Factory Spare Wheel/Tire with Spacer?
07-16-2004, 10:07 AM
#26
MBWorld Fanatic!
Originally Posted by Prasith32
cyncarvin,
Thanks for the information about the wheels. These will be track only wheels and maybe double up as winter wheels but they won't be driven much. What do you mean by a hub centering ring? How does that look when compared our amg wheels. Does it not sit flush on the hub? Also since its the track minor vibration is ok but I want a perfect snug fit. Also safety is pretty important and I don't want a wheel bending because I chose to be a little aggressive through a corner or braked late into a concrete patch (that chunked my toyo's pretty good on my last track event).
I would like to hear from steve how the construction of the wheels are as he usually doesn't leave out any details
.
I like the AMG wheels and that is what I have been using for the track however it will not work with a brake upgrade and once I decide between stoptech or the brembo's I'll need new wheels. I saw those pics of steve's car and I must say those stoptechs look awesome. Especially the rear.
My requirements for a 18" wheel are cheap, strong, and light.
Some say that those choices are similar to the choices available in a woman - available, beautiful, sane.
Unfortunately in both it seems that you can only pick 2 out of the 3
Prasith
Thanks for the information about the wheels. These will be track only wheels and maybe double up as winter wheels but they won't be driven much. What do you mean by a hub centering ring? How does that look when compared our amg wheels. Does it not sit flush on the hub? Also since its the track minor vibration is ok but I want a perfect snug fit. Also safety is pretty important and I don't want a wheel bending because I chose to be a little aggressive through a corner or braked late into a concrete patch (that chunked my toyo's pretty good on my last track event).
I would like to hear from steve how the construction of the wheels are as he usually doesn't leave out any details
.I like the AMG wheels and that is what I have been using for the track however it will not work with a brake upgrade and once I decide between stoptech or the brembo's I'll need new wheels. I saw those pics of steve's car and I must say those stoptechs look awesome. Especially the rear.
My requirements for a 18" wheel are cheap, strong, and light.
Some say that those choices are similar to the choices available in a woman - available, beautiful, sane.
Unfortunately in both it seems that you can only pick 2 out of the 3
Prasith
I did not realize you were running a brake upgrade as you said you sold your Brembo kit you had already purchased for your car. You could always get a 332mm StopTech kit that will fit under the OEM wheels. It will out brake the OEM brakes by a mile but this leaves you more room for wheel clearance issues. And trust me getting a big wheel to fit with the Carlssons set to a 13.0 ride height is not easy! But we cant comment of how the 332mm kit would compare to the 355mm kit (I hope these rotor size quotes I am giving out are correct. Its early and I just rolled out of bed -- balance bar has not kicked in yet!).
Anyhow.. Steve should be posting soon. Stay tuned for a 1000 word post! But don’t plan on buying these wheels. Hub centering rings are rings that go inside the center bore for the wheel to make the wheel fiit around the center of the hub on a MB. They make it one size and then put a metal ring in the middle to make it fit. In the end this leads to issues with safety and fitment for a metal ring has difference thermal expansion characteristics that a wheel so the ring can pop out of self destruct during an extended track day. Does not happen often but I would not want to cut a corner with track wheels!
Good Luck!
07-16-2004, 10:52 AM
#27
Hey, stop the activity on this thread. I am supposed to be talking to myself here...
OK, I have a few questions. Why do you want to own three sets of wheels for this car? You have the HRE's and the stock's which should serve you well. I will assume that you don't want to run the HRE's at the track for fear of damage, but if it was me I would run them for both street and track and not worry about it. The HRE's are stronger than the stock wheels and most others and are low in weight. As for the brake issue, were/are you having problems with braking at the track with the stock brakes? If you are not having any fade issues, then don't bother with the upgrade and save your money. If you want better brake feel and extended brake performance at the track, try a better race pad for the track. If you must have the brake upgrade, you have two choices.
Why are you going to buy another brake upgrade if you already have one in a box in the garage? I can't remember, but the Brembo kit does not fit you wheels because the offset is wrong? The Brembo caliper should not be much wider/deeper than the stock caliper in terms of spoke clearance. How much space do you have between the stock caliper and the HRE inside spoke when mounted? If you want a 14" kit, then keep you Brembo kit and have HRE adjust your wheels to fit. You will also need to run 18" wheels at the track if you plan on having two sets of wheels/tires. I would suggest that you stick with 17's and possibly the stock 17's for the track. What do you dislike about these wheels at the track? You can run a greater selection of racing tires and I would recommend the Toyo RA-1's in 235 45 17 and 255 40 17. Many other combinations with other manufacturers will work as well. In regards to the 245 question, I believe no 245 40 18 tire will fit an 8.5" rim without rubbing or the necessity of rolling the front fenders. However, a 245 35 18 should work as the mounted section width of this tire size is approximately the same as a 235 40 18, which makes me think that the upgrade is useless and provides a rolling circumference differential greater than .50" from the 265 rears. If you still want a brake upgrade, I would buy a 332 kit for the front which will fit most 17" wheels. I am driving the 355 kit to the point of EBD engagement and tire adhesion limits with absolutely no fade whatsoever repeatedly and purposely to test the braking capabilities of the system. Most will not brake as agressively as I do and I feel if I had the 332 kit on the front, they would perform just as well without fade.
As for track wheels, assuming that you are not willing to run the HRE's or Stock, I would not recommend the Flik wheel for track events as an improvement over what you already have. The adapter ring has its concerns as does any spacer usage, which I am not as vocal about as others in its use, but the real concern is the build integrity of the wheel. Many aftermarket and replica wheel are made to fit a wide assortment of vehicles. To do this the manufacturer makes the wheel in generic forms that are drilled out to fit a particular application's center bore and lug diameter and pattern. Any of these wheels are inferior to a purpose build wheel for a specific car. There are inherent weaknesses within the generic wheel that can't be removed due to the multi-application nature of their fitment. I cannot confirm the construction type of this wheel, although they are light. Most cast wheels that are light are prone to bending, especially at track event and I would not recommend them for this application. My OZ and Racing Dynamics wheels on my BMW were repaired over a dozen times due to their soft nature of the metal, not only at the track but in the street as well due to pot holes. The ideal wheel would be one with the proper offset in a one piece forged design that are light in weight, require no spacer, and accomodate a larger brake upgrade. The only wheel that does all this is the RENNtech monolite and I am very pleased with their fitment and performance.
OK, I have a few questions. Why do you want to own three sets of wheels for this car? You have the HRE's and the stock's which should serve you well. I will assume that you don't want to run the HRE's at the track for fear of damage, but if it was me I would run them for both street and track and not worry about it. The HRE's are stronger than the stock wheels and most others and are low in weight. As for the brake issue, were/are you having problems with braking at the track with the stock brakes? If you are not having any fade issues, then don't bother with the upgrade and save your money. If you want better brake feel and extended brake performance at the track, try a better race pad for the track. If you must have the brake upgrade, you have two choices.
Why are you going to buy another brake upgrade if you already have one in a box in the garage? I can't remember, but the Brembo kit does not fit you wheels because the offset is wrong? The Brembo caliper should not be much wider/deeper than the stock caliper in terms of spoke clearance. How much space do you have between the stock caliper and the HRE inside spoke when mounted? If you want a 14" kit, then keep you Brembo kit and have HRE adjust your wheels to fit. You will also need to run 18" wheels at the track if you plan on having two sets of wheels/tires. I would suggest that you stick with 17's and possibly the stock 17's for the track. What do you dislike about these wheels at the track? You can run a greater selection of racing tires and I would recommend the Toyo RA-1's in 235 45 17 and 255 40 17. Many other combinations with other manufacturers will work as well. In regards to the 245 question, I believe no 245 40 18 tire will fit an 8.5" rim without rubbing or the necessity of rolling the front fenders. However, a 245 35 18 should work as the mounted section width of this tire size is approximately the same as a 235 40 18, which makes me think that the upgrade is useless and provides a rolling circumference differential greater than .50" from the 265 rears. If you still want a brake upgrade, I would buy a 332 kit for the front which will fit most 17" wheels. I am driving the 355 kit to the point of EBD engagement and tire adhesion limits with absolutely no fade whatsoever repeatedly and purposely to test the braking capabilities of the system. Most will not brake as agressively as I do and I feel if I had the 332 kit on the front, they would perform just as well without fade.
As for track wheels, assuming that you are not willing to run the HRE's or Stock, I would not recommend the Flik wheel for track events as an improvement over what you already have. The adapter ring has its concerns as does any spacer usage, which I am not as vocal about as others in its use, but the real concern is the build integrity of the wheel. Many aftermarket and replica wheel are made to fit a wide assortment of vehicles. To do this the manufacturer makes the wheel in generic forms that are drilled out to fit a particular application's center bore and lug diameter and pattern. Any of these wheels are inferior to a purpose build wheel for a specific car. There are inherent weaknesses within the generic wheel that can't be removed due to the multi-application nature of their fitment. I cannot confirm the construction type of this wheel, although they are light. Most cast wheels that are light are prone to bending, especially at track event and I would not recommend them for this application. My OZ and Racing Dynamics wheels on my BMW were repaired over a dozen times due to their soft nature of the metal, not only at the track but in the street as well due to pot holes. The ideal wheel would be one with the proper offset in a one piece forged design that are light in weight, require no spacer, and accomodate a larger brake upgrade. The only wheel that does all this is the RENNtech monolite and I am very pleased with their fitment and performance.
07-16-2004, 04:55 PM
#28
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ah hah,
Steve has returned to reclaim his thread and shoo us vagabonds away
Though I must say I am a bit concerned about the brevity of your posts of late 
The HRE wheels are great but there are a couple of problems with using this for track tires. I took it to the track for a 2 day extended driving event and they looked a mess afterwards. Being a detail oriented freak that didnt' go over too well. I completely went through a new set of the Porterfield R4E's and guess where all that dust ended up. Not to mention the extreme heat generated is not that great for the clearcoat center. For 5k a set I don't want to be putting them through that unless I am going to be winning some money at the track. Who knows when that will happen
The reason I want 18's are because I want to do a brake upgrade - brembo or stoptech. I am a little weary about adding spacers when I am tracking the car. I know it is safe and as long as it is quality spacers like H&R or the like I should be fine but I still have reservations.
The stock braking system is good and I am very happy with the Porterfield R4E's - will try the r4's next. The braking is great and realistically I don't expect to brake any harder than I do with a BBK. Also in terms of fade it is perfectly adequate for larger tracks. I was able to run all day at Summit Point with only minor fade because the long straights cooled off my brakes sufficiently.
However on smaller tracks like New Hampshire and Lime Rock which is where I spend most of my time it fades pretty quickly. My brake pedal is almost completely soft by the end of a 20 min session. I am not able to do any kind of extended sessions without taking a few lazy laps in betweeen. Part of the reason is because I am notoriously hard on the brakes (trying not to get into ABS so much now). BTW everybody that has been in my car has been impressed with the stopping power of this car. Also they thinkg I am
to brake so late. The next step is the r4 brake pad and then maybe a nice slotted rotor from brembo. I will see how that helps.
I have a nice Brembo upgrade sitting in my garage but I don't want to put it on until I figure out a few things. First of all I want to see how good I can make the stock system by changing to aftermarket rotors and running race pads. Then maybe some SS lines. After that if I am not happy I will throw my brembo's on.
The reservations I have about the brembo kit is that it is the front only. First of all I am a little scared by how the rear end behaves during heavy braking. I think that the c32 could use a little more braking power in the rear. I am not sure what changing the front and leaving the rear alone would do to this equation. Ideally I would like to buy the rear brembo kit too but I am a cheap ******* and I want the best for my money and I think the stoptechs will be cheaper if I go front and rear. So I can either sell my brembo's and get the full stoptech kit or get the rear brembo or stay stock. Those are my choices right now.
So back to the overall question on hand. I want some freaking track wheels already so I can mess around with my brake upgrades. How much are the renntech wheels? How about the BBS RA wheels that evosport put on. Ben, Brad can you comment on the strength of those wheels and ability to accomodate BBK. I need some wheels anyways for street use since my HRE's will be out of commission for a month or so getting repaired.
Ah so many choices I wish I could just pick one and be happy.
Prasith
Steve has returned to reclaim his thread and shoo us vagabonds away
Though I must say I am a bit concerned about the brevity of your posts of late The HRE wheels are great but there are a couple of problems with using this for track tires. I took it to the track for a 2 day extended driving event and they looked a mess afterwards. Being a detail oriented freak that didnt' go over too well. I completely went through a new set of the Porterfield R4E's and guess where all that dust ended up. Not to mention the extreme heat generated is not that great for the clearcoat center. For 5k a set I don't want to be putting them through that unless I am going to be winning some money at the track. Who knows when that will happen
The reason I want 18's are because I want to do a brake upgrade - brembo or stoptech. I am a little weary about adding spacers when I am tracking the car. I know it is safe and as long as it is quality spacers like H&R or the like I should be fine but I still have reservations.
The stock braking system is good and I am very happy with the Porterfield R4E's - will try the r4's next. The braking is great and realistically I don't expect to brake any harder than I do with a BBK. Also in terms of fade it is perfectly adequate for larger tracks. I was able to run all day at Summit Point with only minor fade because the long straights cooled off my brakes sufficiently.
However on smaller tracks like New Hampshire and Lime Rock which is where I spend most of my time it fades pretty quickly. My brake pedal is almost completely soft by the end of a 20 min session. I am not able to do any kind of extended sessions without taking a few lazy laps in betweeen. Part of the reason is because I am notoriously hard on the brakes (trying not to get into ABS so much now). BTW everybody that has been in my car has been impressed with the stopping power of this car. Also they thinkg I am
to brake so late. The next step is the r4 brake pad and then maybe a nice slotted rotor from brembo. I will see how that helps.I have a nice Brembo upgrade sitting in my garage but I don't want to put it on until I figure out a few things. First of all I want to see how good I can make the stock system by changing to aftermarket rotors and running race pads. Then maybe some SS lines. After that if I am not happy I will throw my brembo's on.
The reservations I have about the brembo kit is that it is the front only. First of all I am a little scared by how the rear end behaves during heavy braking. I think that the c32 could use a little more braking power in the rear. I am not sure what changing the front and leaving the rear alone would do to this equation. Ideally I would like to buy the rear brembo kit too but I am a cheap ******* and I want the best for my money and I think the stoptechs will be cheaper if I go front and rear. So I can either sell my brembo's and get the full stoptech kit or get the rear brembo or stay stock. Those are my choices right now.
So back to the overall question on hand. I want some freaking track wheels already so I can mess around with my brake upgrades. How much are the renntech wheels? How about the BBS RA wheels that evosport put on. Ben, Brad can you comment on the strength of those wheels and ability to accomodate BBK. I need some wheels anyways for street use since my HRE's will be out of commission for a month or so getting repaired.
Ah so many choices I wish I could just pick one and be happy.
Prasith
07-17-2004, 02:50 PM
#30
Given your requirements of 18" wheel diameter, no hubcentric rings or spacers, and a BBK, there unfortunately is very little to choose from, and in fact almost nothing right off the shelf. In addition, R compound tires in 235/265 are just as scarce.
The C32 is not a popular tuner car as most people upgraded to the AMG version of the W203 so they would not have to add aftermarket parts and drive it right out of the box. Even more rare is the owner that wants to upgrade the existing 345mm front brakes. Which leaves us stranded on our own little island. Although most MB tuners make wheels for our cars, they are heavy and some require the use of hubcentric adapter rings. The RENNtech wheel could be the only wheel available that fits the bill without going to custom two or three piece wheels. Although the RENNtech is a custom made wheel specific to RENNtech's specifications made by a quality wheel manufacturer that produces high end wheels for other speciality markets. The other choice is to do what you did and custom specifiy a wheel from HRE. There are other three piece wheel manufacturers that can do the same. Fikse is another high quality manufacturer that can make a wheel for the car. The FM10 is an all time favorite classic mesh wheel of mine. In any circumstance, you will be spending $600 - $1,500 per wheel to accomodate your needs, and this is unfortunate, but a reality to modifying a MB.
I don't believe that any of the AMG wheels in 7.5/8.5 will fit the front and clear the caliper without a spacer, but it is worth a try. Order one wheel in any of the 7.5" widths from Tirerack. Test fit it without mounting a tire on it. An 18" diameter will accomodate the Brembo 355mm rotor and caliper. As for caliper width, if you have at least 5mm width between the stock AMG caliper and the back side of the spoke, you shoud be fine, but I would mount one side of the BBK just to make sure. With the right offset in a 7.5" width, it just may work. If it doesn't fit, you can return the wheel for a full refund minus shipping charges back and you get to keep the lug bolts for free! As for the BBS RA, I really like that wheel and a new CH style wheel will also be available for our cars. I don't think without any body/fender modification you can run 265's on the rear with the rear 9.5" wheel having an offset of 32mm, although it may work due to the great variance in body panel fitment across the C32 production. 255's will be no problem. As for the front 8.5's, a 225 will fit fine, but a 235 will be tight with an offset of 30mm. Again, due to front fender tolerances, it may work on you car, but it definately would not have worked on mine on the passenger side without extensive fender work.
Do you still have the stock 17's? Just use these for now before you put your BBK on. Run any of the R compounds in various sizes and be happy for now as the BBK will require a significant investment for track wheels that are used for a limited time. I understand your concern for wheel appearance, but if I was you, I would just run the HRE's for both the street and track and accept some cosmetic damage as part of game.
Where were your T1-S's chunking?
The C32 is not a popular tuner car as most people upgraded to the AMG version of the W203 so they would not have to add aftermarket parts and drive it right out of the box. Even more rare is the owner that wants to upgrade the existing 345mm front brakes. Which leaves us stranded on our own little island. Although most MB tuners make wheels for our cars, they are heavy and some require the use of hubcentric adapter rings. The RENNtech wheel could be the only wheel available that fits the bill without going to custom two or three piece wheels. Although the RENNtech is a custom made wheel specific to RENNtech's specifications made by a quality wheel manufacturer that produces high end wheels for other speciality markets. The other choice is to do what you did and custom specifiy a wheel from HRE. There are other three piece wheel manufacturers that can do the same. Fikse is another high quality manufacturer that can make a wheel for the car. The FM10 is an all time favorite classic mesh wheel of mine. In any circumstance, you will be spending $600 - $1,500 per wheel to accomodate your needs, and this is unfortunate, but a reality to modifying a MB.
I don't believe that any of the AMG wheels in 7.5/8.5 will fit the front and clear the caliper without a spacer, but it is worth a try. Order one wheel in any of the 7.5" widths from Tirerack. Test fit it without mounting a tire on it. An 18" diameter will accomodate the Brembo 355mm rotor and caliper. As for caliper width, if you have at least 5mm width between the stock AMG caliper and the back side of the spoke, you shoud be fine, but I would mount one side of the BBK just to make sure. With the right offset in a 7.5" width, it just may work. If it doesn't fit, you can return the wheel for a full refund minus shipping charges back and you get to keep the lug bolts for free! As for the BBS RA, I really like that wheel and a new CH style wheel will also be available for our cars. I don't think without any body/fender modification you can run 265's on the rear with the rear 9.5" wheel having an offset of 32mm, although it may work due to the great variance in body panel fitment across the C32 production. 255's will be no problem. As for the front 8.5's, a 225 will fit fine, but a 235 will be tight with an offset of 30mm. Again, due to front fender tolerances, it may work on you car, but it definately would not have worked on mine on the passenger side without extensive fender work.
Do you still have the stock 17's? Just use these for now before you put your BBK on. Run any of the R compounds in various sizes and be happy for now as the BBK will require a significant investment for track wheels that are used for a limited time. I understand your concern for wheel appearance, but if I was you, I would just run the HRE's for both the street and track and accept some cosmetic damage as part of game.
Where were your T1-S's chunking?
07-21-2004, 01:38 AM
#31
I have been test driving the Flik Lex wheel for the last couple of days. No vibration at any speed, but I am disappointed with the cheap plastic hubcentric ring provided. At this price I guess you can't expect a steel or aluminum ring? The adapter ring is also about 67.5+mm in diameter so it can wiggle a little when placed over the hub snout. Makes installing the first lug bolt a little difficult. In addition the snout end fits flush with the cut out of the hub opening making the end cap almost impossible to fit without falling out and the loose tolerance of the ring makes the wheel fit and favor one side of the diameter of the hub more than the other until you try to center it. Under high speed and repeated track torture, I believe the plastic ring will disintegrate and no longer provide a hubcentric fitment.
As for their appearance, I love the look of this wheel, especially the color. It is not really charcoal, nor black, but more of a brownish titanium, like a shade darker than the Volvo T-5 titanium wheel of past. It looks great on a silver car, and the Gold brake caliper's are very complimentary to the color of the wheel.
There is about 7mm of inside clearance with coilovers and about 12mm clearance from the caliper to the backside of the spoke. The wheel/tire sits in much more than the RENNtech wheel in an 8.5 with 235's and an offset of 32. Like the stock AMG wheel, the spokes on the Lex stick out beyond the lip of the wheel, which will surely obtain curb rash damage to those drivers not paying attention. Already, the spokes are somewhat scratched by placing the wheel upside down in the spare tire compartment.
As for a track wheel, they are cheap but could work if you can't afford any more to spend. You would have to run 8's all around and could get away with running 235's in front and 245's or 255's in the rear. 245's in front won't clear the coilover tube, but will clear the stock AMG struts for those that have not upgraded to coilovers. Then you could run 245's at all four corners or 245/255's front/rear. If the offset was changed to 32 on this 8" wheel, you could accomodate 245's in front with coilovers and still clear the fender lip without modification. I will post pics soon.
As for their appearance, I love the look of this wheel, especially the color. It is not really charcoal, nor black, but more of a brownish titanium, like a shade darker than the Volvo T-5 titanium wheel of past. It looks great on a silver car, and the Gold brake caliper's are very complimentary to the color of the wheel.
There is about 7mm of inside clearance with coilovers and about 12mm clearance from the caliper to the backside of the spoke. The wheel/tire sits in much more than the RENNtech wheel in an 8.5 with 235's and an offset of 32. Like the stock AMG wheel, the spokes on the Lex stick out beyond the lip of the wheel, which will surely obtain curb rash damage to those drivers not paying attention. Already, the spokes are somewhat scratched by placing the wheel upside down in the spare tire compartment.
As for a track wheel, they are cheap but could work if you can't afford any more to spend. You would have to run 8's all around and could get away with running 235's in front and 245's or 255's in the rear. 245's in front won't clear the coilover tube, but will clear the stock AMG struts for those that have not upgraded to coilovers. Then you could run 245's at all four corners or 245/255's front/rear. If the offset was changed to 32 on this 8" wheel, you could accomodate 245's in front with coilovers and still clear the fender lip without modification. I will post pics soon.
07-21-2004, 11:47 AM
#33
The outer edge of the wheel lip is 10mm inside the edge of the exterior fender lip on the Lex wheel. There is only +-1mm clearance with the 8.5" RENNtech wheel with 235 T1-S's.
07-21-2004, 12:24 PM
#34
MBWorld Fanatic!
I knew you were going to do this... but still no 245s in front? Will a bimbo kit suffice?
Also, what is the status of our track set of wheels and tires for the E46 M3? Keep in mind that the E46 can accept 275s in front w/o issues. :p
Also, what is the status of our track set of wheels and tires for the E46 M3? Keep in mind that the E46 can accept 275s in front w/o issues. :p
07-21-2004, 11:23 PM
#35
Funny thing, after driving around town on my daily commute, I could not tell that the spare was on or even that I was running a $70 tire on only one side of the car. Makes you think that maybe all one needs is a set of Kumho 711's (under $300.00 for all four!) for around town driving! This could also be the perfect drifting tire...
The bimbo kit will work with any car. I am currently interviewing potential candidates for the job. As for the 275/285's, maybe my RGR's can serve double duty?
The bimbo kit will work with any car. I am currently interviewing potential candidates for the job. As for the 275/285's, maybe my RGR's can serve double duty?
