SC Clutch Replacement.
11-04-2009, 08:17 PM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
06 Elise (total loss)
SC Clutch Replacement.
I think I've found the problem... IAT sensor is fine, IC pump in a new CM30, IAT temps never go over 140-150, tested for power going to the SC clutch and it's showing 14v. When my car's SC disengages it still shows 14V going to the clutch.
Correct my if I'm wrong but when the car's IAT's or other faults have exceeded a safe level the computer cuts power to the clutch disengaging the SC?
So if power is always present to the clutch then it must be the clutch that's failing... Anybody have instruction on the removal of a clutch without removing the SC?
Where is the best place to get a replacement electromagnetic clutch?
Cheers,
Will
Correct my if I'm wrong but when the car's IAT's or other faults have exceeded a safe level the computer cuts power to the clutch disengaging the SC?
So if power is always present to the clutch then it must be the clutch that's failing... Anybody have instruction on the removal of a clutch without removing the SC?
Where is the best place to get a replacement electromagnetic clutch?
Cheers,
Will
11-04-2009, 08:38 PM
#2
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: murfreesboro,tn
Posts: 3,152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2003 porsche 996 turbo
i cant say for sure how its done but i know tvt has a used s/c for sale for 800$? the whole blower is prolly 1/3 what the dealer wants for the clutch
11-05-2009, 01:46 AM
#4
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
06 Elise (total loss)
Correct me if I'm wrong... The clutch has a 12v power supply and the ECU activates and deactivates the clutch by giving and taking power.
When I checked the power to the clutch it was constant... which seems odd as I was at idle. I will need to test again at temp as I read it runs when cold for condensation reasons.
I monitored constant power with a test light and the clutch disengaged while the light was on cutting power, the only logical conclusion I can come up with is a fault with the clutch.
What generally fails with the clutch? Somebody said there was a post regarding a DIY fix for an electrical short in the clutch. Anybody have a link?
Is there a surface that wears out on an magnetic clutch? Is it not just a 12v electromagnet that when powered magnatizes with the pulley and drives the charger?
Anybody have a diy guide for replacement?
Thanks everybody. Dont know what people did before the internet... Service departments must have made a lot more money. Dealer wanted 12k to rebuild the motor in my Lotus after I grenaded a piston, cost me $3400 and a $40 broadband connection to fix it.
When I checked the power to the clutch it was constant... which seems odd as I was at idle. I will need to test again at temp as I read it runs when cold for condensation reasons.
I monitored constant power with a test light and the clutch disengaged while the light was on cutting power, the only logical conclusion I can come up with is a fault with the clutch.
What generally fails with the clutch? Somebody said there was a post regarding a DIY fix for an electrical short in the clutch. Anybody have a link?
Is there a surface that wears out on an magnetic clutch? Is it not just a 12v electromagnet that when powered magnatizes with the pulley and drives the charger?
Anybody have a diy guide for replacement?
Thanks everybody. Dont know what people did before the internet... Service departments must have made a lot more money. Dealer wanted 12k to rebuild the motor in my Lotus after I grenaded a piston, cost me $3400 and a $40 broadband connection to fix it.
Last edited by dirtyhogan; 11-05-2009 at 01:55 AM. Reason: grammer
11-05-2009, 02:04 AM
#5
MBWorld Fanatic!
It sounds to me that you are checking the voltage, but have you checked the amperage? It may receive a constant low amperage 12v signal, but if there is no amperage there is no electromagnet.
11-05-2009, 10:32 PM
#6
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
06 Elise (total loss)
So it's not the clutch... Spliced into the clutches power lead and ran a multimeter into the car and yes the SC disengages when power randomly cuts out... I then supplied constant power to the clutch with the car off and it engages and disengages without issue.
No codes on an ODB2 and ITA's are normal... Would MB's SDS pick up something I'm missing?
Any suggestion?
No codes on an ODB2 and ITA's are normal... Would MB's SDS pick up something I'm missing?
Any suggestion?
Trending Topics
11-05-2009, 11:38 PM
#8
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
06 Elise (total loss)
Front harness by the clutch is gone... hardwired that as I thought it could possibly be a problem. Is there a fuse or a relay for that power to the clutch? Or does that connect directly into the SAM?
Also... What faults or parameters would disengage the SC? IAT's and what else? You think MB's Star might find something?
Also... What faults or parameters would disengage the SC? IAT's and what else? You think MB's Star might find something?
11-05-2009, 11:49 PM
#9
MBWorld Fanatic!
You hardwired the clutch for testing, and it passed without any functional failures? I ask, because it still could be an intermittent fault with the electromagnet. Possibly an internal short...
11-06-2009, 02:05 AM
#10
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
06 Elise (total loss)
Gt4awd thanks for the suggestion... It's definately the ECU that's cutting power to the SC, why is a good question.
My test was as follows:
Disconnected the power from the SC and hardwired it to a testlight in the car.
Drove around and the light came on when the should have, stayed on while driving, turned off at a stop, and never turned off while driving. Basically did what it should have to properly power the clutch.
My first though was what you suggested, a short in the clutch that resulted in the ECU cutting power to the clutch but I'm having second thoughts.
So I hardwired the clutch to the battery and hardwired the clutch's power source from the sam to a test light in the car. I wanted to see if the SC would cut in and out while driving.
Gave it gas the car pulled hard and the test light came on. Tried a second time car pulled hard and test light came on. The third time the car pulled for a second fell flat on it's face and the test light went out. Tried again and the test light would not come on and the car drove like a bucking bronco. Still full power from the batt to the clutch and an isolated test light direct to the sam.
I disconnected the clutch without shutting down the car and could not get the test light back on (few minutes driving around). I guess the ECU had detected a fault and went into some protection mode and would no longer power the clutch. Turned the car on and off, now with the clutch disconnected and the light once again operated properly.
My question is this... do you think the car was bucking from the clutch failing which caused the car to surge from an engaging and disengaging clutch, which resulted in the ECU going into a safe mode cutting power from the sam to the test light.
or
Did the ECU detect a fault under boost, cut power from the sam which didnt cut power to the clutch because it was hardwired, so the car went into a safe mode and was bucking from boost in a safe or limp mode. (all this time there has been no CEL's)
I guess the real question would be: When a SC clutch slips or disengages under load can this sudden loss of power cause the ECU to disengage power to the clutch for a period of time.
Or could it be a scenario of the ECU pulling power to the clutch because it detects a fault or some unsafe parameter under boost.
Any idea how I can know for sure without replacing the clutch?
P.S. Canadian MB dealer does not show a clutch repair kit in their system, any clue what the part number is?
Thanks for all your help guys... I'll have to fed-ex a couple cases of beer to the US.
My test was as follows:
Disconnected the power from the SC and hardwired it to a testlight in the car.
Drove around and the light came on when the should have, stayed on while driving, turned off at a stop, and never turned off while driving. Basically did what it should have to properly power the clutch.
My first though was what you suggested, a short in the clutch that resulted in the ECU cutting power to the clutch but I'm having second thoughts.
So I hardwired the clutch to the battery and hardwired the clutch's power source from the sam to a test light in the car. I wanted to see if the SC would cut in and out while driving.
Gave it gas the car pulled hard and the test light came on. Tried a second time car pulled hard and test light came on. The third time the car pulled for a second fell flat on it's face and the test light went out. Tried again and the test light would not come on and the car drove like a bucking bronco. Still full power from the batt to the clutch and an isolated test light direct to the sam.
I disconnected the clutch without shutting down the car and could not get the test light back on (few minutes driving around). I guess the ECU had detected a fault and went into some protection mode and would no longer power the clutch. Turned the car on and off, now with the clutch disconnected and the light once again operated properly.
My question is this... do you think the car was bucking from the clutch failing which caused the car to surge from an engaging and disengaging clutch, which resulted in the ECU going into a safe mode cutting power from the sam to the test light.
or
Did the ECU detect a fault under boost, cut power from the sam which didnt cut power to the clutch because it was hardwired, so the car went into a safe mode and was bucking from boost in a safe or limp mode. (all this time there has been no CEL's)
I guess the real question would be: When a SC clutch slips or disengages under load can this sudden loss of power cause the ECU to disengage power to the clutch for a period of time.
Or could it be a scenario of the ECU pulling power to the clutch because it detects a fault or some unsafe parameter under boost.
Any idea how I can know for sure without replacing the clutch?
P.S. Canadian MB dealer does not show a clutch repair kit in their system, any clue what the part number is?
Thanks for all your help guys... I'll have to fed-ex a couple cases of beer to the US.
11-06-2009, 03:08 AM
#11
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
06 Elise (total loss)
Sorry about the essay... To add to this.
When the test light is on with the SC hardwired to the batt and the test light hardwired to the SAM the car pulls hard and drives fine.
The second that light turns off the car runs terrible, surges, hesitates and falls flat. It continues to be this way until I reset the car and the light goes back on.
Since the clutch is hard wired to a batt this leads me to believe that something is happening under boost that causes the ECU to pull power from the test light and place itself in a safety mode, which makes it drive like *** under boost.
When the clutch is wired direct to the sam it does not surge or hesitate when the ecu cuts power to the clutch.
The must be some fault under boost that the ecu is detecting to pull power from the sam to the clutch... How on earth do I figure out what this problem is?
When the test light is on with the SC hardwired to the batt and the test light hardwired to the SAM the car pulls hard and drives fine.
The second that light turns off the car runs terrible, surges, hesitates and falls flat. It continues to be this way until I reset the car and the light goes back on.
Since the clutch is hard wired to a batt this leads me to believe that something is happening under boost that causes the ECU to pull power from the test light and place itself in a safety mode, which makes it drive like *** under boost.
When the clutch is wired direct to the sam it does not surge or hesitate when the ecu cuts power to the clutch.
The must be some fault under boost that the ecu is detecting to pull power from the sam to the clutch... How on earth do I figure out what this problem is?
11-06-2009, 03:26 AM
#12
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Corona, CA
Posts: 5,034
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
6 Posts
03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
Correct me if I'm wrong... The clutch has a 12v power supply and the ECU activates and deactivates the clutch by giving and taking power.
When I checked the power to the clutch it was constant... which seems odd as I was at idle. I will need to test again at temp as I read it runs when cold for condensation reasons.
I monitored constant power with a test light and the clutch disengaged while the light was on cutting power, the only logical conclusion I can come up with is a fault with the clutch.
What generally fails with the clutch? Somebody said there was a post regarding a DIY fix for an electrical short in the clutch. Anybody have a link?
Is there a surface that wears out on an magnetic clutch? Is it not just a 12v electromagnet that when powered magnatizes with the pulley and drives the charger?
Anybody have a diy guide for replacement?
Thanks everybody. Dont know what people did before the internet... Service departments must have made a lot more money. Dealer wanted 12k to rebuild the motor in my Lotus after I grenaded a piston, cost me $3400 and a $40 broadband connection to fix it.
When I checked the power to the clutch it was constant... which seems odd as I was at idle. I will need to test again at temp as I read it runs when cold for condensation reasons.
I monitored constant power with a test light and the clutch disengaged while the light was on cutting power, the only logical conclusion I can come up with is a fault with the clutch.
What generally fails with the clutch? Somebody said there was a post regarding a DIY fix for an electrical short in the clutch. Anybody have a link?
Is there a surface that wears out on an magnetic clutch? Is it not just a 12v electromagnet that when powered magnatizes with the pulley and drives the charger?
Anybody have a diy guide for replacement?
Thanks everybody. Dont know what people did before the internet... Service departments must have made a lot more money. Dealer wanted 12k to rebuild the motor in my Lotus after I grenaded a piston, cost me $3400 and a $40 broadband connection to fix it.
11-06-2009, 03:30 AM
#13
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Corona, CA
Posts: 5,034
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
6 Posts
03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
Sorry about the essay... To add to this.
When the test light is on with the SC hardwired to the batt and the test light hardwired to the SAM the car pulls hard and drives fine.
The second that light turns off the car runs terrible, surges, hesitates and falls flat. It continues to be this way until I reset the car and the light goes back on.
Since the clutch is hard wired to a batt this leads me to believe that something is happening under boost that causes the ECU to pull power from the test light and place itself in a safety mode, which makes it drive like *** under boost.
When the clutch is wired direct to the sam it does not surge or hesitate when the ecu cuts power to the clutch.
The must be some fault under boost that the ecu is detecting to pull power from the sam to the clutch... How on earth do I figure out what this problem is?
When the test light is on with the SC hardwired to the batt and the test light hardwired to the SAM the car pulls hard and drives fine.
The second that light turns off the car runs terrible, surges, hesitates and falls flat. It continues to be this way until I reset the car and the light goes back on.
Since the clutch is hard wired to a batt this leads me to believe that something is happening under boost that causes the ECU to pull power from the test light and place itself in a safety mode, which makes it drive like *** under boost.
When the clutch is wired direct to the sam it does not surge or hesitate when the ecu cuts power to the clutch.
The must be some fault under boost that the ecu is detecting to pull power from the sam to the clutch... How on earth do I figure out what this problem is?
maybe its the front sam? i remember if you look at the high mileage c32 thread. lot of them replaced there front sam's. I really doubt its the clutch. I think i've only seen one or two actual threads of srt6 or c32 clutches going bad.
The front sam is more of a common issue for the w203 in general and c32s.
11-06-2009, 03:41 AM
#14
MBWorld Fanatic!
Wow this one has been terrible to narrow down... You have replaced everything that commonly causes clutch to disengage. I will say your ability to test this issue is impressive. I like how you hardwired the clutch, and set up test lights! I believe the bucking is due to the clutch being hardwired. Now you really have narrowed it down to either a relay, SAM issue, or the clutch. My opinion is that the clutch is bad, and once detecting a fault in the clutch the ECU disengages due to the potential engine damage it could cause. I wouldn't recommend testing too often by running the engine with the clutch hardwired. Tomorrow I'll call the dealership, and get the repair kit part number for you. I'll search real fast for now, and see if it comes up.
Edit: I do agree too that the SAM could be the potential cause. Can SDS pick up a fault in the SAM?
Edit: I do agree too that the SAM could be the potential cause. Can SDS pick up a fault in the SAM?
Last edited by gt4awd; 11-06-2009 at 03:43 AM.
11-06-2009, 03:42 AM
#15
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
06 Elise (total loss)
No kidding, new crate motor is $6500 from Toyota or 10k + from Lotus.
I remember seeing a thread on Lotus talk where a guy bought an oil filter from the dealer for some crazy amount of money and it came in a Toyota box with Lotus written on the box with a felt pen. What a joke...
Front sam? I doubt it... When the clutch is disconnected and I run a test light the sam communicates to the test light as it should and the car drive fine. When I apply boost by supplying an external power supply to the clutch it turns the test light out and the car runs like ****.
Something is happening under boost that the computer does not like so it pulls power....
I remember seeing a thread on Lotus talk where a guy bought an oil filter from the dealer for some crazy amount of money and it came in a Toyota box with Lotus written on the box with a felt pen. What a joke...
Front sam? I doubt it... When the clutch is disconnected and I run a test light the sam communicates to the test light as it should and the car drive fine. When I apply boost by supplying an external power supply to the clutch it turns the test light out and the car runs like ****.
Something is happening under boost that the computer does not like so it pulls power....
11-06-2009, 03:53 AM
#16
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Corona, CA
Posts: 5,034
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
6 Posts
03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
yeah for $12k you probably could've built the block and turbo..
did you have any mods? Maybe your running too much boost?
did you clean the map sensor?
did you have any mods? Maybe your running too much boost?
did you clean the map sensor?
11-06-2009, 04:11 AM
#17
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
06 Elise (total loss)
My question is how does the ECU detect a fault in the clutch when there is no communication with the clutch? Clutch has two wires that are disconnected. I wonder if anybody knows under what parameters the ECU cuts power to the clutch.
We know it cuts power because of IAT's.
Would it cut power when it detects no boost under load, or a boost pulse from an engaging and disengaging clutch.
GT4awd I would agreed on not wanting to run the SC with the clutch hardwired, when that test light went out and the car started bucking it felt like my car was going to fall apart.
Guess that's why the ECU cut power... Wanted to save me from that sensation. Only question is what's triggering it. I would hate to spend 1k on a clutch, sam etc... for it to be something else, maybe a sensor causing a fault.
I thought about pulling the belt, hardwiring the clutch so it's active and putting a strap wrench around the clutch and one around the pulley and testing with all my might for slip or it disengaging... I wonder how much force that sucker it supposed to have when it's working. I figured that if I apply constant force trying to spin them against each other and it all of the sudden disengages and then bites I've got a clutch slip issue.
I wish I had a second C32 in working order to run some strange backyard comparison tests.
I wonder if MB tech's use similar problem solving techniques at $125 an hour.
I've got the car booked for Tuesday to see if the Star system picks up some hidden faults my ODB2 is missing.
We know it cuts power because of IAT's.
Would it cut power when it detects no boost under load, or a boost pulse from an engaging and disengaging clutch.
GT4awd I would agreed on not wanting to run the SC with the clutch hardwired, when that test light went out and the car started bucking it felt like my car was going to fall apart.
Guess that's why the ECU cut power... Wanted to save me from that sensation. Only question is what's triggering it. I would hate to spend 1k on a clutch, sam etc... for it to be something else, maybe a sensor causing a fault.
I thought about pulling the belt, hardwiring the clutch so it's active and putting a strap wrench around the clutch and one around the pulley and testing with all my might for slip or it disengaging... I wonder how much force that sucker it supposed to have when it's working. I figured that if I apply constant force trying to spin them against each other and it all of the sudden disengages and then bites I've got a clutch slip issue.
I wish I had a second C32 in working order to run some strange backyard comparison tests.
I wonder if MB tech's use similar problem solving techniques at $125 an hour.
I've got the car booked for Tuesday to see if the Star system picks up some hidden faults my ODB2 is missing.
11-06-2009, 04:21 AM
#19
MBWorld Fanatic!
My question is how does the ECU detect a fault in the clutch when there is no communication with the clutch?
thought about pulling the belt, hardwiring the clutch so it's active and putting a strap wrench around the clutch and one around the pulley and testing with all my might for slip or it disengaging... I wonder how much force that sucker it supposed to have when it's working. I figured that if I apply constant force trying to spin them against each other and it all of the sudden disengages and then bites I've got a clutch slip issue.
Last edited by gt4awd; 11-06-2009 at 04:39 AM.
11-06-2009, 04:48 AM
#20
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
06 Elise (total loss)
I get where you're coming from but the ecu is not reading a cut in signal because it's hardwired to a testlight.... The ecu is getting a return from that test light completing the circuit and for all the ecu knows based on a complete circuit is that it's powering a clutch.
I think what the ECU is detecting is a problem from the boost. A pulse or drop of boost under load, knock, who knows... But I definitely think it's a problem being detected from another sensor...
I'll keep you guys posted on the clutch/ pulley test...
I think what the ECU is detecting is a problem from the boost. A pulse or drop of boost under load, knock, who knows... But I definitely think it's a problem being detected from another sensor...
I'll keep you guys posted on the clutch/ pulley test...
11-10-2009, 09:46 PM
#22
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
06 Elise (total loss)
Replaced the MAP sensor and problem has not changed...
Can still cuts power to the SC under boost.... Thursday it going into MB to see if their STAR can pick up something that I'm missing.
Any other suggestions? This is driving me nuts.
Can still cuts power to the SC under boost.... Thursday it going into MB to see if their STAR can pick up something that I'm missing.
Any other suggestions? This is driving me nuts.
11-16-2009, 01:29 PM
#24
Newbie
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DC2R
the magnetic clutch is acutated by the me. 12v+ is supplied by front sam. me will ground out the clutch.
star tester can perform a manual actuation of the magnetic clutch to verify mechanical or electrical faults.
are you getting grnd from me to magnetic clutch?
star tester can perform a manual actuation of the magnetic clutch to verify mechanical or electrical faults.
are you getting grnd from me to magnetic clutch?
05-31-2015, 03:13 AM
#25
Newbie
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1998 slk230
hi i am getting ground just with the live wire connected ive got a faulty barrel plug which ive cut off waiting for pins to repair it, so when i joined the live wire the clutch started spinning without joining the ground wire whats happened there
