gt4awd

The link initially describes a specific formulation of carbon fiber. That is what I'm referring to. Carbon fiber-reinforced polymer or carbon fiber-reinforced plastic (CFRP or CRP). This material is used often in Aerospace structure. I consider this to be solid carbon fiber. It is an epoxy compound that can be shaped in molds, and does not require a base such as fiberglass. This is used in the LFA. That is why I mentioned the LFA... It is 65% CFRP. Lexus is selling for nearly $400k. At that price the company makes no profit. Mainly due to use of CFRP.

I understand the carbon fiber used on our lip spoilers, diffusers, etc, is carbon fiber overlayed on fiberglass. This however is not. That's what I've tried to discuss here. I guess we can consider it off topic, and I understand your point of view. I hope you understand now what I'm talking about when I say solid carbon fiber.

FrankW

the spoilers etc are not overlays. they are wet-layed carbon fiber with fiber glass back. depends on the craftsmanship they are made thick or thin.

there's nothing called solid CF. The CFRP is layers and layers carbon fiber cloth layed into a mold and then high pressure and high temp baked. it's how the F1 car cockpit are made and how the SLR, Enzo, Carrera GT are made. The epoxy compound is laid into the cloth when they are made. nothing is solid until they are layed and baked.

Autotechnica

My point was that carbon fiber must always use a fiberglass base. There is no such thing as solid carbon fiber. You have to take a look at the manufacturing process in order to understand. You can't roll a peice of cloth over nothing to form a shape, it has to be applied to something before it can reinforce that structure. You could say that carbon fiber is just a stronger version of fiberglass. However, to say that it's not real carbon fiber because it contains fiberglass as a base is incorrect. At any rate, quality and strength of either one of these materials has everything to do with quality of materials, craftmanship and the actual materials being used. It's pointless to debate what is stronger than what. A CF peice that contains more layers of CF could easily be weaker than a properly made peice of fiberglass. I think a lot of people don't understand how strong fiberglass really is. There's too many cheap ricer body kits out there made of poor quality fiberglass. That's a very poor example of the materials abilities.

Bry

MIKESV8

correct and it really depends on the application you are going for. i've personally made fiberglasses subwoofer enclosures custom fit for cars and the way you start is with just simple tape. that's pretty much the base. then you put some resin and start laying out pieces of cloth and then just keep on overlaying until you have your desired thickness. with a full almost 1/2" thick fiberglass box, it's still a very very light application and i was surprised of how light it was, but the main difference between fiberglass and CF is that you need less layers with the CF to make it as strong as the fiberglass, it's just a big pain in the @$$ to make.

gt4awd

Overlay is the incorrect word to use I guess. They do call the sticker type overlay... Was saying I know it's layered carbon fiber, and resin on a base.
So it's the same layering process just higher quality and more involved with stronger finished product?

If anything we are getting some good information about fiberglass...

I did research the LFA, and it was described as having a new advanced carbon fiber structure. I guess this isn't the case?

FrankW

CFRP does not involve fiberglass. They are layers of carbon fiber cloths pressure molded and then baked to allow the resin to hold them together. if you cut away the chassi on the cockpit of the LFA, SLR, ENZO, Carrera GT etc. you will see that.

cfrp products are much more expensive to make then the typical wet-lay or dry-carbon products. dry-carbon products are usually only 2-3 layers at most. cfrp I have a r/c off-road buggy that has the cfrp chassi and i can't even tell how many layers they put into them. r/c itself was like $160-170 ...the cfrp chassi was like $100 LOL...

RLx02

You don't always need a fiberglass base. You can have a part that is all carbon fiber + epoxy. The cheap parts are a fiberglass part with maybe 1 layer of CF on top of it to give it the CF look.

For example take a look at this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgD9oVw3GJw

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAdVO8Rkv6c


No fiberglass used.