NASCAR or Nasty Car as it's know to me is the last word I thought about hearing in a German car forum

Does anyone realize they still use carburetors and the car is all steel and more people die in them because the only thing that NASCAR is good at is making rules so 40 cars can run door to door for how ever many laps until some clown f's up and get out of the draft and send everyone bouncing of the walls which is another stupid thing running at almost 200mph 2" away from a cement wall I don't think NASCAR has ever heard of carbon fiber which correct me if i'm wrong is a hell of a lot stronger than steel. F1 car is almost all carbon fiber and revs to 20k rpm not 7k.

Hate to say it but NASCAR fans are not educated enough on what make a fast safe car period.

 

I agree that its interesting, BUT whats the point?? 20 HP for about $1,500 bucks?? Does't sound cost effective to me. Welcome to my world. The C32 is OH so easy to MOD and the ML 55 is an absolute bear as far as cost $$$ goes. A 40-50 HP tune from LET is much more cost effective than a CF driveline. Love the thought though Hooley, JUST dont think its that cost effective. Keep us posted if you get any more information about it??

 

You're just saying what everyone is thinking!!!

 

People pay that for a chip.Some even pay that for a airbox.

 

[QUOTE=C43AMG;2895275]People pay that for a chip.Some even pay that for a airbox.[/QUOTE]


Who pays that for a CHIP?? Or an airbox for that matter???? Not C32 people???

 

I'm all up for the CF driveshaft. I haven't done any performance mods at all yet... I figure why not try something different. But until they're available I'll just be watching this thread.

 

Who pays that for a CHIP?? Or an airbox for that matter???? Not C32 people???[/QUOTE]

Procede V2's cost that much for a 335i, but give way more haha.

 

[/QUOTE]Who pays that for a CHIP?? Or an airbox for that matter???? Not C32 people???[/QUOTE]

Newz, do you work for Renntech?

 

count me in too! I can't wait to see the outcome of this product. I have seen how good these CF DS actually work (BMW M3's). I think the C32 market will def be interested in this mod!!

 

I HIGHLY DOUBT you will get 5% driveline loss from driveshaft alone.

Realistically most front engine rear wheel drive automatic equipped cars get 20% for the good ones. Most front engine rear wheel drive stick cars are about 17%, Most mid/rear engine transaxle sticks are roughly 15%. Getting under 15% in a street car is NOT an easy task but it is possible, with a dog gear race tranny you might be able to squeeze out some more power but they will make your eardrums blow up haha.

MAYBE if you do crank pulley, carbon driveshaft, accessory pulleys, lightweight wheels & royal purple in engine & diff ... just MAYBE you might get down to the 15% mark (which would be remarkable, although unrealistic).

Thats not to say its not necessarily worth it. As far as HP/$ carbon shafts are one of the worst mods out there. However they do transform the WAY the car accelerates much like a lightweight crank pulley or ltw flywheel. They smoothen out the power band in ways no other modifications can. It transforms the overall feel and dynamics of your engine & your car in general.

THAT however doesn't ever really show up on a dyno, its very hard to demonstrate without actually feeling it first hand (anyone whose driven a car with LTW flywheel knows exactly what I'm talking about, they never show up on a dyno but they are damn fun to drive). The good thing is eventually the mods will pay themselves off in fuel efficiency (some longer than others).

I think if you did all those things mentioned above (crank pulley, accessory pulleys, carbon driveshaft, lightweight wheels & royal purple in engine & diff) the car will behave drastically better and the improvement will be amazing even though the numbers on paper on a dyno graph may not be. Don't be expecting anything like 50 HP from all those things, it just won't happen. With that said though I would rather do all those mods than just start slapping on superchargers & etc. To me modding for efficiency is the most rewarding of all (especially for an NA diehard like myself). Increasing ones HP/L is far more exciting and rewarding than just increasing ones HP through "easier" methods (SC, NOS, turbo, etc). To each his own I guess.

my 2 cents

 

YES:

NO one will EVER see the difference, other than they are POORER!

Gentlemen: I will bet ANYONE on this forum, that their 1/4 mile times will NOT change after they spend $1500 on this waste of time. YES it is more ifiecient, however the difference is NOT easily measured. WAKE up guys, if you have too much money, enjoy, but it will NEVER show you real world results, sorry to point out the obvious/realistic truth. BUT your are WASTING your money here. And I will BET ANYONE at a agreed upon dragstrip that it CAN NOT show a difference. One pass with, and one pass without. MY money is on the table and if you are in 300 mile of Pittsburgh, please take me up on this, as I will buy one IF I am wrong. Sorry guys but SAVE your money, you are chasing hundredths, when you can gain seconds with other improvements, IMHO

See yeah

 

Who pays that for a CHIP?? Or an airbox for that matter???[/QUOTE]

Go here : http://www.renntechmercedes.com/products.html

 

heh ... some people are done with most mods and this is all they got left! give them something to address their mod addiction!

 

Yeah, I hear you my friend. I just hate to see good people WASTE their money on things that DON'T help. I too am a mod junky, but have learned the hard way over the years, or should I say the expensive way. But alas, when the mod bug bites, it is a HARD addiction to over come

Good luck guys, just don't ever say I didn't warn you.

See yeah

 

While I certainly agree that a CF drive-shaft is lower on the ROI scale then many other mods, saying it is worthless is far from accurate.

I will gladly take you up on your offer, and if possible, let's extend the bet to multiple cars. I can test on BMW, Mercedes, Supra, RX7, Mustang....

I have had a CF shaft on my race car and street car (both e46 M3's). And there is a noticeable difference. My engineer and tuner also started using them on drag Supra's and RX7's (1000+ sub 10 second cars). Not only did the shaft help with performance, the added elasticity (which you will not get from alum) aids in keeping the drive-train from added damage. The shaft acts as a giant damper if you will.

Think of a shaft like a pulley set, lightweight flywheel, smaller diameter clutch, better diff, etc. None of these create power, but they all decrease the parasitic loss in the drive train.

So is a CF Shaft worth $1500+? Well that is a subjective question. It very well might be the only mod (or one of the only ones) left for many who have heavily modified cars. It also might be the mod that saves a $3000 diff. Again, the answer to value is in the eye of the beholder and it is not quite as black and white as you are attempting to make it.

Yes, you can call me biased as I might make a few dollars off of selling these, but oh well. While that is true, the last think that we at evosport do is sell parts that don't work. If that was our business, we would have a heck of a lot more worthless items on our site and in our catalog.

Also, at least I have owned and driven cars with a CF shaft so I have some first hand experience to talk about. Maybe you have as well, but you seem to be speaking in generalities, not specifics.

Thanks
Brad

 

Hey Brad:

Okay wothless might have been a little harsh here, as you are correct about the benifits to the shock of the drivetrain, etc, etc. However, in a mild street car, you WILL NOT see any real gains. I have raced in many different bodies, some used them, some didn't. BUT, the ones that did weighed in UNDER 1500 lbs. AS far as the supra mentioned, again, FULL BLOWN race car.

In a street car, you will NOT see any real world gains, and yes my friend, I would gladly extend it to other manufacturers, as the same PHYSICS apply to them as well.

Brad I truely understand your point, and can apprecieate it as well. However we are talking 3400+ lb cars here, with a TOTAL recipracting masses of the drivetrain in excess of 300 lbs. AKA crank, TC, axles, rims, diff, rods, cams, etc, etc, just to name a few. A 10 lb saving here just won't make any real world difference.

Oh well, sorry, it's the engineer in me and the holes in my wallet talking my friend.

See yeah

 

Thanks for the clarification. While we might disagree over the exact amount, it is nice to know that we can disagree respectfully and that helps the forum. I with more threads went this way!

thanks
brad

 

Back on track......

Ok, so I have official word that we are a tentative go. I have the CF manufacturer coming to inspect an e55 and the CLK63 BS next week. Doing a C32 and C63 should be no problem. The plan is for me to make those 4 parts: C32/C55, C63, E55/CLS55, CLK63/BS.

Pricing and ETA's will follow.

Thanks
Brad

 

So the drive shaft is the same for both the C55 AND C32? If so great, put me down for one.

 

make it for the SLK55 too!

 

No, not so much. However, the input and output should be the same, so the length is the only difference. So we should be able to offer both.

This should not be a problem. In fact, I think that we can do all of them.

Thanks
Brad

 

any updates?

 

The manufacturer is supposed to come over this week to inspect and start the process!

 

let me know when mine is ready for my 2005 c55amg please...thanks.

 

It's slightly off-topic, but has anyone considered what happens when a CF driveshaft reaches it's load limit or fatigue life end point? Maybe it's because I ride a CF mountain bike with CF handle bar and seat post, but I'm very aware of what happens when CF's time is up and how it reacts when it happens (if you've ever seen what a CF seatpost looks like when it snaps and where it can end up you'd understand )

Metals have different yield and ultimate limit points, they deform permanently before failure if they are overloaded. CF, while it can have higher yield strength limits, doesn't deform before it fails. While metal bends, CF shatters into all sorts of sharp pieces when it does go.

It also has more finite fatigue cycle limits, also giving no warning before failure.

In addition, CF also doesn't like being hit. While metal will show a dent, CF won't but it can still have damage that significantly reduces it's strength.

I've also got to question the power savings from something with the small diameter of a driveshaft. Hubs and flywheels have far higher rotational moments of inertia. The more weight the further out from the centerline you can reduce reduces the amount of power required to change their speed. But a driveshaft has a pretty insignificant diameter and weight when you're looking at everything else in the drivetrain. And once the speed doesn't change it doesn't much matter anyway.