Twin-Turbo & Twin-Screw SCharged C55!
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I'm not trying to be a buzz kill and I also have the mod bug big time. Just becareful and make sure that the details and specifications are shared with you. If it sounds too good to be true...well, you know.
Ask for the specs on the engine build. What's going to be done to beef up the fuel system? Will all of this require a standalone?
For AMGSC: Ask why twin charging? What's the benefit? How will the tuner deal with the parasitic loss of the supercharger? Will there be some type of bypass valve once the turbos spool? What about the additional heat? Beyond 700 HP the 55 cars run out of fuel. How will that be handled?
I'm skeptical because there is no advantage to twin charging this engine.
Just don't want to see you guys dissapointed or burned. I sincerely wish you good luck and I must admit that it's always fun trying something new.
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From: Sin City
2005 E55 AMG - - 2005 SL55 AMG - - - - - - 2006 SLK55 AMG - - - - - - 2013 Ducati Diavel AMG -
Here's a $100k Mitsubishi Evolution:
http://72.41.83.159/images/st-anima-opt.gif
It's twincharged. It's mine, and while it was a lot of fun, it did not perform any better than an Evo with Gt42r turbo. There was very little lag but this was a 2.1L destroked engine.
A 5.5L does not need any help down low. Also, I read about the new pistons, rods, and cranks. The AMG SC engine is stout and built for boost. Make sure that you know what you're spending money on.
I currently have a Porsche GT2 built by EVOMS with a built 3.8L and twin GT30r turbos. I couldn't imagine having any additional power down low. I also have a Heffner Viper with an automatic tranny (for drag racing), and it doesn't need any help down low.
I'll be the first to admit that these one off (or first of) projects are a lot of fun but I keep reading about this new tuner being some guru yet no one has posted any performance numbers. Has anyone even taken one of these cars to the track? Is it really just all talk right now?
http://72.41.83.159/images/st-anima-opt.gif
It's twincharged. It's mine, and while it was a lot of fun, it did not perform any better than an Evo with Gt42r turbo. There was very little lag but this was a 2.1L destroked engine.
A 5.5L does not need any help down low. Also, I read about the new pistons, rods, and cranks. The AMG SC engine is stout and built for boost. Make sure that you know what you're spending money on.
I currently have a Porsche GT2 built by EVOMS with a built 3.8L and twin GT30r turbos. I couldn't imagine having any additional power down low. I also have a Heffner Viper with an automatic tranny (for drag racing), and it doesn't need any help down low.
I'll be the first to admit that these one off (or first of) projects are a lot of fun but I keep reading about this new tuner being some guru yet no one has posted any performance numbers. Has anyone even taken one of these cars to the track? Is it really just all talk right now?
I didn't change my block, crank, or rods. I was speaking about AMGSC because his engine is not a stock Kompressor, and he needs to upgrade these parts.
I'm installing steel sleeves that are bored 0.2L into my stock block, my stock crank will be knife-edged and lighten, my stock rods will have ARP rod bolts, but I will change my pistons to a higher quality, stronger and better oiled forged pistons. My oil pump will also be ported and enhanced.
I'm not one that must see numbers first in order to buy mods and I may never take my car to the track. Victor knows what he is building and I know what I'm getting. It's a no-brainer in my book.
VRP is just starting out and the reason you don’t see any numbers is because these mods have just started. He is tailoring to the customer’s needs and what we want.
I hear what you’re saying, but as far as VRP is concerned, I have no worries!
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I understand what you are saying and I appreciate your input.
I didn't change my block, crank, or rods. I was speaking about AMGSC because his engine is not a stock Kompressor, and he needs to upgrade these parts.
I'm installing steel sleeves that are bored 0.2L into my stock block, my stock crank will be knife-edged and lighten, my stock rods will have ARP rod bolts, but I will change my pistons to a higher quality, stronger and better oiled forged pistons. My oil pump will also be ported and enhanced.
I'm not one that must see numbers first in order to buy mods and I may never take my car to the track. Victor knows what he is building and I know what I'm getting. It's a no-brainer in my book.
VRP is just starting out and the reason you don’t see any numbers is because these mods have just started. He is tailoring to the customer’s needs and what we want.
I hear what you’re saying, but as far as VRP is concerned, I have no worries!
I didn't change my block, crank, or rods. I was speaking about AMGSC because his engine is not a stock Kompressor, and he needs to upgrade these parts.
I'm installing steel sleeves that are bored 0.2L into my stock block, my stock crank will be knife-edged and lighten, my stock rods will have ARP rod bolts, but I will change my pistons to a higher quality, stronger and better oiled forged pistons. My oil pump will also be ported and enhanced.
I'm not one that must see numbers first in order to buy mods and I may never take my car to the track. Victor knows what he is building and I know what I'm getting. It's a no-brainer in my book.
VRP is just starting out and the reason you don’t see any numbers is because these mods have just started. He is tailoring to the customer’s needs and what we want.
I hear what you’re saying, but as far as VRP is concerned, I have no worries!
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From: So Cal
2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
UHh Robert there was an m5 who tried to put the turbos in the back that never worked right i would suggest looking at newer technology. Also they were horribly laggy even though they were full bb turbos. Anyone that tell you this works.....well. They also had a problem with oiling the turbos.
I know Gintani is doing cnc exhaust manifolds now......can you say compact turbo system.
I know there was a guy that was doing this to mustangs replacing the muffler with turbos. Also why use the original c55 block.... the na block is weak compared to its supercharged counterpart.
Id like to hear how they plan to oil the thing properly as well as how they believe the main caps wont walk. There is a difference in blocks. Get everything in writing dont be foolish....
I know Gintani is doing cnc exhaust manifolds now......can you say compact turbo system.
I know there was a guy that was doing this to mustangs replacing the muffler with turbos. Also why use the original c55 block.... the na block is weak compared to its supercharged counterpart.
Id like to hear how they plan to oil the thing properly as well as how they believe the main caps wont walk. There is a difference in blocks. Get everything in writing dont be foolish....
I can also find a happy home for this rare Kleemann Autorotor Twin-Screw with custom pulley that can push boost past 14lbs that I picked up last week!
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300ce
..........Further, although Vadim knows a lot about cars, I think the idea of installing a Kleemanns s/c in a car with 11.5:1 compression and then adding turbos is not wise. I think Vrus first thought this up for a W211 E55 and in that case it made more sense, but not for your car. Are you dead set on a C55 chasis?
Ted
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Ted is exactly right.
You're about to begin a project that will become a money pit and have the inevitable "one off" quirks. A CL65 with Kleemann or Renntech ECU mods will not only be faster than a twin charged C55 but it will be much less expensive.
I tend to get very nervous when I hear about a new company creating a half a dozen one off projects. I'm concerned that we'll still be reading about these same "projects" 6 months to a year from now.
You're about to begin a project that will become a money pit and have the inevitable "one off" quirks. A CL65 with Kleemann or Renntech ECU mods will not only be faster than a twin charged C55 but it will be much less expensive.
I tend to get very nervous when I hear about a new company creating a half a dozen one off projects. I'm concerned that we'll still be reading about these same "projects" 6 months to a year from now.
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From: So Cal
2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
............Are you totally stuck on a C55 chasis? If not, get yourself an SL65 and be done with it. You can get used one for $80K, minus the money you sell your C55 for, that will bring your cost down to about $60K. I have done the stuff you are trying to do except the turbo. I have rebult my block in my W210 e55, sleeved the cylinders and added low compression pistons and reduced compression ratio from 10.5:1 to 8.5:1. What I'm trying to say is that by the time you are done with what you are trying do do, you would have spent way more than $60K. Yes, I mean it. Don't listen to anyone that tells you won't. Sit down and get written estimates first. Otherwise you'll be in the middle of the oroject and cost will keep rising but you can't quit because you are already half way. Sit down and get in writting, the cost for a sleeving, low compression pistons, s/c, tunning, two turbos, installation, dyno, testing, tunini, hourly labor rate at $80 and hour..........the Sl65 will look cheap by comparison. Better yet, you can get a used CL65 for $55K and sell your C55 and your total cost for the CL65 will be less than $30K. I just think you are about to enter a money pit with what you are proposing.
..........Further, although Vadim knows a lot about cars, I think the idea of installing a Kleemanns s/c in a car with 11.5:1 compression and then adding turbos is not wise. I think Vrus first thought this up for a W211 E55 and in that case it made more sense, but not for your car. Are you dead set on a C55 chasis?
Ted
..........Further, although Vadim knows a lot about cars, I think the idea of installing a Kleemanns s/c in a car with 11.5:1 compression and then adding turbos is not wise. I think Vrus first thought this up for a W211 E55 and in that case it made more sense, but not for your car. Are you dead set on a C55 chasis?
Ted
Last edited by AMGSC; Feb 17, 2008 at 03:19 PM.
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Thanks Ted. I will get the quote/estimate tomorrow from Vadim and if it's guaranteed within 10% and not over $20K then I would consider it. Otherwise I am planning on just fixing the 1 cylinder, put the Kleemann SC on it and then sell it at the end of this year. The SL65 with an SLR kit does look sweet.
Is your Kleemann SC one of the older autorotor kits? If so, you're a lucky man. That was a great product.
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Thread Starter
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From: So Cal
2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
I am considering selling this kit along with everything else on my car when I'm ready to step up to the SL65.
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From: City with Tall buildings!
C43/55,2k11 Volvo S60 T6AWD,2k Audi B5 S4,95 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD 500+awhp
I've done several one off type modifications including twin charging. If you're looking to try something different, just to be different, go for it.
However, if you're looking for a true performance car at the track than there is absolutely no advantage to quad turbos or a twin larged large displacement engine. A twin turbo system is by far the best way to go and will woop any of these one off concepts at the track. Spool is not an issue on a 5.5L engine with a BB turbo.
The additional weight, complexitiy, and parasitic loss of these systems make them far less effecient and effective than a good twin turbo system.
Here's my predicition: The quad turbo project and the twin charged project will not work as expected, will be a tuning nightmare, will not be reliable, and will not be any faster than a well built twin turbo'd vehicle. All of this for only three times the price!
Been there, done that, good luck and I hope that you have VERY deep pockets and lots and lots of patience. I have first hand experience and can promise that you're making a mistake.
However, if you're looking for a true performance car at the track than there is absolutely no advantage to quad turbos or a twin larged large displacement engine. A twin turbo system is by far the best way to go and will woop any of these one off concepts at the track. Spool is not an issue on a 5.5L engine with a BB turbo.
The additional weight, complexitiy, and parasitic loss of these systems make them far less effecient and effective than a good twin turbo system.
Here's my predicition: The quad turbo project and the twin charged project will not work as expected, will be a tuning nightmare, will not be reliable, and will not be any faster than a well built twin turbo'd vehicle. All of this for only three times the price!
Been there, done that, good luck and I hope that you have VERY deep pockets and lots and lots of patience. I have first hand experience and can promise that you're making a mistake.
What's the point?
Is'nt it amazing how a car like the Supra,with smaller displ, and one huge turbo have been known to make 1000whp and run 7's at over 180mph in the 1/4 mile!!
You guys must like to spend $$ on thingy's!
2 turbs will keep things reliable ,less complicated and easy to tune! You gotta lot of displacement in 5.5 and 5.7 L's. Try 335 and 350 cubic inches fellas.
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From: City with Tall buildings!
C43/55,2k11 Volvo S60 T6AWD,2k Audi B5 S4,95 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD 500+awhp
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I searched all over for it. It was hard to find and this one had less than 5,000 miles on it. It includes the Airboxes, pumps, heat exchangers, etc.. This AutoRotor had the 4male x6female rotors vs. the 3x5 Lysholm/IHI blowers.
I am considering selling this kit along with everything else on my car when I'm ready to step up to the SL65.
I am considering selling this kit along with everything else on my car when I'm ready to step up to the SL65.
Upgrade the intercoolers ,turbochargers,get a good tune and your all set,done, finished,you have a beast as well.
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From: So Cal
2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
Deal or No Deal
I got a detailed quote: 12K for engine rebuild with forged pistons and ported heads yielding a 9:1 CR and 450+rwhp. Time frame is 30 days. For another 10K (with R&D discount), a single turbo that will yield 650rwhp+ and another 30 days in the shop.
Which is the better deal? or should I just pass. I only have $20K maxxx I can spend on either trading up or modding up or else I will be paying more than that in divorce settlements. At this point, I don't think I can get enough for my car and mods + 20K to step up to even a CL65. My only consideration are the 600 Bi-Turbo models. So either I wait and drive my car as-is for another 6months to 1 year or I try to negotiate a TWIN-turbo SC or QUAD-turbo for $20K all in, 60 days commitment to finish and a warranty for engine replacement. Some Auto magazine is interested in doing a story on this also.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I need to make a decision in a day or two max.
btw... I have a set of C55 stock wheels for sale at $1000 even. Flawless 18"s with Pirelli PZeros (Rears need to be replaced). Can ship without tires.
Also have a set of Brabus Monoblock S wheels for $150 each. Flawless 19"s
Which is the better deal? or should I just pass. I only have $20K maxxx I can spend on either trading up or modding up or else I will be paying more than that in divorce settlements. At this point, I don't think I can get enough for my car and mods + 20K to step up to even a CL65. My only consideration are the 600 Bi-Turbo models. So either I wait and drive my car as-is for another 6months to 1 year or I try to negotiate a TWIN-turbo SC or QUAD-turbo for $20K all in, 60 days commitment to finish and a warranty for engine replacement. Some Auto magazine is interested in doing a story on this also.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I need to make a decision in a day or two max.
btw... I have a set of C55 stock wheels for sale at $1000 even. Flawless 18"s with Pirelli PZeros (Rears need to be replaced). Can ship without tires.
Also have a set of Brabus Monoblock S wheels for $150 each. Flawless 19"s
Last edited by AMGSC; Feb 19, 2008 at 01:04 AM.
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From: Sin City
2005 E55 AMG - - 2005 SL55 AMG - - - - - - 2006 SLK55 AMG - - - - - - 2013 Ducati Diavel AMG -
I agree with c32used. Do the engine rebuild now and drive it for a while and enjoy it. You can always add more power later if you like. If not, just wait and drive your car as-is for another 6months to 1 year. No rush AMGSC, these mods are not going anywhere and neither will your wife. Heck, no telling what will be out in a year.
Last edited by Havoc; Feb 19, 2008 at 01:33 AM.
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From: Corona, CA
03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
i think you would be better off just trading in your car and getting a e55 or just selling your car and buy a used car thats already turboed or super charged. That way you just need to upgrade the turbo or supercharger.
i think spending $12k just to get extra 150hp is expensive. If this going to be your daily driver? I dont think 650whp would be a very streetable car. I think 450whp would be better for a daily driver.
I guess if your doing it for the fame, go with the $12k option.
i think spending $12k just to get extra 150hp is expensive. If this going to be your daily driver? I dont think 650whp would be a very streetable car. I think 450whp would be better for a daily driver.
I guess if your doing it for the fame, go with the $12k option.
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LET C32 2002
I agree with c32used. Do the engine rebuild now and drive it for a while and enjoy it. You can always add more power later if you like. If not, just wait and drive your car as-is for another 6months to 1 year. No rush AMGSC, these mods are not going anywhere and neither will your wife. Heck, no telling what will be out in a year.
That is one hot pic of your car Havoc....
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From: Sin City
2005 E55 AMG - - 2005 SL55 AMG - - - - - - 2006 SLK55 AMG - - - - - - 2013 Ducati Diavel AMG -
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From: So Cal
2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
I got the OK on the whole deal with Turbo and SC with rebuilt engine for $20K. Shall I pull the trigger for that price?
What I'm afraid of is the engine throws a rod and puts a hole in my block while I'm driving if I don't do anything. Is 30lbs/200lbs CR loss a sure sign of engine failure in the immediate future?
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LET C32 2002
Actually it's another 10K for ADDING a single turbo to blow into the Kleemann SC. Still it's an unknown that I don't think has been done before.
I got the OK on the whole deal with Turbo and SC with rebuilt engine for $20K. Shall I pull the trigger for that price?
What I'm afraid of is the engine throws a rod and puts a hole in my block while I'm driving if I don't do anything. Is 30lbs/200lbs CR loss a sure sign of engine failure in the immediate future?
I got the OK on the whole deal with Turbo and SC with rebuilt engine for $20K. Shall I pull the trigger for that price?
What I'm afraid of is the engine throws a rod and puts a hole in my block while I'm driving if I don't do anything. Is 30lbs/200lbs CR loss a sure sign of engine failure in the immediate future?
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I think you need to get in contact with a friend of mine who has it c55 tt'd and is pushing 700 on pump and 800 on race gas 
. Then you can sell me that SC!!
Honestly though, I would lower the compression and go TT as he as proven it's easier and worked out very well. Doing both seems rather silly. Plus tt has no parasitic drag and when properly boosted with the right units there is not much lag at all. You'd just really want different cams and make it more of a mid and top end monster and then don't go overboard with the turbos so they have good mid boost and will do fine with the top end-
. Then you can sell me that SC!! Honestly though, I would lower the compression and go TT as he as proven it's easier and worked out very well. Doing both seems rather silly. Plus tt has no parasitic drag and when properly boosted with the right units there is not much lag at all. You'd just really want different cams and make it more of a mid and top end monster and then don't go overboard with the turbos so they have good mid boost and will do fine with the top end-
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Mercedes Benz
Actually it's another 10K for ADDING a single turbo to blow into the Kleemann SC. Still it's an unknown that I don't think has been done before.
I got the OK on the whole deal with Turbo and SC with rebuilt engine for $20K. Shall I pull the trigger for that price?
What I'm afraid of is the engine throws a rod and puts a hole in my block while I'm driving if I don't do anything. Is 30lbs/200lbs CR loss a sure sign of engine failure in the immediate future?
I got the OK on the whole deal with Turbo and SC with rebuilt engine for $20K. Shall I pull the trigger for that price?
What I'm afraid of is the engine throws a rod and puts a hole in my block while I'm driving if I don't do anything. Is 30lbs/200lbs CR loss a sure sign of engine failure in the immediate future?
I say just get the CL65 at auction and enjoy that. This C55 will never run correctly. Its just to out there in design!
Good luck
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From: NY
2014 E350 4Matic
I agree with C32used, get your engine rebuilt (spec'd & strengthened) and call it a day. That way you will have a trully durable really fast, absolutely streetable C55 that you can enjoy until you get your next car. With all the mod's you've done and undone, it seems unlikely you could trade or sell your car for much until the engine is 100%. I'm at 409 hp now and want a new car (I do not think I can justify putting more $ into my car) and can't afford a new Benz (Dealer offered me a CLK63 convertible with the 030 package w/5k miles for $80 to $85k) at the moment, so I signed up for the AMG challenge and will take driving lessons -- should be more useful for me than a faster car.
Great saga and good luck whatever you choose to do!!!
Great saga and good luck whatever you choose to do!!!
Thread Starter
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From: So Cal
2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
Ted is exactly right.
You're about to begin a project that will become a money pit and have the inevitable "one off" quirks. A CL65 with Kleemann or Renntech ECU mods will not only be faster than a twin charged C55 but it will be much less expensive.
I tend to get very nervous when I hear about a new company creating a half a dozen one off projects. I'm concerned that we'll still be reading about these same "projects" 6 months to a year from now.
You're about to begin a project that will become a money pit and have the inevitable "one off" quirks. A CL65 with Kleemann or Renntech ECU mods will not only be faster than a twin charged C55 but it will be much less expensive.
I tend to get very nervous when I hear about a new company creating a half a dozen one off projects. I'm concerned that we'll still be reading about these same "projects" 6 months to a year from now.
Last edited by AMGSC; Feb 19, 2008 at 09:58 PM.
Thread Starter
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From: So Cal
2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
I think you need to get in contact with a friend of mine who has it c55 tt'd and is pushing 700 on pump and 800 on race gas . Then you can sell me that SC!!
Honestly though, I would lower the compression and go TT as he as proven it's easier and worked out very well. Doing both seems rather silly. Plus tt has no parasitic drag and when properly boosted with the right units there is not much lag at all. You'd just really want different cams and make it more of a mid and top end monster and then don't go overboard with the turbos so they have good mid boost and will do fine with the top end-
. Then you can sell me that SC!! Honestly though, I would lower the compression and go TT as he as proven it's easier and worked out very well. Doing both seems rather silly. Plus tt has no parasitic drag and when properly boosted with the right units there is not much lag at all. You'd just really want different cams and make it more of a mid and top end monster and then don't go overboard with the turbos so they have good mid boost and will do fine with the top end-
