My C55 vs new M3
They always get me off the line (easily!) but on the freeway I beat them. Is it a weight/gearing thing? :smash:
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One word: TORQUE
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Torque would be from a stand still ? The M3 has more of both, I would blame the driver. M3 has like 420 HP and 400 TQ
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Originally Posted by JonMBZ
(Post 3993126)
Torque would be from a stand still ? The M3 has more of both, I would blame the driver. M3 has like 420 HP and 400 TQ
M3's have always been fast, but low on torque. Try 414 HP and 295 Ft. lbs of torque at the crank. |
I would think it would be close off the line due to the 376ft-lbs of torque the C55 has and then the M3 would take the lead after that..
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Originally Posted by Gramma_Benz
(Post 3993176)
No way man!
M3's have always been fast, but low on torque. Try 414 HP and 295 Ft. lbs of torque at the crank. |
Correct me if i'm wrong, but the new M3s can fit a substantially larger rear tire vs our pathetic 255s(discounting rolling fenders/rubbing with 265s)
that and their far superior tranny will allow the to put better power down off the line |
I could understand off the line because of the low TQ numbers, but on the highway just doesnt make sense to me. Last time I checked the M3 as geared well and had more HP...
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Originally Posted by Gramma_Benz
(Post 3993176)
No way man!
M3's have always been fast, but low on torque. Try 414 HP and 295 Ft. lbs of torque at the crank. Engine Cylinders/valves 8/4 Capacity in ccm 3,999 Stroke/bore in mm 75.2/92.0 Max. output in kW (hp) at 1/min 309 (420)/8,300 Max. torque in Nm at 1/min 400/3,900 Power-to-weight ratio (EU) in kg/hp 4.0 (4.0) |
Originally Posted by JonMBZ
(Post 3993302)
Engine
Cylinders/valves 8/4 Capacity in ccm 3,999 Stroke/bore in mm 75.2/92.0 Max. output in kW (hp) at 1/min 309 (420)/8,300 Max. torque in Nm at 1/min 400/3,900 Power-to-weight ratio (EU) in kg/hp 4.0 (4.0) |
per http://www.m3forum.com/
"Supreme performance ensured by 309 kW/420 hp from 4.0 litres. Maximum torque of 400 Newton-metres (295 lb-ft) at 3, 900 rpm, 85 per cent of maximum torque over a speed range of 6,500 rpm." |
oh I never read numbers beyond what they posted them as. I didn't realize they played with them like that. I thought these M3s were keeping up with C63s didn't realize they were so weak. Good to know now I need to learn the conversion in case they post them differently like that.
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Originally Posted by wawy
(Post 3993178)
I would think it would be close off the line due to the 376ft-lbs of torque the C55 has and then the M3 would take the lead after that..
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Originally Posted by JonMBZ
(Post 3993324)
oh I never read numbers beyond what they posted them as. I didn't realize they played with them like that. I thought these M3s were keeping up with C63s didn't realize they were so weak. Good to know now I need to learn the conversion in case they post them differently like that.
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A few people have it backwards, torque plays even more of a factor from a roll (hence why NA 55 AMGs can take down M3s at speed). Torque is king in the straights, its actually a disadvantage from a stand still due to wheel spin (unless you can get full traction off the line). M3s are also extremely aggressively geared (b/c of their high redline they can be), as a result at low speeds they get moving down the road real quick, launch control helps in that regard as well. However, once the cars are moving... that advantage no longer exists, then its just straight line torque that wins at higher speeds. On a race track different story, but in straight line AMG def has advantage from roll (I'd know) :) . Surprisingly even vs. DSG no speed was lost between gears against the M3. It was relatively close but AMG won once speeds started to increase.
There's no replacement for displacement... |
i still think the m3 should've won unless it was a manual and the guy couldn't drive. The c55 should have the m3 off the line but then the m3 should slowly walk it as it plays catch up. The more aggressive gearing and higher rev's has the m3 in its favor in higher speeds.
Keep in mind the gears multiples the tq you put to the ground. Lower tq engines generally compensate with more aggressive gears. I really doubt a stock c55 would be able to beat a e92 m3 in a quarter or higher speed roll. Given equal drivers. I just wanted to say that before the BMW fan boys come in here and flame the op, like in the c32 vs m5 thread. |
The new M3 will walk any stock C32 or C55....:smash:
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Originally Posted by Gramma_Benz
(Post 3993176)
No way man!
M3's have always been fast, but low on torque. Try 414 HP and 295 Ft. lbs of torque at the crank. |
torque gets you going....horsepower keeps you going....
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Engine torque ratings mean nothing. You do realize the torque from your engine is multiplied by your gearbox and final drive ratio, then applied to the ground right? Come on guys, stock for stock a E92 M3 will walk a C32/C55. Quit dreaming.
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Here, I'll make it easy for you guys:
C55 AMG 363hp/376lb-ft @ 4000rpm 3,605lbs 9.93lbs/hp Fastest stock time on dragtimes: 13.2s @ 107.3mph E92 M3 414hp/296lb-ft tq 3,704lbs 8.9lbs/hp Fastest stock time on dragtimes: 12.510s @ 114.8mph |
Looking at acceleration times from a standing start, where the M3 can have the advantage of launching the car at high rpm's, is not a best judge of what can happen when one starts racing from a roll.
Although I personally have no experience with regards to "racing" a E9X M3 from a roll or from a standing start, I suspect that the rolling race is the one situation where the C55 has a CHANCE of keeping up for a short distance (or possibly have a slight edge if the race is short enough, especially if the M3 driver is not in the optimal gear). Don't get me wrong, eventually, the E9X M3 will pull away easily without a doubt given the higher HP as the race goes on, but that initial start from a roll is where the C55 could possibly shine. We all know the C55 gets killed by a properly driven and launched E9X M3 from a standing start (0-60, 0-100, 1/4 mile, etc, etc). However, what happens when there is no launch at high rpm for the E9X M3? Car and Driver is the only North America magazine which formally times rolling starts: C55/E92 M3 with M-DCT 5-60mph: 4.9/4.8 30-50mph: 2.5/2.4 50-70mph: 3.2/3.2 The C55 can possibly keep up initially (likely because of that superior torque), although the M3 will almost certainly pull away as the race goes on. If the M3 driver is not in his optimal gear, it is possible for the C55 to pull ahead early on in a rolling race. This is in keeping with what I have seen when tracking and powering out of corners when following E92 M3's (which is the closest thing to a "rolling race" I have ever experienced). |
Originally Posted by PC Valkyrie
(Post 3993948)
Looking at acceleration times from a standing start, where the M3 can have the advantage of launching the car at high rpm's, is not a best judge of what can happen when one starts racing from a roll.
Although I personally have no experience with regards to "racing" a E9X M3 from a roll or from a standing start, I suspect that the rolling race is the one situation where the C55 has a CHANCE of keeping up for a short distance (or possibly have a slight edge if the race is short enough, especially if the M3 driver is not in the optimal gear). Don't get me wrong, eventually, the E9X M3 will pull away easily without a doubt given the higher HP as the race goes on, but that initial start from a roll is where the C55 could possibly shine. We all know the C55 gets killed by a properly driven and launched E9X M3 from a standing start (0-60, 0-100, 1/4 mile, etc, etc). However, what happens when there is no launch at high rpm for the E9X M3? Car and Driver is the only North America magazine which formally times rolling starts: C55/E92 M3 with M-DCT 5-60mph: 4.9/4.8 30-50mph: 2.5/2.4 50-70mph: 3.2/3.2 The C55 can possibly keep up initially (likely because of that superior torque), although the M3 will almost certainly pull away as the race goes on. If the M3 driver is not in his optimal gear, it is possible for the C55 to pull ahead early on in a rolling race. This is in keeping with what I have seen when tracking and powering out of corners when following E92 M3's (which is the closest thing to a "rolling race" I have ever experienced). |
Proper driven M3 runs even or very close (DCT) with C63s.. (stock V stock)
C55 can't hang with C63 (stock V stock).... Case closed. |
Originally Posted by e1000
(Post 3993863)
Engine torque ratings mean nothing. You do realize the torque from your engine is multiplied by your gearbox and final drive ratio, then applied to the ground right? Come on guys, stock for stock a E92 M3 will walk a C32/C55. Quit dreaming.
so 337/345 at the wheels with 3600 pounds vs 340/250 with 3700 pounds? I'm pretty sure a well modded C32 or a ecu/header C55 could keep up, if not beat a m3 on a roll. I never said smoke or easily walk one, but beat it. |
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