Hiding problems doesnt make them go away. If all it takes is "talk" to bring a business down, that business probably shouldnt be in business.

 

I do not want to get involved in this thread as it does not pertain to AMS or its products nor to I want to hijack it as it is LETs thread, but since Gramma Benz brought us up I think its only fair I put in my input.

Part of running a business is being able to stand by ones products even when they are NOT at fault as was the case with the specific incident. Hooleyboy was one of our first customers and one of our most loyal patrons and we felt obligated to stand by our customers even when it was not our fault at all simply in order to appease him both for public reputation but also because it is the right thing to do. Even though our product was not responsible, our product was still "involved" with the incident and therefore we chose to "bite the bullet" so to speak and replace the unit anyways and having done so we pretty much have Mike as a customer for life and to us that is far more valuable than a few hundred dollars.

Loyalty does go a long way, and customer service can make or break a customer for life. The general 80/20 (or sometimes 90/10) rule in business states that 80-90% of revenue will always come from 10-20% of your customer base so its important to retain our customers by keeping them happy b/c it saves alot of time & money in the long run.

NOW.... in defense of LET... I can understand their frustration as I have learned better than any vender on this forum that there are alot of independent Mercedes shops out there that are "certified" or etc but honestly are complete idiots. You'd be surprise how some "experts" can make such a ridiculously easy install as a crank pulley go awry due to sheer stupidity and arrogance (thinking they know how to install it properly without specifically following directions or etc). That is why we recommend using authorized MB dealers as install centers b/c in the long run you almost always save more money in the long run by doing it right than trying to save a few bucks by going to a less qualified shop (You'd be surprised how willing MB dealers are to install mods, and if you are really close with your service rep they won't even bother you about warranty).

With that said, many of the issues that are now beginning to arise were apart of the "old" LET (erick) and not the "new" LET, so its important not to blame the new LET which is essentially just ECU tuning and pumps, not pulleys/headers & etc, its a different operation now (although the same name makes that confusing at times).

With regards to paying for damages or repairs.... Even the BIGGEST Benz tuners will always find a way to dodge that, they have teams of lawyers to draft up the right language to ensure that they cannot be held liable and in fact most big name tuners will basically make the customer take the hit and they couldn't care less b/c they are such a big operation it is of no benefit for them to go out of their way for the little guy. So to expect LET to pay for all damages is a bit extreme. However, It is within reason to expect a full refund of the product if it in fact failed as well as possible discounts towards future products. We offered this to Mike as well but he already has many of the upgraded components so it wasn't of much use, but we still offered it b/c of the principle.

Lets give LET another chance to resolve the situation and not just hammer them non-stop on the forum (and this is come from someone whose been hammered more than anyone ). I am sure this situation will resolve itself in the best way possible, lets not jump to conclusions. LET step up to the plate, I can assure you it will pay off in the long run.

~Omey~
AMS

 

ouch. sad to see that much damaged caused by seized bearing.

my evosport left side idler pulley seized last year. the bearing blow apart and luckily didn't do any damage other to the pulley itself. I bought replacement bearing thinking I could just replace the bearing, but the thing was so banged up I couldn't remove the old bearing. I went and bought a new idler pulley from evosport at the end. costing about $50-60.

 

On a side note, after doing some research of my own I just heard from dealership that numerous idler & guide pulleys are being recalled so please check if there is a recall on your specific vehicles, I know there is one for example on all the R171 SL350s and I am sure it applies to many other 350s engines as well as others I'm sure just as an example.

It appears this problem may be larger than just LET, AMS, VRP & and a few other of the pulley tuners so lets not be quick to judge.

Please check dealership for any possible recalls on your specific vehicle. Thanks

~AMS~

 

How many miles had the seized pulley?
Thanks.

 

Okay guys lets think for a minute:

I have been in modding now for over 25 years. NEVER, yes NEVER has any company sent me parts for free WITHOUT seeing the original. Companies like Mallory, Accel, MSD, AFR, Twisted Wedge, ROH, etc, etc, have NEVER sent me parts on “My word”. Now ALL of them HAVE sent me parts, AFTER receiving the defective part. Which is simply what LET has asked the OP to do. And NONE of them have EVER paid for additional loss of use or further damage. LET is simply doing what ALL large manufacturers do.

Look at this way, you are driving a new car, the engine breaks on a trip, you tow the car home and call the manufacturer and ask them to send you a new engine? Would they do it? Or would they INSIST on seeing the car.

LET is doing what ALL of the aftermarket companies are doing, which is COMPLETELY fair and HONEST, business practices.

All I can say about this thread is WOW. To expect ANY company to do anymore is really out there guys. As was stated above me are Modifying are cars guys and there is ALWAYS additional risk with this. Grow up guys and except responsibility for your decisions for these modifications. Things break and life happens. Move on and continue with your life.

See yeah

 

I got my replacement LCD TV without shipping out the old TV. They shipped the new one first and picked the old one up latter.
I got my Fexdex check for my claim by sending them the pictures of damages without sending them the part.
Many more

 

I guess somewhere you missed the topic of CAR PARTS here.

Yes I have received UPS checks for packages insured that never arrived, and other NON car stuff.

Now back to the regular schedule topic of CARS please

See yeah

 

To make it clear I never said the OP should get a full reimbursement.

Again, like hinted at in this thread, maybe LET should quit replying, because they really are doing more damage than good. 1 person with a bad experience tells 10 people but out of 10 people with good experience tells 1 person.

I myself was following this thread meerly as information, so I can keep up on the apparent issue that I am seeing more of. What doesnt help that issue is when a sponsor/vendor ADMITS that thier parts are causing for part failures, offers partial reimbursment, then takes that offer off the table 36 hrs later?

Thats what I saw.

Kudos for LET for taking a step in realising thier mistake. Kudos for LET for doing what they feel is right for fixing that problem. Thumbs up all the way. But to accuse the OP that he overtorqued it and it had nothing to do with thier product is silly. You have no way of knowing.

But again, all it takes is someone to read the replys in this thread and have it rub them the wrong way and bam LET just lost a customer or several.
Maybe I am the only one, maybe not. I am fine with that. It doesnt affect my business, it does affect my pocketbook and where my money goes.

Anyways. Im not here to bash, just to share the opinions I form based on the replys to this thread.

Learning is always a good thing too.

 

Very unfortunate situation. Both sides make very good points. Thought I would throw my .02 in as someone who has decided hundreds of small-claims court cases, many with similar sorts of fact patterns:

First of all, I have a little issue with LET's position that "because you were not spinning the pulley over 15K at the time of the failure, bearing failure is not the cause of the disaster." Frankly, this makes about as much sense as Phillip Morris telling the family of a guy dead of lung cancer "because he did not have a cigarette in his mouth when he died, cigarettes did not cause his death." In other words, just because the admittedly-inadequate bearing did not fail while it was being overspun does not mean that the overspinning of the bearing was not the root cause of the problem. It is very possible that the bearing had been weakened by being overspun, and finally failed, albeit not while being overspun.

On the other hand, proving causation in a case like this is tricky, and DTM would face an uphill (and expensive) court battle trying to prove that the bearing was the cause of the damages. Actually, this dispute is so potentially costly FOR BOTH OF YOU that you absolutely MUST find a middle-ground solution. Follow the age-old attorney mantra: "You know it is a fair settlement when both sides feel like they have lost."

If it were me (either as LET or DTM), I would think a reasonable solution would be:

1. Send LET the defective parts
2. LET sends part replacements
3. Split the consequential damages 50/50, in recognition that both sides have weaknesses in their positions. After all, we are not talking about huge dollars here.

Hope I did not step on anyone's toes. Hope you work it out.

 

+10000000000

See yeah

 

Regarding the issue of LET "offering" to pay $1000 dollars, and then rescinding that offer a short time later.

Personally, when I read LET's post that included the offer, I took it to be more of a philosophical point than a contractual offering. When I read it, it was my understanding that he was saying, "I'm just as likely to accept blame, and pay out of pocket for the repairs, as the shop who installed it would be." That is, not likely at all. Now it is true that he was working under the false assumption that the install was done by a shop, not a DIY job, but that doesn't change the point that, I believe, he was trying to make.

In reality, as many others have stated throughout this thread, the status quo is that, at most, a manufacturer will cover its own part, and never any resultant damage. It is my opinion that once you start buying aftermarket parts, and especially when you install them yourself, you are running the risk that something like this will happen. To expect the aftermarket parts manufacturer to pay for damages caused by a failure of this kind, where it is anything but clear where the blame lies, is unrealistic.

Like so many others, this is just my 0.02

 

1+

i agree...i think LET kinda go there foot stuck in there mouth when they made that offer. To tell you the truth i'm surprised even posted something like that.

 

This thread should be locked. Both parties have made their point and we're just beating a dead horse at this point. This is between buyer and seller.

 

on mine? around 70k miles. I put on 40k and previous owner put on 30k miles. other than that no other issue with the pulley.

 

the exact same problem with the Evosport ODPS.. I had this issue in early 2007.

bearing failure.... same waterpump cover.. issue.

One reason I went back to stock and check my pullies everyday. Check for noise, tension, ect.

 

i'm glad i went with the code3 pulley instead...too bad you have to wait a billion years to get your parts...

 

Not posting here to bag either vendor or customer - just to give my experience.

I installed LET's 185mm pulley setup back in February of this year and have enjoyed over 11K miles with no issues what-so-ever. (Except my Michelin PS2's wearing down) I drive my car extremely hard. It's not my daily commuter (I work less then 3 miles from home) so it's my canyon toy; driven hard - pure and simple.

I posted on the Crossfire forum the calculations for the idler bearings - both stock and aftermarket (LET and ASP). Go here to see them.

I think if LET can get a bearing manufacturer to run a special lot of bearings - preferably sealed on both sides - but filled with high temp PTFE grease - then the bearing can be rated to 25,000 RPM. If not - I would re-install the stock idler and size a larger belt. Either solution would cure the problem.

Truth is ASP has been selling their 178mm pulley's with the same issue for years..

I hope the MB repair manuals are better then the Crossfire manuals - because there are two different torque settings documented for the idler pulley. Take a look -- here

It can all be sorted out and we can be down the road worry free.

 

Thanks for your help, Brian. We have a good solution in the works and we owe it to you.

I'm going to replace all of the bearings as I mentioned on the x-fire forum.

There isn't a bearing that will work, so we had to have a hybrid unit made. We are almost there and will be posting the results soon.

NSK confirmed that the bearing I sent them was a 16,000 RPM bearing. The extra 2000 RPM can be reached by using special grease or possibly a non metal track or ceramic bearings that use a steel case.

Stay tuned...

 

since when did a pulley change become a big "DIY" job? who cares if it was done at home? the whole torque scenario is bs. idler and tensioner pulley bearings fail, i see it every day. ive even seen them thrown right through the hood. Working for a major OEM, i deal with warranty claims all day long. you will not A) get anything without returning the defective part B) get reimbursed for parts damaged by the defective part. i understand what appears to be the right and wrong way to handle warrantable failures, but it simply doesnt happen that way. LET handled it the same way any other manufacturer would. The OP had an issue, and put it out there, and theres nothing wrong with that. information is the reason we all come here, and he was sharing his. it seems as if LET is working on a different bearing now, so everyone will benefit from this. Just be glad it wasnt your ride, show some compassion for the OP as he is out alot of money, and encourage LET to move ahead with the bearing upgrade.

 

Thanks Frank for the info...

 

I disagree, alot of good information is coming out of this thread.

 

What's the ABEC rating on the NSK bearings? I would think it would be easier just to get some ABEC-7, ABEC-9, or ceramic hybrid bearings and swap them out with a press. Having been a professional inline speedskater years ago, I've have dealt with many bearing companies and am familiar with which companies make quality products and which ones do not.(not going to name names)

 

They are ABEC-1 bearings. They run about $8-$12 each and are good bearings.

The ceramic and higher rated ABEC-5+ bearings are much more expensive and I have been told they would be overkill.

We will most likely have our own set of bearings made, which might end up being hybrids or at the very least use a lighter grease or a non metal track.

I've given the project to the bearing companies and have asked them to find a good drop in replacement.

I would like to replace the ASP provided bearings out there to help out, so the solution needs to be cost effective.

 

with all do respect.

1) modding comes with a risk
2) performance parts does not comes with warranty

Although i don't know let and had never dealt with them nor bought anything from them before but in my opineon, they are a extremly good company for what they are doing, they are a responsible one.

Last year, i bought a bunch of tomei stuff for my vq35de and theese are my problems,

1) there are not enough shims for the cams, i had to machine my own shims and tomei dosen't give a damn bout it.
2) the wiring harness are all mixed up, we ended up rewiring it ourself.

and tonns of problem

Please give them some time, at least u guys know they have the heart to solve it, thats all matters, rushing dosen't help sometimes. the more u rush, the worse it gets.