TwentyValveB5

So, my girlfriend is getting a little tired of her Jetta (before you judge, I assure you this is *not* your run-of-the-mill Jetta, nor your run-of-the-mill girl)

Anyhow, the list of potential cars is down to a '04 B6 S4, '02 C32, or '05 S60R, with a B5 S4 bringing up the rear of the pack.

The B6 S4 is a little pricier, the Volvo's a little more uninspiring (but features AWD), so the C32 seems to be the front-runner.

'02 CLK55 and E55 are also possibilities, but they just too dated, IMO. The B5 S4 takes too much warranty-voiding work to get to the performance of a stock C32, so that's why it's at the back of the group.

Upon searching and reading your archives, it appears that your personal experience with them is relatively okay. IC pump problems, MB-typical electrical gremlins seem to headline the list. Seems pretty mild compared to the laundry list of usual problems associated with my B5 S4.

What kinds of electrical problems are we talking about? Her dad's got an ('04 I think) C320 sport that's had some issues with its headlights, where the car reports one is out when it's still functioning correctly.

We're looking for one that's got the balance of the 8yr/100k extended MBZ warranty left, as we've got friends in the local MBZ service dept (a tech and a service writer), but they won't bill out to 3rd party warranty companies.

So, am I missing anything here? In short, I should:
1) get a car with a warranty, or buy an extended warranty and take it to an independent shop
2) be wary of the IC pump and electrical system
3) hurry up and upgrade my turbos so my girlfriend in her C32 can't hunt me down on the track

If all goes well, you'll probably see more of me around here. I'm very active on AudiWorld and other 4-ringed forums.

AWDman

i'd buy a out of warranty car low miles as cheap as possible. it's prob going to an 02. get the tranny fluid analysed for glycol contamination before purchase. if it passes buy the car and immediately change radaitor and service tranny (fluid, fliter). then deal with any probs that arise as they (if they) surface. the tranny issue is the biggest potential hit to wallet.

volvo s60r is fwd, with drive trasmitted to rear wheels when fronts lose traction.

i'm sure others will chime in with different approaches to purchasing the c32.

chuckactor

I bought a used 02 C32 with 52k miles on it back in August. I figured since it was based on a C-class, it would be a nice tried and true platform. It has been the most fun, fasted car I have own. But.... it has also been by far the most unreliable car I have ever owned. Do not touch one w/o an extended warranty. My warranty goes out in another 2k miles. I doubt I will buy a new one as a full coverage warranty costs between $4k and 7K if you can find a place willing to get one. I doubt my warranty company will be writing C32 policies anymore. My car has been in the dealer once a month or so since I owned it. I have been fixing a few things that the previous owner didn't and I have also been nit picky since the warranty is expiring soon. Thing to remember is with an extended warranty, every repair is a crap shoot. You risk paying the huge Mercedes "diagnostic fee" if the warranty company doesn't pay. You also risk paying the loaner or rental fees as well. Plus every time the car is at the dealer it takes them a day or so to figure out what’s wrong, a day or so to debate with the warranty company on whether it’s covered, another few days to order the unobtainium AMG parts and by then its the weekend so the repairs start next week. So every time you loose the car for a week and a half. In my case at least. You also need to include the return visits because my dealer always breaks something else and I have to bring the car back again.

My care has a repair record that looks like a crack addict’s rap sheet. It was pages long when I bought it. Since I bought the car I had to do the following:

New instrument cluster (center part faded in the sun) - $1500
New thrust bearings - $500
Rear Antenna Amp = $800
Fuel gauge sender (required new tank) - $2000
2 seat heaters - ? In now
Left door IR sensor - ? In now

Previous records show, IC pumps, crank position sensors, air pumps, wiring harnesses, phone parts, lock mechanisms.....

I am fairly confident these repairs alone will exceed the $1 / mile driven in repair limit. Of course this doesn't include the new tires, alignment, pulley set, HE, splitter etc.....

So are they a fun car, hell yeah. Is it a reliable car... no way. Wanna a great deal on a used C32? I guarantee everything works...this week.

Chuck

5150_C32

I bought my 02 3 years ago with 3,000 on the clock and have not really had any problems (other than an emissions problem). Chuck seems to have gotten a bit of a lemon....dunno

I was in a similar boat as you, not buying for a GF or wife, but looking at the same cars (sort of...volvo???? WTF?) needing a four door.

Anyway, this car is a better car than the B6 S4 and more reliable. I am so glad I did not buy the S4 (too heavy, and slow compared to the C32 and can be in the shop a lot).

The C32 should have coilovers on it, because the handling sux (that is it's flaw...other than the tranny).

Anyway, if you get the C32, buy an aftermarket extended warranty like I did to be safe. $1700 and it paid for itself when the secondary air pump and 02 sesnsor went.

good luck

TwentyValveB5

Thanks for the impressions...

What warranty did you buy? The ones I've been looking into are in the $2500 range for 2 years/24k miles.

I still like the interior of the B6 S4 better (the seats are incredible), but the C32 is definitely the quicker car. I think the auto in the C is better than the tip in the S. Auto is a requirement for her at this point, though. Both need some help in the handling department, but so does every car in this segment. A set of sway bars are generally enough for street use with the S4. Coilovers really come in handy on the track

re: the Volvo. Don't sell it short. Good brakes, good power (turbo I-5, 300hp stock), fair interior, and decent MPG to boot. It's even available w/ a 6spd manual. Not a bad bang for the buck, but definitely no Audi or MB in the fit & finish department.

AWDman

9/01 in service- i purchased 9/03 @ 5000 miles......drove 4.5 yrs /73,000 miles and this is what has been required:-

thrust arm bushings (warranty repair)
some kinda air pump issue (warranty repair)
drivers side seat heater (warranty repair)

s/c bearing replaced $25 part, $60 labor
seat heaters failed (i'm not fixing)
alternator failed at 68000 miles summer 08. (i think the replacement was $200at pep boys). $70 labor.
seat control module out on passenger side (may not fix).
i have a noisy right rear shock right now will prob fix soon.

car is tight and rattle free. (save for the kmac camber bushings which thump a bit. they don't squeek like all the other folks who have tried them- this thanks to some extra viscious lube my tech applied).

5150_C32

<What warranty did you buy? >

MB did not have any warranty programs so I went through a Chrysler Dealership in SoCal that wrapped it under a Daimler Chrysler warranty program. I researched it on this forum and there were good reviews and not any real complaints. I can get you more info when I am at work tomorrow. I have not had a single issue and you can pick how many years/mileage you want to cover (different prices of course)

The S4 does have a better interior and sound system....clearly.

Sorry man, I have had an M3 and now a C32, call me spoiled, but Volvo is NOT in that league. No offense...

Slater126

Great car and I love mine but, yea, reliability can't be considered one of its strong suits. Since I bought my '02 with 29k on it in March 2007, I've had:

1. Thrust arm bushings and torque strut bearings replaced.

2. Front folding cup holder replaced (faulty).

3. One Xenon headlamp ignitor replaced.

4. Power window switch needed adjustment.

5. Step motor (interior air flap control) replaced.

6. Power steering gear and rack replaced.

7. Lower front seat heaters replaced.

8. Leaking and torn LH side thrust arm bushing replaced.

9. Strange gasoline odor inside car (diagnosis coming tomorrow -- I hope).

Fortunately, the car was a CPO and came with a 1-year warranty so all this stuff was free. If I had no warranty, I imagine I'd have spent at least $3-4k on these things. It's a very early build C32 (9/01) so maybe that has something to do with it? The car sure was never abused, and I don't beat on it at all. I admit I'm nervous about what's going to happen after the W expires in March. I'll have to balance the cost/benefit of extending it. I definitely wish I paid $2k more for another year when I bought it because now, it's surely going to be more. Live and learn I guess.

In short, unless you get an absolute steal, I'd pay a little extra and find one with a warranty. As I said, it really is a good car. Just wish it was a bit more reliable.

c32used

Over the year I been apart of this forum. I seen a new post with same question asked 3-4 times and incase you didn't know it doing a search can give you the most common issues that the C32 has...

Either way buy one with warranty cause in the over 1 year of ownership I took my car in for warranty work like 6 times and funny cause its in there now for warranty work......this last one is for seat control module(which seems everyone is getting hit by it alltogether) and the rear passenger seat belt which has become another common issue

If you need further assistance send me a PM and I will help further..

c32used

At the moment $2500 sounds good for a 2 year deal......But most of all why are you helping your GF to get a faster car then you...going on what your sig states with a stage 2+ you can do 13.18...in stock form I managed a 13.29...so saying that with a pully upgrade she will leave you behind.

t1n0

I had a few issues the first two weeks that happened so quick that I was worried, but nothing else has happened.

Driver's side headrest stopped working. (may not fix)
Driver's side heater stopped working. (may not fix)
Stereo stopped sounding. (replaced the amp, $275 on ebay but really hard to find, installed it myself. Tunes are back )
Brake pad wear warning came up this week, (but all brake wear down sooner or later)

Things I knew about when I bought it:
1) SOS warning is on, I have yet to figure out how to turn the bugger off.
2) Rear tires worn down. Picked up some Generals ("Generic" Continentals) for about $200 delivered from tirerack.com.

Everything else works great.

I heard from two people who purchased extended on german sedans that when it came time to pay up, the warranty company found ways to claim either 'normal wear and tear' or 'damage due to misuse' and other types of bull****. Both of them said not to bother with it, and to just maintain the cars, and expect costly repairs. Both people's attitude was basically to expect to pay, and set money aside for it.

TwentyValveB5

13.18 was at a DA of over 8,000 ft. (LA County Raceway)
The car will run 12.6, 12.7 at sea level. (as you can see by my 1/8 mile times/speeds)
My goal is 12.5 on stock turbos. Once I hit that, or they blow, then it's time for bigger and better snails... low-mid 11s will leave just about every C32 in my dust, right? ;-)
375+ awhp and a torque curve to die for on 91 ain't half bad... and that's on the smallest of turbo upgrades.

In the meantime, who cares if her car's as quick as mine? Doesn't make me enjoy my car any less.

I want something she can be competitive with on the track though... plus, I do drive her car from time to time

Slater126

Another good point. MB tried to skate out of my step motor repair -- an $800-1000 fix -- as normal wear and tear. I argued it and won, and they fixed it for free. In addition to having a warranty, know your warranty!

c32used

Very true! But she can do more also if she gets the mod bug thus giving you issues later...anyways you need an extended warranty or you could face some downtime...I have not had not even one issue with my extended warranty...

TwentyValveB5

It'd be awesome for her to have a 12 second car, but I doubt she'll touch anything under the hood, at least for a long time. Suspension, wheels, and brakes will likely be the first things to be addressed if she does anything.

Her VR6 Jetta's got full suspension (Koni + Vogtland), Neuspeed sway bars and strut bar, StopTech brakes, SSR GT7 w/ Michelin Pilot Sport PS2s, Euro OEM Recaros & HIDs, Milltek Exhaust, and GIAC flash. It's still only about 200 hp, but it's the handling and braking she appreciates the most.

Although, it's now starting to have some troubles (90k miles) and I think she's looking to leave her next car relatively stock, especially while still under warranty. Her drive to work now is also through some horrible roads, so she does want something a little softer (no offense).

I'm definitely looking for a car with the remainder of the 8yr/100k MB extended warranty so that I can get all the problem areas addressed at the dealer without any hassle

What extended warranty do you have? I have Western General on my S4, and they've been fairly good. I toasted an ECU due to an O2 sensor wire melting through on my aftermarket downpipes, so they didn't cover the ECU. Otherwise, they've paid out a ton... Control arms, washer pump, ABS controller and ESP pump, rear main seal, engine mounts, rearview mirror (leak)... and they're about to pay out a bunch for a new trans (1st and 2nd gear syncros are toast). And, if my turbos go in the next 4k miles, they'll be paying for new turbos too.

Anyhow, why does it matter if her car's as quick as mine at the strip?

TwentyValveB5

Thanks, that info on the DC warranty would be much appreciated.

Clearly the Volvo isn't in the same league as the M3/C32/S4, but for the same coin as an '02 C32, she can get a 2005 S60R with full factory warranty and low miles. It's not the first choice, but it does have its strong points. Plus, those turbo I5s respond pretty well to simple mods.

t1n0

How much coin are we talking? My '03 C32 with 60k was 21,600. it has the aforementioned issues, but mechanically sound.

I'm wondering about one of the posts above where someone said about testing the tranny fluid for glycol.

Do these cars have an issue with the cooling sysytem/tranny cooler? That's serious.

c32used

Its just a man thing thats all.....in the automotive spot we prefer to be tops...

c32used

Its called the Famous Tranny jerk at about 1500rpm from 1st to 2nd...its usually caused by the original Valeo radiator contaminating the tranny thats why they say perform a "glycol test" to see if there is any contamination whats so ever...some get the updated Valeo radiator or get the BEHR radiator to help minimize this effect...

This is probably the biggest sole reason to buy it with extended warranty. Even if you get a two year extended warranty the issue will eventually arrise or you maybe one of the fortunate ones

TwentyValveB5

Eh, doesn't matter much to me. She's the one who got me into Audis/euros in the first place. I was all domestic before that.

TwentyValveB5

Our friend @ the dealer said to look out for the same thing. Certainly a big deal, and definitely nice to have a warranty to cover it!

TwentyValveB5

I would jump on a deal like that all day long. '02s around here are going for at least that, with as much or more mileage, and no warranty. There are some in the $19,999 range, but they've got 75k+ miles.

edtv82

my 2002 has less than 75000miles and has an aftermarket warranty and she's up for grabs... at 20000$

TwentyValveB5

ahh, yes... sounds good, but you are quite a trip away from San Diego

demigod

Whatever you do make sure it has a warranty.. Parts are expensive on these cars. I just got an extended on mine for $3954 for 3yr/36,000 that was bought through the dealer. Good luck finding the right one for you.