Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5W-40
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From: SoCal
98 Brilliant Silver E320 Wagon
I don't see it being contradicted unless it specifically states that 5W40 is not to be used it's possible that the other oils listed on what you are referencing are not approved in gas engine. If you read on the back of the 5W40 bottle it states in black and white that works in gas engine. As for the validity of this document, I work at a dealer and pulled the info from a netstar bulletin dated some time back in 2006. I doubt anyone would go this far to publish misinformation.
There was a fellow out here (not this site) a while back who posted that a oil was approved by MB. He produced what appeared to be a MB document as his proof. It turned out that the document had been prepared by a third party training company not MB. It seemed to say the oil was approved but later in the same paragraph it said it was not. The point is there's lots of info floating around the internet -- some true, some false and some malicious. I just hope everyone can sort out the difference.
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From: SCV SoCal
2002 CLK430
Here is a very basic web page on why some oils are better choices than others.
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From: Middle of IL in a corn field
2006 C55 AMG White/Ash
MB229.5 is the spec for the oil used in gas engines that are in an AMG
MB229.51 is the spec for oil in diesel engines by MB
Mobil1 0-W40 European oil doesn't meet 229.51 because it was made for gas engines and their needs
Mobil1 5-W40 ESP doesn't meet 229.5 because it was made for diesel engines and their needs
Unless you have a diesel AMG, you should put in Mobil1 0-W40 because it DOES meet the spec by MB and the 5-W40 DOESN'T.
I guess in the end, since it is easily available, why wouldn't an owner want to use the correct oil instead of going out of their way to use the wrong? The Arizona arguement doesn't hold up because both oils are 40 weight when hot.
Last edited by Phil C55; May 2, 2010 at 06:55 PM.
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From: California
06 C55, 09 E350
I am not going to keep restating the same thing over and over, but if you read the document it says dealers are not even required to carry 0W40 as 5W40 is fully backwards compatible. I am not trying to win anything here and I have listed everything I thought would help you guys. If you choose to not agree with it, then continue not to use it. It's honestly not that big of a deal either way to me. Trust me I am only trying to help you guys being a fellow enthusiast.
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CLK63 Black Series
OK, then lets list facts:
MB229.5 is the spec for the oil used in gas engines that are in an AMG
MB229.51 is the spec for oil in diesel engines by MB
Mobil1 0-W40 European oil doesn't meet 229.51 because it was made for gas engines and their needs
Mobil1 5-W40 ESP doesn't meet 229.5 because it was made for diesel engines and their needs
Unless you have a diesel AMG, you should put in Mobil1 0-W40 because it DOES meet the spec by MB and the 5-W40 DOESN'T.
I guess in the end, since it is easily available, why wouldn't an owner want to use the correct oil instead of going out of their way to use the wrong? The Arizona arguement doesn't hold up because both oils are 40 weight when hot.
MB229.5 is the spec for the oil used in gas engines that are in an AMG
MB229.51 is the spec for oil in diesel engines by MB
Mobil1 0-W40 European oil doesn't meet 229.51 because it was made for gas engines and their needs
Mobil1 5-W40 ESP doesn't meet 229.5 because it was made for diesel engines and their needs
Unless you have a diesel AMG, you should put in Mobil1 0-W40 because it DOES meet the spec by MB and the 5-W40 DOESN'T.
I guess in the end, since it is easily available, why wouldn't an owner want to use the correct oil instead of going out of their way to use the wrong? The Arizona arguement doesn't hold up because both oils are 40 weight when hot.
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Joined: Nov 2009
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E63
Why don't you all just go by this: http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/o...tedDocId=10119 which are the official MB oil specs? My M156 AMG engine is allowed to use 229.5 or 229.51. And somewhere on this forum someone mentioned that the preferred oil for the M156's is 5W-40 Mobil1.
Last edited by hgerhardt; May 2, 2010 at 10:28 PM.
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From: Middle of IL in a corn field
2006 C55 AMG White/Ash
Maybe you should get your facts straight. Pick up a quart of 5-40 ESP and look at the back label and it says "Approved and exceeds warranty requirements for GASOLINE and diesel engines that require oil that meets MB-Approval 229.51". I bought a brand new Black Series CLK63 with an extended 7year/100K mile warranty. Obviously not a diesel engine in that car. Why would they not only recommend that specific oil for that specific car, but also use it when I bring the car in for service and put it in writing on the service record? If the engine detonates because of wrong oil, who do you think is going to pay for the repair? Do you really think MB is that stupid???
http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/o...tedDocId=10119
I did notice that if you choose to follow 229.5 on a 156 engine you are to use the 0-W40 oil only.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: California
06 C55, 09 E350
I would say YOU need to get your facts straight. What you seem to be missing is most gas engines call for you to follow spec 229.5 NOT 229.51. Your CLK63 has a 156 engine and is one of the few that can use either spec. The C55 has a 113 engine and it calls for the spec of 229.5 the facts are right here from the MBUSA web site.
http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/o...tedDocId=10119
I did notice that if you choose to follow 229.5 on a 156 engine you are to use the 0-W40 oil only.
http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/o...tedDocId=10119
I did notice that if you choose to follow 229.5 on a 156 engine you are to use the 0-W40 oil only.
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CLK63 Black Series
I would say YOU need to get your facts straight. What you seem to be missing is most gas engines call for you to follow spec 229.5 NOT 229.51. Your CLK63 has a 156 engine and is one of the few that can use either spec. The C55 has a 113 engine and it calls for the spec of 229.5 the facts are right here from the MBUSA web site.
http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/o...tedDocId=10119
I did notice that if you choose to follow 229.5 on a 156 engine you are to use the 0-W40 oil only.
http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/o...tedDocId=10119
I did notice that if you choose to follow 229.5 on a 156 engine you are to use the 0-W40 oil only.
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From: Middle of IL in a corn field
2006 C55 AMG White/Ash
I tried to make a point. According to your post 229.51 was ONLY for diesel engines. And yes, when I first bought the car in Nov. of 2007 there was no 5-40 ESP, and the car came from the factory with 0-40. Which makes me wonder, if I can use both oils in my engine, why wouldn't you be able to?
I remember twenty years ago when my wife had a new Pontiac that called for 5-W30 and I thought "what do they know, it needs to be heavier" so I put in 10-W30 and it rattled on start up. It never did that on the 5-W30, so I immediately changed back to 5-W30 and the rattle left. Lesson learned, turns out the people who design, test, and manufacture do know more than the guy at home.
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From: SoCal
98 Brilliant Silver E320 Wagon
If you want to use the factory approved oil then follow the document I referenced and others have linked to. There have been and will be endless debates about what is okay among end users. Will your engine blow up when you start it if you use a non-approved oil? Of course not. What you are playing with is wear (ie longevity), easy starting and gas mileage. I use factory approved fluids and filters because I plan to keep my car as long as possible. But nothing is guaranteed. I'm just hedging my bet.
Good luck.
Good luck.
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From: Middle of IL in a corn field
2006 C55 AMG White/Ash
Hey Jon, what is the column with the Xs for? Just curious, it also seems odd that Mobil is too stupid to print on their own oil that the 5-W40 meets BOTH 229.5 and 229.51. They felt it was important to print the 229.51. I'm not arguing at all, just making observations. The StarTek current approved sheet on line doesn't jive with the screen you posted...........how in the world is anyone supposed to understand all this when MB is inconsistant with their own info.
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From: California
06 C55, 09 E350
I think them adding it is still new I have been a part of these discussions before and the info was not available at that time. Mobile is probably not allowed to put it was approved until it was fully tested or maybe it is known in their world that 229.51 oils work in 229.5 spec cars.
http://www.mbz.cc/229.5.jpg
http://www.mbz.cc/229.5_2.jpg
http://www.mbz.cc/229.5.jpg
http://www.mbz.cc/229.5_2.jpg
Junior Member
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C32
hey lets not get carried away here. I have never seen so many documents and citations just to prove a single number on oil weight...
So to wikipedia we go, and we ALL already know this! The first number is just the viscosity rating when cold.
"The idea is to cause the multi-grade oil to have the viscosity of the base grade when cold and the viscosity of the second grade when hot. This enables one type of oil to be generally used all year. In fact, when multi-grades were initially developed, they were frequently described as all-season oil. " Wikipedia.
HOWEVER, there is more involved with the C32 AMG. Here is why I think the 0w matters, and that only mobil 1 0w-40 should be used:
The simple fact is our car has a high pressure supercharger. It is imperative that the supercharger and other associated parts be properly lubricated, ESPECIALLY on start-up. The 0w rating allowed the oil to flow like water once the car has started, and this basically allowed the oil to lubricate like water, then get hot and become 40w.
Turbos are different but a somewhat similar concept. Turbo timers allow oil to both lubricate on startup, and allows excess oil to be exposed of during shut down.
JUST FOLLOW YOUR INSTRUCTION MANUALS. 0w-40 Euro Formula. And ONLY MANN FILTERS YO!
So to wikipedia we go, and we ALL already know this! The first number is just the viscosity rating when cold.
"The idea is to cause the multi-grade oil to have the viscosity of the base grade when cold and the viscosity of the second grade when hot. This enables one type of oil to be generally used all year. In fact, when multi-grades were initially developed, they were frequently described as all-season oil. " Wikipedia.
HOWEVER, there is more involved with the C32 AMG. Here is why I think the 0w matters, and that only mobil 1 0w-40 should be used:
The simple fact is our car has a high pressure supercharger. It is imperative that the supercharger and other associated parts be properly lubricated, ESPECIALLY on start-up. The 0w rating allowed the oil to flow like water once the car has started, and this basically allowed the oil to lubricate like water, then get hot and become 40w.
Turbos are different but a somewhat similar concept. Turbo timers allow oil to both lubricate on startup, and allows excess oil to be exposed of during shut down.
JUST FOLLOW YOUR INSTRUCTION MANUALS. 0w-40 Euro Formula. And ONLY MANN FILTERS YO!
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 510
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From: san jose, ca
2002 C32 1987 190E 2.3 334K miles and going
more stuff on this Mobil 1
found this on AMGmarket.com
Mercedes-Benz recommends only the use of Mercedes-Benz approved synthetic motor oil for all vehicles equipped with the Flexible Service System (1998 & newer). Below is a List of Mercedes Approved Synthetic Engine Oil (1998 – 2004 Models):
•Mobil 1 SuperSyn European Car Formula 0W-40 | MB Sheet: 229.5
•Castrol Syntec European Formula 0W-30* | MB Sheet: 229.5
•Pennzoil European Formula Ultra 5W-30* | MB Sheet: 229.5
•Quaker State European Formula Ultra 5W-30* | MB Sheet: 229.5
•ELF Excellium 229.5 5W-30* | MB Sheet: 229.5
•Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5W-40 | MB Sheet: 229.5•Mobil 1 SuperSyn European Car Formula 0W-40 | MB Sheet: 229.3
•Castrol Syntec 5W-40 | MB Sheet: 229.3
•ELF Excellium LDX 5W-40 | MB Sheet: 229.3
•ELF Excellium LDX 0W-30* | MB Sheet: 229.3
•Quaker State Full Synthetic European Formula 5W-40 | MB Sheet: 229.3
•Pennzoil Synthetic European Formula 5W-40 | MB Sheet: 229.3
•76 Pure Synthetic Motor Oil 5W-40 | MB Sheet: 229.3
•Kendall GT-1 Full Synthetic Motor Oil 5W-40 | MB Sheet: 229.3
•Motul 8100 E-Tech 0W-40 | MB Sheet: 229.3
•Motul 8100 X-Cess 5W-40 | MB Sheet: 229.3
•Shell Helix Ultra 5W-30* | MB Sheet: 229.3
•Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 | MB Sheet: 229.3
•Valvoline SynPower MXL 0W-30*| MB Sheet: 229.3
List of Mercedes-Benz Approved Synthetic Engine Oil (2005-2009 Models):
•Mobil 1 SuperSyn European Car Formula 0W-40
•Castrol Syntec European Formula 0W-30*
•Pennzoil European Formula Ultra 5W-30*
•Quaker State European Formula Ultra 5W-30*
•ELF Excellium 229.5 5W-30* Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5W-401
•Valvoline SynPower MST 5W-30*
* Not approved for use in AMG engines.
NOTE: As of model year 2007 diesel engines must only use 229.51 approved engine oil.
Mercedes-Benz recommends only the use of Mercedes-Benz approved synthetic motor oil for all vehicles equipped with the Flexible Service System (1998 & newer). Below is a List of Mercedes Approved Synthetic Engine Oil (1998 – 2004 Models):
•Mobil 1 SuperSyn European Car Formula 0W-40 | MB Sheet: 229.5
•Castrol Syntec European Formula 0W-30* | MB Sheet: 229.5
•Pennzoil European Formula Ultra 5W-30* | MB Sheet: 229.5
•Quaker State European Formula Ultra 5W-30* | MB Sheet: 229.5
•ELF Excellium 229.5 5W-30* | MB Sheet: 229.5
•Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5W-40 | MB Sheet: 229.5•Mobil 1 SuperSyn European Car Formula 0W-40 | MB Sheet: 229.3
•Castrol Syntec 5W-40 | MB Sheet: 229.3
•ELF Excellium LDX 5W-40 | MB Sheet: 229.3
•ELF Excellium LDX 0W-30* | MB Sheet: 229.3
•Quaker State Full Synthetic European Formula 5W-40 | MB Sheet: 229.3
•Pennzoil Synthetic European Formula 5W-40 | MB Sheet: 229.3
•76 Pure Synthetic Motor Oil 5W-40 | MB Sheet: 229.3
•Kendall GT-1 Full Synthetic Motor Oil 5W-40 | MB Sheet: 229.3
•Motul 8100 E-Tech 0W-40 | MB Sheet: 229.3
•Motul 8100 X-Cess 5W-40 | MB Sheet: 229.3
•Shell Helix Ultra 5W-30* | MB Sheet: 229.3
•Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 | MB Sheet: 229.3
•Valvoline SynPower MXL 0W-30*| MB Sheet: 229.3
List of Mercedes-Benz Approved Synthetic Engine Oil (2005-2009 Models):
•Mobil 1 SuperSyn European Car Formula 0W-40
•Castrol Syntec European Formula 0W-30*
•Pennzoil European Formula Ultra 5W-30*
•Quaker State European Formula Ultra 5W-30*
•ELF Excellium 229.5 5W-30* Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5W-401
•Valvoline SynPower MST 5W-30*
* Not approved for use in AMG engines.
NOTE: As of model year 2007 diesel engines must only use 229.51 approved engine oil.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 510
Likes: 3
From: san jose, ca
2002 C32 1987 190E 2.3 334K miles and going
The answer is "it depends". If it meets MB spec, then sure, it's fine. If it doesn’t meet the spec, you may want to look at the data sheet. Specifically, the cSt rating at 100°C (normal operating temperature). You may want to also compare the warmup numbers 40°C. That's what will tell you weather the oil is hard on bearings. Exxon Mobil provides data sheets for most of their oils. I don't see one listed for "High Mileage" 5W-40.
Here is a very basic web page on why some oils are better choices than others.
Here is a very basic web page on why some oils are better choices than others.
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
2007 E63
There is a post on AMG Private Lounge board that is responded to by "AMG Information"...basically the AMG moderator... it says:
"Thank you very much for your post. This occurs as the automotive fluid standards have changed in the meantime (in May 2008)
AMG recommends the use of the following oils:
- Mobil 1 5W-40 for M156 engine (63er models)
- Mobil 1 0W-40 all other AMG engines (as well the AMG diesel engines that was used for the C 30 AMG)
- Mobil 1 5W-50 SLR engine
Before that change, the Mobil 1 0W-40 was used for the 63 models as well.
We hope that this information helps.
Best regards
AMG Private Lounge Team"
http://www.mercedes-amg.com/privatel...ecommends+oils
"Thank you very much for your post. This occurs as the automotive fluid standards have changed in the meantime (in May 2008)
AMG recommends the use of the following oils:
- Mobil 1 5W-40 for M156 engine (63er models)
- Mobil 1 0W-40 all other AMG engines (as well the AMG diesel engines that was used for the C 30 AMG)
- Mobil 1 5W-50 SLR engine
Before that change, the Mobil 1 0W-40 was used for the 63 models as well.
We hope that this information helps.
Best regards
AMG Private Lounge Team"
http://www.mercedes-amg.com/privatel...ecommends+oils
Senior Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 302
Likes: 0
From: California
E63 AMG
Unless you're part of the Mercedes Engine Design team, we may never know the real reason, but my gut tells me that the reason for also recommending 5w40 may have something to do with some of the 156 engines having that rattle issue due to the different metals.
