carbon fiber Driveshaft
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,193
Likes: 3
From: Glendale Arizona
C55,SL55,C63
carbon fiber Driveshaft
Has anyone ever thought about getting a C/F driveshaft. i hear you can free up around 5% more of your engines power. I'm not sure what a stock Driveshaft weights but on driveshaft builder claims a C/F drive shaft with Ujoints and yoke is only 12lbs. People seem to be into the light weight pullies so why not driveshafts? One site sells them for prices ranging from 500-1400. Im sure they would have to be custom built. If you could get this for a fair price this may not be a bad mod. anyway here is the site i was looking at
http://www.pstds.com/critical_link_drive_shafts.htm
http://www.pstds.com/critical_link_drive_shafts.htm
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,193
Likes: 3
From: Glendale Arizona
C55,SL55,C63
I'm going to go to a driveline place and get my car mesuered and pass that on to a company that makes C/F drivelines just to see what kind of price it would be. My only worry would be if a rock comes up and smashes the driveline= not good. question I have is do you get 5% HP back from say the 20% you lost?
Last edited by hooleyboy; Jun 10, 2008 at 05:24 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,513
Likes: 0
C32 AMG
It MIGHT have the same effect as a lightened flywheel, letting the engine rev quicker; but it will not add any HP. HP doesn't get lost through a drive shaft; but it does get absorbed during acceleration by inertia. Less weight = less inertia.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 18,677
Likes: 9
From: OC
a quarter mile at a time
lol - you know what he meant.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 358
Likes: 1
From: Snellville, GA
'03 C32, '08 ML63
Here's a nice write up somebody did on a carbon fiber vs. steel driveshaft on a mustang.
http://www.stangpro.com/html/articles/driveshaft.htm
That's the kind of thing I like to see. Complete with before and after dyno. Surprisingly he did pick up some HP and Torque.
-Rich
http://www.stangpro.com/html/articles/driveshaft.htm
That's the kind of thing I like to see. Complete with before and after dyno. Surprisingly he did pick up some HP and Torque.
-Rich
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 695
Likes: 0
From: Delran, NJ
05 C55
if the stocker is steel, im sure there would be a big difference. being an AMG, it is most likely aluminum already. im not sure that you would notice a big difference from alum to cf. dont worry about a rock hitting it, that wont hurt it. back in the 5.0 days, one of the first driveline mods was to ditch the steel shaft and get the Motorsport aluminum piece. the aluminum piece would rev quicker and hum less, but i couldnt quote e.t. reduction, its just been too long ago...lol
stocker is steel, my "fear no beer" magnet sticks. usually aluminum shafts are a bit larger in diameter. the trans tunnel is tight, it might be a difficult fit.
stocker is steel, my "fear no beer" magnet sticks. usually aluminum shafts are a bit larger in diameter. the trans tunnel is tight, it might be a difficult fit.
Last edited by mkonei; Jun 10, 2008 at 06:09 PM.
Trending Topics
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,949
Likes: 0
From: Philadelphia, PA
2008 A8L, 2002 996TT X50, 2009 X5
I'm going to go to a driveline place and get my car mesuered and pass that on to a company that makes C/F drivelines just to see what kind of price it would be. My only worry would be if a rock comes up and smashes the driveline= not good. question I have is do you get 5% HP back from say the 20% you lost?
Stock driveline, 420 bhp, driveline losses equivalent to 19%, 420 * .81 = 340 rwhp
Modified driveline, 420 bhp, driveline losses 25% better than stock (19% * .75 = 14.25%), 420 * .8575 = 360 rwhp
In conclusion, if you could cut driveline losses from 19% to 14.25%, you could gain 20 rwhp. Hope that helps
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
7 Craziest Things AMG Gas Ever Built
Verdad Gallardo
New Electric Mercedes-AMG GT 4-Door Coupe Unveiled: 10 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
6 Mercedes Models That Did NOT Age Well (But Are Somehow Still Cool)
Verdad Gallardo
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,193
Likes: 3
From: Glendale Arizona
C55,SL55,C63
That IS the question... isn't it? I guess we wouldn't know until someone did it, dyno'd it, and reported back with the results. In theory, if you improve your driveline efficiency substantially (say, 25%) you would reduce the lost hp and tq from crank to wheels by a similar percentage. For example:
Stock driveline, 420 bhp, driveline losses equivalent to 19%, 420 * .81 = 340 rwhp
Modified driveline, 420 bhp, driveline losses 25% better than stock (19% * .75 = 14.25%), 420 * .8575 = 360 rwhp
In conclusion, if you could cut driveline losses from 19% to 14.25%, you could gain 20 rwhp. Hope that helps
Stock driveline, 420 bhp, driveline losses equivalent to 19%, 420 * .81 = 340 rwhp
Modified driveline, 420 bhp, driveline losses 25% better than stock (19% * .75 = 14.25%), 420 * .8575 = 360 rwhp
In conclusion, if you could cut driveline losses from 19% to 14.25%, you could gain 20 rwhp. Hope that helps
Were I'm at I'm just about out of bolt-on mods (that gain HP) that i can do other than a supercharger. It would be nice to cheat the system and steel back some of the power the car is taking away. i think I'm talking myself into my next mod. it if even can be done.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,021
Likes: 3
From: Fort Worth, TX
2011 GL550, 2004 Audi S4 v8
Carbon fiber for a driveshaft is bad! The driveshaft spins VERY fast. The more TQ a car has the faster it will spin....
Think about it...if NASCAR still uses steel driveshafts than this is the best to use. The only other safe material for a driveshaft is aluminum.
A Carbon Fiber driveshaft may be ok for normal use on a small car like mine, but not on a high performance Benz...
If you don't believe me try it, I bet it won't last 6 months unless you drive around like a grandma.
I took a class at NASCAR Tech about drivelines and transmissions, and seen pictures and heard stories about the CF shafts.
Like I said before, Aluminum is what you want.
Think about it...if NASCAR still uses steel driveshafts than this is the best to use. The only other safe material for a driveshaft is aluminum.
A Carbon Fiber driveshaft may be ok for normal use on a small car like mine, but not on a high performance Benz...
If you don't believe me try it, I bet it won't last 6 months unless you drive around like a grandma.
I took a class at NASCAR Tech about drivelines and transmissions, and seen pictures and heard stories about the CF shafts.
Like I said before, Aluminum is what you want.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 358
Likes: 1
From: Snellville, GA
'03 C32, '08 ML63
Carbon fiber for a driveshaft is bad! The driveshaft spins VERY fast. The more TQ a car has the faster it will spin....
Think about it...if NASCAR still uses steel driveshafts than this is the best to use. The only other safe material for a driveshaft is aluminum.
A Carbon Fiber driveshaft may be ok for normal use on a small car like mine, but not on a high performance Benz...
If you don't believe me try it, I bet it won't last 6 months unless you drive around like a grandma.
I took a class at NASCAR Tech about drivelines and transmissions, and seen pictures and heard stories about the CF shafts.
Like I said before, Aluminum is what you want.
Think about it...if NASCAR still uses steel driveshafts than this is the best to use. The only other safe material for a driveshaft is aluminum.
A Carbon Fiber driveshaft may be ok for normal use on a small car like mine, but not on a high performance Benz...
If you don't believe me try it, I bet it won't last 6 months unless you drive around like a grandma.
I took a class at NASCAR Tech about drivelines and transmissions, and seen pictures and heard stories about the CF shafts.
Like I said before, Aluminum is what you want.
As an example you can look at flywheel based UPS systems. The flywheels, which are carbon fiber, will spin in excess of 20,000rpm's. I can assure you that is far faster than our little driveshaft will ever see. The primary reason that companies go with a carbon fiber flywheel on these UPS's is because of safety. If they explode it just turns into a fiber mess. And don't forget the reliability these things must have. I've seen them installed in hospitals before where power interruption is absolutely unacceptable. Life expectancy on them is 20+ years at that constant speed.
Last edited by Biscuit; Jun 10, 2008 at 06:34 PM.
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 695
Likes: 0
From: Delran, NJ
05 C55
theres nothing wrong with carbon fiber shafts, theyve been around for a long time. they are actually safer than a steel shaft, because they simply disintegrate instead of sending you for a pole vault ride if your front joint lets go. go look under a pro stock car, they leave at 8000+...
Carbon fiber for a driveshaft is bad! The driveshaft spins VERY fast. The more TQ a car has the faster it will spin....
Think about it...if NASCAR still uses steel driveshafts than this is the best to use. The only other safe material for a driveshaft is aluminum.
A Carbon Fiber driveshaft may be ok for normal use on a small car like mine, but not on a high performance Benz...
If you don't believe me try it, I bet it won't last 6 months unless you drive around like a grandma.
I took a class at NASCAR Tech about drivelines and transmissions, and seen pictures and heard stories about the CF shafts.
Like I said before, Aluminum is what you want.
Think about it...if NASCAR still uses steel driveshafts than this is the best to use. The only other safe material for a driveshaft is aluminum.
A Carbon Fiber driveshaft may be ok for normal use on a small car like mine, but not on a high performance Benz...
If you don't believe me try it, I bet it won't last 6 months unless you drive around like a grandma.
I took a class at NASCAR Tech about drivelines and transmissions, and seen pictures and heard stories about the CF shafts.
Like I said before, Aluminum is what you want.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 358
Likes: 1
From: Snellville, GA
'03 C32, '08 ML63
Hey, if you don't believe me...try it!
My main point on that was just that you shouldn't use NASCAR as a baseline for your decisions. If I'm not mistaken they're still using carb's instead of fuel injection.
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 828
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta, GA
SLK32
Carbon fiber for a driveshaft is bad! The driveshaft spins VERY fast. The more TQ a car has the faster it will spin....
Think about it...if NASCAR still uses steel driveshafts than this is the best to use. The only other safe material for a driveshaft is aluminum.
A Carbon Fiber driveshaft may be ok for normal use on a small car like mine, but not on a high performance Benz...
If you don't believe me try it, I bet it won't last 6 months unless you drive around like a grandma.
I took a class at NASCAR Tech about drivelines and transmissions, and seen pictures and heard stories about the CF shafts.
Like I said before, Aluminum is what you want.
Think about it...if NASCAR still uses steel driveshafts than this is the best to use. The only other safe material for a driveshaft is aluminum.
A Carbon Fiber driveshaft may be ok for normal use on a small car like mine, but not on a high performance Benz...
If you don't believe me try it, I bet it won't last 6 months unless you drive around like a grandma.
I took a class at NASCAR Tech about drivelines and transmissions, and seen pictures and heard stories about the CF shafts.
Like I said before, Aluminum is what you want.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,193
Likes: 3
From: Glendale Arizona
C55,SL55,C63
BTW Evosport sells carbon fiber drive shafts for BMW. ACPT.com will build you a custom C/F drive shaft for $1500 and the guy i spoke with said it could be less depending on how it hooks up to the trans and rear end
I like to think of it this way... With insanely over priced mods for out cars Most other C/F drive-shafts cost around 1k. this seems like a good deal for what you get. I mean you get a lighter drive-line that takes less power to spin than a heavier one and its safer. if our drive shafts were ever to brake it would cause a catastrophic disaster to your car causing damage to many parts. As said before ^^^ If the C/F drive shaft was to fail it would just turn to "dust" causing much less damage to your car and to you. We all know the more something weighs the harder it is to move. I think it all kinda goes along with light weight pulleys and flywheels, maybe even wheels too. we all know the lighter the wheel is the easier it is for the car to move them. I would think with a lighter drive shaft less energy would be absorbed in trying to spin it. then that savings would be passed down though the drive system and onto the wheels... were it counts. Just my take on it I could be wrong IDK.
I like to think of it this way... With insanely over priced mods for out cars Most other C/F drive-shafts cost around 1k. this seems like a good deal for what you get. I mean you get a lighter drive-line that takes less power to spin than a heavier one and its safer. if our drive shafts were ever to brake it would cause a catastrophic disaster to your car causing damage to many parts. As said before ^^^ If the C/F drive shaft was to fail it would just turn to "dust" causing much less damage to your car and to you. We all know the more something weighs the harder it is to move. I think it all kinda goes along with light weight pulleys and flywheels, maybe even wheels too. we all know the lighter the wheel is the easier it is for the car to move them. I would think with a lighter drive shaft less energy would be absorbed in trying to spin it. then that savings would be passed down though the drive system and onto the wheels... were it counts. Just my take on it I could be wrong IDK.
Last edited by hooleyboy; Jun 10, 2008 at 07:51 PM.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,193
Likes: 3
From: Glendale Arizona
C55,SL55,C63
Yes they do. and thats why dyno testing on them yeild much less drive-line loss than expected. One article i read on the new GTR said the drive-line loss was much less than what was expected out of an AWD car. there take on it was that the car was just underrated when it came to crank HP. My take on it is its just not losing as much power to the wheels. could be C/F drive-shafts at work and remember that's a 4000lbs car. I think the GRT yeilds a 14% loss at the wheels and thats very good for an AWD car.
Super Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 636
Likes: 0
From: Oakland, California
07 E550, 02 C32, 91 300E
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,193
Likes: 3
From: Glendale Arizona
C55,SL55,C63
That would be nice. I spoke with a drive shaft company in Cali that does C/F driveshafts and was told its all about geting them a drive shaft in there hands so they can see how it hooks up and what would be needed to make the Drive shafts. Maybe one of the Spencer's will step up and do some leg work for us as there seems to be in interest in a product that can be easily made. I would bet if say LET, VRP, or Evosport came out with a line of C/F drive shafts for Mercedes people would ****** them up. I really have no knowledge of the names of the parts of a drive shaft so i wouldn't be the best at lining this up. However i would be willing to though some loot to a person who did do the leg work to make it happen.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,193
Likes: 3
From: Glendale Arizona
C55,SL55,C63
Banned
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 426
Likes: 1
1996 C36 AMG
the results from lightweight flywheels and lightweight crank pulley is typically more than ltw driveshaft b/c radius plays a much greater impact than weight b/c Inertia = mass x radius^2, so its the radius that is more crucial than weight itself. With that said it still plays a factor, Carbon driveshafts can handle tons of power and supposedly they greatly reduce the amount of vibrations/harmonics felt through the chassis that most people don't even realize are b/c of the driveshaft. In addition its much safer than aluminum driveshafts (which can be downright dangerous b/c they are more prone to snapping and turning into a polevault). CF shafts simply turn back to fiber when they snap and do not hurt anything. That said... its pricey.. and not many people do it. But if you have the cash and you like to tune for efficiency as well as power, its a great way to go.
