ScottW911

JT, he's done this before. That is why I said I just tune him out.

Just ignore the troll. He'll crawl back into his cave for a while again.

slowrey

I'm actually a CIA Spook and have to sell the car as I was identified while in it and I need to go into hiding with the witness protection program.

Mercedes lose their value MUCH faster than a Porsche. If I'm going to have a occassional driver in the garage I'd rather have one that doesn't depreciate as quickly.

OPM I'm done with you kiddo, grow up and figure your own life out instead of trying to figure everyone's "motive".

Saprissa

and that's why i drive a smart car !

slowrey

Okay I've posted the car in the classifieds.

crazeazn

half of the amg threads are call outs on BS... what a riot. hope the sale goes through for ya from a fellow texan.

viper501

Slowrey,

Good luck with your sale. Although I'd be one to caution against the transition to the P-car unless you are going TT or GT 2 or 3. BTDT, got the $$$$ engine replacement bill to prove it. I find my 55 to be far more enjoyable to drive 99.5 % of the time than my 911. Take your time in selecting one and you'll have a good time as long as you don't drive too often or too far. Otherwise, I'd stick with the 55.

1qikctr

Agree with the too often and too far trips with the P car. the N/A v8 is far better on long trips and hot days.

slowrey

Out of curiousity why do you say this? I've been a member on 6speedonline for quite some time and engine replacements aren't that common.

1qikctr

CLose friend of my owns GT3, his been thr 2 motors! NO he doesnt even go to the track he drives a Gt3 Now the thing just sits in garage and he drives his E klass.

viper501

There are far far too many 996's (and lets not even discuss the disaster that is the Boxster ) that have nuked their engines for a variety of non-owner related reasons. In my case, I am fairly sure that the exhaust valve spring on the #1 cylinder broke while cruising on the interstate (within the speed limit). Unfortunately, the cost of removing and replacing and tearing down the engine to specifically diagnose it puts you very close to the cost of a reman'd engine from Porsche. So do you spend 10k for a new motor with a two year warranty or do you spend 6-8k rebuilding the top end (assuming that is all that is really wrong) with no warranty and no idea how long the bottom end is going to take a fresh top end. Add to that the problems with the second gear synchros and the increasingly frequent reports of dead transaxles and buying a non-TT / GT car is a big gamble. The frustration of dealing with a slew of oil leaks (while normally not fatal, certainly annoying for that much $$$$) as well as a flawed intermediate shaft design makes buying one a scary proposition if you actually intend to drive it rather than make it a garage queen.

And things are no better in the 997 world from what I have gathered.

The only 'safe' ones are the GT and TT cars as they use the old style block and bearing design with a watercooled head. Far far stronger and more robust than the standard 996/7 engine. In fact, I've heard of very very few failures of them except for cars that were seriously abused/misdriven. Buddy of mine leased one and tracked it *all* the time with no problems whatsoever. He'd happily hand you the keys and tell you to run it on the track. Again, not a single mechanical problem.

Slowrey, go over to renntech.org for a visit and do a search on 996 / 997 / 986 / 987 engine failures. It is ugly. That is the reason that the resale on them is so incredibly bad, esp. the 996. You can buy an almost new 996 for half what you can buy a ten year old 993. Don't get me wrong, it was a joy to drive but I never could trust that car again.

slowrey

Well OPM I hope you're happy by sending bad Karma but last Friday, I got laid off of a corporate job that I've had for 10 years.

Thanks for the Karma guy... Car is still for sale though.

moosejaw

I'm sorry to hear that.
What industry are you in?

I am in construction, I worry about losing my job eveeryday with a portion of our projects funded by the belly up banks.

zoink

Sorry to hear that... and certainly good luck with your sale...

I just can't believe why people can't look at the car objectively and do their homework (check carfax, VMI, etc.) regardless the reasoning sellers give out... there's always a risk buying a used car. If you don't like the risk, buy a new car.

For OPM, listen to this re: my bimmer purchase...
The seller just owned the car for ~2 weeks (< 500 miles)... asking price was $11-12K below MSRP. Seller said he didn't like the car... and I knew that he was trying to sell it for 1 week already (I found it in eBay) w/ pics from dealers' lot.

I asked bunch of questions to the seller... while the general story he told was quite consistent, the timing was not (e.g. I realized I didn't like the car right when I drove off of the lot vs. I realized I didn't like the car after a week owning the car)...

So tell me your analysis... I'm sure you would think:
- The car may have been wrecked
- The car may be lemon
- The car was stolen (no title yet at time of transaction)
- etc. etc. etc.

And in the end... you may pass the deal (even though to me it was a killer deal).

Me... I inspected the car - just like any used car - no indication of wreck... went to my local BMW dealer and got VMI, nothing out of ordinary (just initial purchase inspection).... so I took the deal and so far have been happy even though I still don't like the seat and the iDrive (slow).

So.... don't over analyze things and stay objective and do your homework... who cares what the real motivation behind the sale is.

OPM

Sean, I am very sorry to hear that. I certainly did not wish that for you or anyone else. I hope you find a new job soon. Maybe it will be even better than your old job. Do not take this a wrong way, but now your story makes more sense. I have a feeling the company/industry you used to work for is under pressure from current economic conditions. Subconsciously you knew that and felt the need to downsize for few years before buying your dream car. Anyway, best of luck with the job search.

cdd

Sorry about the job loss. Tough market right now...

You still have the paddles? If so, what finish are they?

fivepointfivev8

this was a damn good read.

slowrey

Well guys I worked for FedEx managing Information Technology as a Technical Project Manager with 70 locations for 10 years. Funny thing is that being with the corporate side, I've always worried about losing my job as our company has had 4-5 Reductions in Force where I've had to reapply for my job and luckily I kept this long.

Unfortunately, they severed all of our positions in the country and the 40 of us managed 1400 locations around the world. Oh well, I'm on to get my PMP certification for the next two months and move on.

As for OPM, the sale of the car before my job loss was because I didn't want to have a higher than $700 payment on a car. Thus if I could sell my C55 and put the $700 in a savings account for a year or so I would be able to put about 15K down for a downpayment and still buy a C2S with a $700 payment.
Anyway, no biggie, I'm still getting paid for 7 months so I feel fortunate.

Also OPM my story made sense before, the plan was at stated above even with the job intact. Haven't you heard of people selling their nice house, moving into an apartment to save a bit of money and then buying their dream house? Same thing just replace house with car.

Lastly, I don't know many business sector of the country who aren't feeling issues with the economy. Even hookers have seen a slowdown.

Paddles are piano black, I bought them a long time ago, VRP never shipped them and when I went to cancel them they stated that they couldn't refund me money since they were custom. Kinda crazy they couldn't give me back my money even though I didn't have the items and I paid them 6 months prior.

VaderSS

Slowrey… Sorry for your job situation! Hope you get a better one soon!


Boy am I glad I did not post on this forum when I sold my C55!!!!


viper501… I don’t know why you give the 986, 996 and 997 so much beef? I feel for your situation of your car blowing up & Yes, I will agree that they have replaced motors… but mostly RMS leaks and not for blowing up, in which the people I know got it all under warranty with a loaner car.
How old was your car? I would have stomped up and down to get it covered under warranty!

So no disrespect but my Porsche’s have been pretty bullet proof… heck look at any enduro race and see how many other brands are blowing up the motors.

Well at least for me my car which goes to track events, has only needed routine maintenance with 39k miles (call me the lucky one?1?)… But wait if the 996/997 were P.O.S.’s wouldn’t Porsche be out of business? They don’t sell that many cayenne’s or.... what's the other little one they make? (Joking...)

Newzchspy

Paddles are piano black, I bought them a long time ago, VRP never shipped them and when I went to cancel them they stated that they couldn't refund me money since they were custom. Kinda crazy they couldn't give me back my money even though I didn't have the items and I paid them 6 months prior.


What price did you finally settle on for the car??? Its a shame, its a very very nice car.

viper501

There are a *lot* of motors that have been replaced for a variety of reasons. The M96 engine sucks. Period. End of story. It is them selling their reputation for exorbinant profits. The same thing that almost every luxury brand has been doing in the past ten years from jewelry (Tiffanys) to cars, they're cheapening the product and riding the crest of their reputation.

The M96 engine has several design deficiencies, some of which were corrected over the years but the most critical are inate to the design. Porsche wanted, and got, an engine that is far cheaper to produce than the previous 993 powerplants. It was designed with a price point in mind for the introduction of the 986. They needed a much cheaper to produce powerplant to ensure the success of the poor man's Porsche, something that they have repeatedly attempted ( 914 and 924 ring a bell?), with little real success. They used the 986 crowd as an experimental group while they continued to build the 993 engines. Again, burning their reputation for gross profits.

There are numerous well-documented reports / incidents of block porosity, slipped cylinder sleeves, and other design and production flaws in the 986 series. They started resolving some of those issues, but not all, with the introduction of the larger displacment M96 engines used in the 996. But what remained, even to this day, is the inherently weak design of the block. There is absolutely no reason for the crank and bearing design of the m96 engine other than that it is easier and cheaper to produce. It is certainly not as strong as the GT/TT cars who use the old block design from the 993s. And lets not get started on the intermediate shaft failures (IMS). That is again a design defect that Porsche knows about and has altered on later production cars but that still exists in the M96 series.

And your qoute about the race cars ( I think you say enduros ) is just my point. The Porsche race cars do not utilize the M96 engine. They are using the GT/TT engines that are water cooled versions of the proven 993 powerplant. (Which is why the 993 cars are kicking 996 *** on resale).

And no, I don't hate Porsche. I hate that they are cheapening the cars for the sake of gross profit (after all they had the highest profit percentage of any car company last year according to media reports) and producing a vastly inferior car and marketing it as one of the true breed, which it is absolutely not. (Oh, and from what I gather the Cayenne / Tourag(sp?) crowd is none too pleased either)

My car was well out of warranty so I had no legal claim against Porsche for the engine failure. And the local dealer was far from stellar in their service, or lack thereof. They had the audacity to try to charge me 18k for the engine replacement after an out-of-state dealer, where the engine failed, qouted me 10k. Needless to say, it was a less than pleasant conversation with the local dealer when I told them what I thought of their behavior.

So, good luck with your car. I hope it holds together. Given the vast majority of 996s and 997s rarely see rain much less any real miles I suspect that you will be just fine. But, if anyone asks me about my experience, I'm going to give them a very honest review of my experience and tell them, repeatedly and forcefully, that if they want a 911 get a GT/TT engined car and nothing else.

*rant over*

VaderSS

viper501
Relax man I was not trying to argue. However in my quote I stated, ..” in which the people I know…” I was not carrying the flag for Porsche’s sake. Also, anyone who has owned a Porsche 911 would say the last best was the air cooled 993… Heck I had a 1996 993 C4S and beat the **** out of that thing too!

Yes, I did say ‘enduro’ endurance racing however, I did not indicate anything other that the Porsche mark and not the 996/997 motor.

I feel for your bad experience with your Porsche. As far as you hoping my car ‘holds together’, thanks... I guess. Hey, my car does see the rain and has 39k on it….

Maybe the others should do what I do & drive the **** out of it before the warranty runs out then get something else!

viper501

Vader, no problems. I really do hope that your car, and everyone else's, stays together. But, 39k on a five model year old car is pretty low miles relative to the rest of the world. I still loved my 911's handling and braking, and the running engine, just hate that they cheaped out on the non-TT/GT engines (which is the same way with the 997 which is still using the m96 motor).

*threadjack off*

Slowrey, good luck with the sale. If you get in a pickle, I understand Carmax is pretty decent for quick sale situations. I know someone who would be all over it if he wasn't carrying two mortgages right now ... damn housing market....

slowrey

Well I'm going to hold out til I get the right buyer. I haven't sold it but I don't feel like CarMaxing it right now. We'll see what happens... Viper if your friends situatioin changes holler at me.

viper501

Will do. Unfortunately, with the current housing market it ain't lookin' good for him. Major glut of coastal property right now. The one good thing is that his company may buy him out at some point...