time and have been proven to work. I'm not gonna rehash 30 years of proven dynos. Lightweight Crank pulleys have been proven time and time again to work simple as that.
I agree underdrive pulleys suck thats why I would only do stock diameter lightweight crank pulleys.
E55 PWR: I do not mean to pick on you, but everything that you just stated goes against my 27 years of experience of working on cars. It is exactly opposite and simply sounds like a typicall marketing lingo coming out of many young, inexperiences companies.
Last edited by Vadim @ FD; Sep 25, 2007 at 07:20 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 329
Likes: 1
e55
crank pulleys always produce more than accessory pulley systems. Even those who have tried crank pulleys who have accessory pulley systems will agree. In addition, Accessory pulley systems work as a function of rpms, they need rpms to make a difference so you really only get decent gains above 5000rpm. Crank pulleys work as a function of torque. They make maximum gains at maximum torque which is why they produce much more low end to mid range gains than accessory pulley systems. On the E36s I had never seen a single accessory pulley kit make more than 3-4wheel HP, they just don't do that much and they force you to make a ton of sacrifices (which you should not be doing on a Mercedes in a first place, we don't drive honda civics for a reason). I had both on my E36 M3 and accessory pulleys barely did anything (similar to fan delete). The crank pulley got me roughly 10-12 Hp on the dyno throughout the rpm range. massive difference. just speaking from personal experience dynos dont lie
I know you aren't trying to pic on me but you just are not correct in this matter.
I know you aren't trying to pic on me but you just are not correct in this matter.
Last edited by E55 PWR; Sep 25, 2007 at 10:41 PM.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,347
Likes: 1
From: So Cal
2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
AMS Crank pulley vs. VRUS Underdrive Pulley
I just sent $270 via PayPal to VRUS for his C55 UPD and my car is with Vadim right now. After all the mods are installed, I'd like to see which pulley makes a bigger difference if any. Then we'll see what the combination of the two will do. I saved $150 vs. the EVOSPORT UDP listed at $370 + tax + shipping.
Now I just wonder if the VRUS UDP matches up in quality and performance against the EVOSPORT UPD for a C55.
The reason I do not want a different sized Crank Pulley is because I am already making 6+psi on my HPS SC kit and it would not be safe to run beyond that on a 11:1 compression ratio C55 motor.
btw... Both of these pullies are for Natually Aspirated C55s. My HPS kit uses the same pullies as a stock C55. Only thing the kit adds is a SC pulley made by HPS. Many stock C55 owners have reported great results with the AMS + EVOSPORT pulley combination. I think it's the safest mod for non-blown C55s and will not affect the warranty.
Now I just wonder if the VRUS UDP matches up in quality and performance against the EVOSPORT UPD for a C55.
The reason I do not want a different sized Crank Pulley is because I am already making 6+psi on my HPS SC kit and it would not be safe to run beyond that on a 11:1 compression ratio C55 motor.
btw... Both of these pullies are for Natually Aspirated C55s. My HPS kit uses the same pullies as a stock C55. Only thing the kit adds is a SC pulley made by HPS. Many stock C55 owners have reported great results with the AMS + EVOSPORT pulley combination. I think it's the safest mod for non-blown C55s and will not affect the warranty.
Last edited by AMGSC; Sep 26, 2007 at 12:21 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 329
Likes: 1
e55
the stock diameter AMS crank pulley will work on HPS cars as well, SC would never know the difference nor would the ECU. Its 100% safe. As far as the HPS warranty issue, that I don't know but if it runs off stock pulley I would assume that would not be factor. You'd have to talk to HPS directly about that.
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Banned
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,855
Likes: 2
From: Southern California
S600TT, R350
crank pulleys always produce more than accessory pulley systems. Even those who have tried crank pulleys who have accessory pulley systems will agree. In addition, Accessory pulley systems work as a function of rpms, they need rpms to make a difference so you really only get decent gains above 5000rpm. Crank pulleys work as a function of torque. They make maximum gains at maximum torque which is why they produce much more low end to mid range gains than accessory pulley systems. On the E36s I had never seen a single accessory pulley kit make more than 3-4wheel HP, they just don't do that much and they force you to make a ton of sacrifices (which you should not be doing on a Mercedes in a first place, we don't drive honda civics for a reason). I had both on my E36 M3 and accessory pulleys barely did anything (similar to fan delete). The crank pulley got me roughly 10-12 Hp on the dyno throughout the rpm range. massive difference. just speaking from personal experience dynos dont lie
I know you aren't trying to pic on me but you just are not correct in this matter.
I know you aren't trying to pic on me but you just are not correct in this matter.
Sorry, I do not care to argue with you. It is obvious to me that you have some kind of interest in AMS and will keep pushing their product.
I wish you best of luck.
