amgstyle

wat's the difference between Schrick cams and kleemann cam's? does one gain more hp then the other? and are the prices about the same?? thanks

cnchung

AMG-Jerry is the best person to answer this question

FrankW

i don't think the cams will increase your HP if any, but rather move the HP to better usuable range in the rpm.

MRAMG1

Hey FrankW, if by the term better you mean HIGHER, I agree. However my question to you is WHY would you want to make your power band HIGHER when normal driving is 95% of the time BELOW 3000 rpm

I don't know, but for me, I'll keep my KILLER bottom end TQ and HP please.

Keep in mind ALL cams are a compromise, ie where do you want your power band, 2000-5000, 3000-6000, 4000-7000, etc, etc. For me, its the area under the graph that tells the TRUE story. My 91 Whipple stang, sorry guys a Ford, the stock, YES STOCK cam gave me the BEST power band for my application, which was ROAD RACING. Sure it gave up almost 60 HP at 6000 RPM, however I was already making over 500 HP. What I lost in the 2000-4000 range with a bigger cam was NOT worth it.

I took HP numbers at 2000, 2500, 3000, 3500, 4000, 4500, 5000, 5500, and 6000, divided it by 9 to give me an average, and the STOCK cam was good for approximaetly 30 MORE HP than ANY after market cam.

Oh well, sorry for the LONG post, but unless your REALLY into tracking, or spinning it WAY higher than STOCK. You REALLY ARE NOT going to make more USABLE HP.

See yeah

PS: Jerry is the MAN on this subject, so I will GLADLY defer to his wisdom on this issue

FrankW

yes, I did mean higher as stated on many schrick cams for different applications. as far as usuable I meant for track people.

i personaly don't think i need it as Touge doesn't get out of 3rd gear at all. If I do, I would probably crash and burn.

cnchung

If I am not mistaken, Schrick makes the cams for Kleemann and its identical.

MRAMG1

I'm with you my friend

See yeah

sales@eurocharged.com

You are correct!

c32AMG-DTM

I believe you may be right that Schrick makes Kleemann's cams for them (at least, I've heard that second-hand before as well) - although, I've heard that Kleemann has a proprietary grind that's used... which would mean they're not identical.

EDIT: Jerry confirmed what you said, I'll defer to you guys!

sales@eurocharged.com

I'm all for the cams...

I'm now making around 340whp @ 14.9 PSI. This LET Motorsports shop C32 is the most powerful 3.2L at any boost level....period.

DarkXerox

Eh, more than the 532rwhp Loaded E46?

TemjinX2

coming from cars that were high compression engines with upper end power bands. There are some advantages to moving the power band on upper level. The upper power band really shines on the track, thats why hondas seem torqueless for daily driving but really shine on the track.

Having a higher revving upper power band will allow you go into a turn or corner without having to shift in the next gear. Shifting into gear on the track slows you down. Once you do shift a redline, your still in your powerband after the shift.

Thats why for the hondas for example once you shift at redline and you go into the next gear you continue the car pull because most of the power is in the upper end.


But i agree with most, for daily driving the oem power band is best.

c32AMG-DTM

And that they typically have close-ratio gearboxes...

As for the cams, wouldn't there be some benefit for our cars, nudging the powerband upward? Don't S/C engines typically make tons of low-end torque, but run out of "breath" at high rpms? So by going to a hotter cam profile, you may lose a bit of the low-end, but that's where the S/C is helping the most anyway, but at the high-end, when the S/C needs help to make max power, you would have cams better suited to handle that, right?

My guess is that MB/AMG went with the existing cam profiles so the car would have pleasant low-end power and (perhaps most importantly) a smooth idle as befitting a luxury brand. YMMV but I think the youtube video of Jerry's car's idle sounds "purposeful"... and downright mean

Personally, I'd pursue it if money were no object, but I'm not sure I can justify the benefits against the $2,500 (cams + install) cost...

jgsx

I had cams in my c32 for a short while . . . made the car feel like a japanese import. Although I gained 13hp (cams+new ecu tune) up top, it just was not worth the trade off. The car idled like crap and really cheapened the feel of the car.

MRAMG1

Hey there jgsx:

Cams only gave you 13hp

That in itself would be greatly disapointing my friend. Thanks for the info, but sorry to hear it.

See yeah

jgsx

13hp between the cams and a custom Kleeman cam tune. It was a nice gain though throughout the midrange and high rpm. Not worth the sacrifices in my opinion.

MRAMG1

I hear you on that one my friend. Did you have a pulley, or anything else BTW. I'm just curious as I would have expected atleast 20 or more on the top.

See yeah

jgsx

I was full stage 2.

430

I have the Schrick cams. Nice solid idle, although with as low as my idle speed is set it is a bit lumpy.

The cams add a nice pull to the mid and upper range. The car just keeps pulling.

No dyno yet. I added the cams as part of a package and am still waiting on the final piece of the puzzle before I go back to the dyno.

I think the cams were a great addition to the car and in no way did they have any kind of negative impact.

jgsx

What about the poor idle? What do you say when you have a business partner in your car (a fellow Benz owner) and they point out that it feels like something's wrong with the car? Several of my friends also noticed the poor idle and asked if the car was about to die. What about when you're at a redlight and the car is bumping around from the idle? It REALLY cheapens the feel of the car. 13hp is a minimal gain for that. I wouldn't put them back in for 40hp.

$1500 (cams) + $500 (labor) + 1000 (ecu tune) = $3000. Not worth it financially either. I spent about $7k trying to get the cams to work properly.

cnchung

This clip should explain the car sounds with cams.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7hZg9FMPWY

To a further extend, Jerry has cams on his car and it does not sound like the car is serving to an end.

sales@eurocharged.com

Here is my car....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVh-z...eature=related

430

JGSX it really sucks you had problems with your cams. You and I exchanged posts prior to my purchasing of the cams and I almost did not get them based on the issues you had. I would be a very unhappy camper in your situation, no doubt about that. It also seems to be clear that there were issues with the cams you recieved. Maybe from the bad batch Jerry recieved.

The lumpy idle is a very easy matter to fix. In my car it is esp. pronounced because I have my idle set lower than stock ~500rpm. If you you are bothered by the lumpy idle all you have to do is raise the idle and it will smooth out. I believe RENNtech recommends 750 for the idle with the cams.

jgsx - your dyno was not on a dynojet if I remember correctly. So if you hit a dynojet that number would have been higher. Also if we go with the theory that the cams you recieved were bad then I think it is fairly safe to say that the cams were not producing the power they should have.

With my car the cams were "just dropped in". No fuss, no muss - but a bit of a mess with the oil.

jgsx

We tried raising the idle, it helped but it was still very noticeable. Yes, this was on a Dyno Dynamics, which gives lower numbers, and several ECU tunes from Kleeman. This would still be significantly less than 20hp even on a Dynojet.

I could have had bad cams. Schrick swears that they inspected them and they were a perfect set. Either the cams suck, or Schrick screwed me.

Both of the above videos show rough lumpy idles.


430 are you going to hit the dyno? I'd like to see a before/after dyno of JUST the cams

c32AMG-DTM

"Lumpy" yes, "rough" maybe, and this is where changing cam profiles is a VERY "personal-taste" type of mod - which most mods are, but this one perhaps more than most. To one, that (those) clip(s) may sound like a "rough, lumpy idle" and might certainly make a layperson inquire if something is wrong with the car. To someone else, the exact same clip(s) may sound like music to their ears, because it sounds like a mean, purposeful high-performance sports car... impatiently waiting to get up into the powerband

I'd hazard a guess that some passengers who heard a high-pitch S/C whine because of modded pullies might also wonder if something was "wrong" with the car - or hear a res-deleted C32 at WOT and ask "is something wrong with the exhaust?"

Frankly, this is what happens when trying to compromise between luxury and performance, which is something that every AMG model does, to one degree or another (special editions like CLK GTR are an exception, of course). To each his/her own, I suppose... which kinda goes with any and every mod.