TBM1

Hey all. I recently picked up a 2003 C32 AMG with just over 51k miles. The car has the cats deleted. For the first day or so I had no light, but today the "Check Engine" light came on. I did the service reset deal to see if that would clear the light, but it did not. My question is how mild to severe can a "Check Engine" light be on these cars? Thanks!

hooleyboy

Welcome to the forum, Stick around for a few minuets the C32 guys will help you out. Just ad some more detail on what cats are deleted, primary or secondary cats, Your car had 4 cats total. Are you sure it was not just a resonator delete? Lots of C32 guys just do that and leave the cats in place.

TBM1

Thanks for the response. As far as which cats are deleted...i don't know exactly. I know that there is, for sure, a lack of(or less) cats in place as you can for sure smell the gas. The car is suprisingly quieter than I expected it to be w/o cats. Perhaps resonators were used. I do know in other vehicles a cat delete will throw a code, but i did a search before posting and saw where someone had posted these cars should not. I apppreciate any help as i'm lost in the MB world. I frequent several other forums and recently sold my F1A Procharged Mach1 and purchased this vehicle. I felt like I knew all there was to know in Mustang land and am now lost lol.

Lenin

Is there any way you can get the codes read by an OBD2 scanner? The check engine light can come on for all kinds of things.

TBM1

Yah, i know. A buddy of mine has a foreign auto shop with MB diagnostic equipment so i'm going to see if I can get him to check the code for me.

john89011

Check the code, I doubt the cat deletes have anytihng to do with it.

TBM1

I should be getting it scanned tommorow so hopefully i'll know more. I just wanted to make sure that I didn't need to go into "panic" mode when the light came on.

john89011

cool... if you're near Autozone they'll do it for free too

jimmyp

Just unhook the neg bat terminal for about 1/2 hr at reset everything

TBM1

Here's some of the codes pulled today: P2027 B17/8, P207E, P200B, and the last one is hard to tell it looks like P2003. The weird thing is the car seems to run perfect and pull great when throttled. Other times it seems like the car is in "limp" mode and the acceleration seems greatly reduced. Any thoughts, ideas or opinions? Thanks!

Lenin

The P2027 and the "limp" mode are related. Most likely your IC pump needs to be replaced. Can your OBD friend take a measurement of your IAT? If your IAT is high like 180+ while driving, the ECU will not engage the SC and will briefly kill the fuel delivery.
The other two codes sound like they are cats related, but I don't know. Others have deleted secondary cats without any issues. I'm about to delete them myself next week when I install the new Supersprint exhaust.

TBM1

Well that would sound about right because when I drove the car a couple of nights ago the weather was very cool(for Florida) in the high 50's and the car ran great. Then today when I was driving the car it ran like a dog, but the temps were in the high 80's. If it is the I/C pump, what does a job like that typically cost?

Lenin

Most everybody now days uses a Johnson CM30 pump. You can get one from here http://autoperformanceengineering.com/html/jabsco.html or from here http://www.letmotorsports.com/produc...2&category=all. If you are a DIY person, you can do it in an hour +. There are instructions somewhere on the forum. As far as the shop doing it, it depends on the rates. 1.5 hours is more than reasonable IMHO.

TBM1

Thanks! I appreciate the help. He cleared the old codes today since I bought the car used and didn't know which codes were relevant to the current problem. He's going to rescan it again and see what "new" codes come up. It sounds like a reasonably cheap fix and an upgrade to boot.

If it isn't the I/C pump are there any other "known" problems in the C32's that would cause the aforementioned problems?

Lenin

It's hard to tell since the car is used and you don't know the full history but I would says that based on the P2027 code and your description, it is the IC pump or the IAT sensor itself. Others may have more ideas for you.

TBM1

Well it seems the pump is getting power, but isn't flowing so i'll be getting one of the those pumps listed above. The thing is the car keeps throwing a catalytic code. Are there replacement O2 sensors to keep the car from throwing codes?

Lenin

It's hard to tell if it is the cats or the O2 sensors. I would say it is O2 sensors, but don't spend any money based on this "remote" diagnosis.
O2 sensors are available for anywhere from $120-$160. What is your mileage?
The OEM O2 sensors are recommended to be replaced every 100K miles.

TBM1

51k.

boohooramblers

So.... You recently acquired your car and you coincidentally get a check engine light soon after your purchase?
Depending on who you purchased the car from, the seller could well have had the same codes and cleared them prior to selling it to you. It's unfortunate, but there are dishonest people like that out there. Sometimes the error codes reappear immediately; however, sometimes the error codes take days (or longer) to reappear.

You scanned via OBDII and found P2027, P207E, P200B, and P2003.

Even though your car only has 51K miles, these codes may not necessarily be related to each other and you may have several issues to contend with.

P2027:
As alluded to by the earlier responses by the guys, this code indicates your implausible IATs and that could be due to a faulty sensor or (more likely) a dysfunctional charge air cooling (IC) pump. Easy fix.

P207E and P200B:
These codes suggest that the efficiency of your left and right primary catalytic converters is insufficient.
You said that you smelled fuel and you are not positive as to which converters are present / absent. Look at the schematic below for the catalytic converters and determine which ones have been removed (if any). If your 1o catalytic converters are absent, then it is not surprising that you have P207E / P200B error codes.

P2003:
Can be related to P0410. This can be a malfunction of the secondary air injection system which is obviously a component of the emissions system. Several components may be suspect in this case; however a common problem is the faulty air pump and / or the air pump relay. If it isn't these, there could be problems with the O2 sensors, misfiring, or the EGR system.

TBM1

Thanks for the response. I appreciate your input. Yah, it's "funny" how the codes popped up shortly after purchasing the car. I understand there are going to be issues with a used car I just wasn't expecting them already. I paid the car in full so if I have to spend a little cash to keep it up to par then so be it. I was even thinking about getting an aftermarket warranty, but am a little leary with all the fine print of some of those businesses. The new i/c pump is going in tommorow so we'll see if that's the fix. The pump was getting power, but you could tell by touching the pump it wasn't running. From the looks underneath the car it appears the 1o cats are removed. I'm also taking the car for an alignment as it has been lowered, but doesn't appear to have been aligned. Any other tips or suggestions? Being a newbie to MB world I appreciate all the feedback. Thanks!

boohooramblers

Hopefully installation of the new IC pump will take care of your implausible IATs.

Are you sure? I'm trying to think of reasons why somebody would remove the primary cats (rather than the secondary cats).
The oxygen sensors are upstream and downstream of the primary cats so it doesn't make any sense to remove the primaries. Are the oxygen sensors still in place?
Removal of the secondary cats is a relatively popular modification amongst C32 owners with significant modifications - it is claimed that a few whp can be picked up upon their removal.

The only thing I can think of off hand is that the previous owner had some custom long-tube header setup that required removing the primary cats due to down-pipes. Perhaps they had racing cats instead? Hmmmm - definitely a little odd.

In any case, if your primary cats are indeed missing and you don't plan on installing replacements, you may be able to reposition the oxygen sensors so that they are upstream and downstream of the secondary cats. Just a suggestion. Otherwise, you are going to continue to get those error codes.

Another possible solution may be a tune. Kleemann has a header setup for the M113K that involves removal of the primary cats. They have a tune that apparently takes care of the error codes. Perhaps a similar addition to an M112K tune is possible?

How was it lowered: Coilovers or springs? In any case, I assume you are of the opinion that it wasn't aligned due to excessive wear on the inside of the tires?
Either way, if the car was lowered significantly, it should have been aligned.

Lenin

Also, there are O2 sensor simulators available. Let me know if you need more info on it.

320 dreamer

go to apeusa.com for the cm30 johnson pump. 145$ shipped. when i replaced mine i used siome rubber tubing froma bike tire and wrapped the pump. then i drilled 1 hole and tapped it were the original pump mounts and used the cm30 mount in the same location. i also drilled out the electrical plug from the old unit and soldered and heat shrinked the pos. and neg wires to it with a small 20k capacitor so as to not have to cut any factory wires. replaced old clamps with new ones and refill with a 50/50 mix of distilled water and m/b antifreeze. total time 2 hrs
be aware the new pump flows much more than the old. consider a code 3 or let heat exchanger so the flow wont back up at the intercooler inlet.

TBM1

Its being installed right now as we speak. My fingers are crossed.

I'm pretty sure they are the first ones. I tried to take a pic with my phone, but it came out crappy.



I was told the car has H&R springs. Yes, the excessive internal wear is what gave it away. Looks like I may need some struts as well. Any suggestions?

TBM1

I used to use those on my Mustang to prevent codes from being thrown. Any info on them would be great.