smgC32

Although the factory spare fits fine over the rear BBK without any clearance problems, the front is a different story. Due to the narrow width of the factory spare, which does clear the stock AMG brakes and caliper, the upgrade to 355 and the longer profile of the four piston caliper comes in contact with the step up lip of the inner wheel profile. If the wheel is moved out toward the outer fender, the caliper will clear the inside of the 17" spare. I shimmed the spare with cardboard for a test fitment and it worked. So I ordered a 20mm spacer from H&R to provide the clearance needed for the BBK to fit inside the 17" wheel. Unfortunately, an H&R DR Series hubcentric spacer in 20mm's will not fit the hub of a C32 as follows:

The factory hub extension or "snout" is approximately 39mm long with its end cap installed. However the snout is approximately 65mm in diameter for most of its length until it almost reaches the disk hat assembly at which time it tapers up to approximately 66.5mm which is where a typical wheel or spacer will seat itself. The problem occurs with the design of a hubcentric spacer and its interior clearance. The H&R spacer is 31.5mm in total thickness with the hubcentric ring;7.5mm narrower than the snout. Furthermore, the interior clearance of bored 66.5mm width only runs for a total of 18mm, at which time it tapers in to about 63mm which is where is thickens on the outside to create the hubcentric ring at its 66.5mm diameter to accomodate the wheel. It is at this taper point, 18mm, that prevents the spacer from seating itself flat against the hub surface. This is not a defect from H&R, but a design problem with the W203 hub on the C32. There is too much snout to use a hubcentric spacer from any manufacturer. A 5mm spacer that is not hubcentric will work fine as a shim and create a lugcentric fitment in certain wheel fitment applications like the OZ's, GT3's, and LM's, but is not enough for my application for the spare. A 30mm spacer only has 25mm of clear interior at the required diameter and may prove to be 1-2mm too short. One solution that may work is to stack two 5mm spacers together with the 20mm spacer to make it work. Unfortunately with this arrangement, I will need to use 60mm lug bolts which concerns me. Vadim or others, any input?

Of course the other solution is to just buy another extra spare wheel/tire in 18" and call it a day, at greater cost. Any suggestions as to an inexpensive spare wheel and tire that will fit the C32. Any wheel in a 18" size from 7.5, 8.0, or 8.5" in width that will fit the C32 will also fit my BBK as the caliper does not stick out any further towards the spokes of the wheel than the stock caliper, and the 18" will take care of any interior step up issues. How about BBS's knockoff S3's at $209.00 each? Any one have a used damaged wheel that will fit? What factory wheels across the MB line in an 18" will fit the 5/112, 12x1.5 pitch requirement. Any input is appreciated.

smgC32

Just got the one ASA ST3 wheel today and tried it on. It is 18x8 ET25. I was worried about the offset but the guy at tire rack said it will work fine and is approved for the C32. BTW, the hole diameter is about 15.25mm and a cone seat, and ASA provides five lugs and a center cap for $209.00. I have found that most aftermarket wheels for Mercedes 5x112 pattern come in only one hole bore of between 15.0-15.mm to accomodate the 14mm diameter lug bolts that the larger Class cars have. Most resellers will tell you that with a cone seat, unlike a ball seat that is standard with MB, it is not a problem to use a 12mm diameter lug bolt with a larger hole. The stock C Class wheel and spare has a hole bore of about 12.75mm.

The stock spare is 17x7.5 ET36. My RENNtech's are 18x8.5 ET32. This ASA wheel sticks out farther than my RENNtech wheel and clears the caliper by a fingers width and clears the strut tube by about the same amount. There is no need for a 25mm offset for this application in a 8" rim. A 25mm offset on a 8" rim is roughly 2mm farther out than a 32mm 8.5" rim. Mounted without a tire, it looks much farther out. Another problem is that with the smaller offset number, the mounting pad is thicker and does not allow the factory spare basket to sit properly and clear the flat carpet liner in the trunk.

There are not very many choices, especially with the BBK. It is interesting to note that Tirerack has the same wheel for the C320 in a 18x8, but with an ET of 37! They say it will not fit, but I believe it will. An 8" rim with an offset of 37mm is about 1mm short on the inside compared to an 8.5" rim with an offset of 32. Inside clearance will be close with a 235 but I will run a 225 on the spare and I could have an additional 12mm of outside clearance.

The only other choices I have found are the Flix Lex at 18x8 ET35 which will fit fine according to the math and they are only about $150.00 each. For a factory choice, there is the Styling III and IV AMG wheels for the C Class in 18x7.5 ET37, or the same styles for the E Class in 18x8 ET30. The only difference is the hole bore, but the ball seat of the E Class wheel could be problamatic with the 12mm diameter lug bolt. Other choices that may fit without Tirerack wanting to sell them to me are the C Class wheels; MM11/3 at 18x8 ET35 for $199.00 and the Sprot Edition Fox6's at 18x8 ET35 for $179.00 each. I think that the C Class 7.5" width will be very tight with the BBK.

There has been a lot of discussion as to why other than C Class wheels don't fit the C Class, but there has never been an explanation as to exactly why. I can only assume that the 12mm ball seat lug bolt does not fit well in the larger diameter ball seat hole. The aftermarket companies get away with this because they use cone seat lug bolts. Anyone have any ideas on this?

smgC32

I can only assume that those who have upgraded to a BBK on any W203 are having the same problem I am having. Or all of those who have upgraded have not realized that their spare wheel/tire in the trunk will not fit the front of their car!

I returned the ASA's today and ordered the Flix wheel mounted and balanced with a 225 40 18, tax and shipping, all for under $300.00. The 35mm offset will be a much better fit for fender clearance. They will be here next week and will report back then.

Has anyone upgraded to the Style III or IV C Class 7.5x18 ET37 wheel? The 8x18 ET30 E Class wheel? Do either fit over the stock AMG front brakes, BBK's?

CynCarvin32

You now talk to your self in your threads! Very nice! I still think you should work for European Car being that you are such a great writer.

I had to post something so the thread had an actually second person post. Any how just stick with your new cheap wheel. That should work well. WHere are your new Dunlop Tires? We need a second track event! Lets get moving on that!

smgC32

I forgot to mention, the Flix wheels come with a standard center bore of 71.3mm. The line of wheels is designed to work with custom adapter rings bored out to fit each application across a range of vehicle manufacturers. In addition, all MB applications come with 15.25mm lug bores so they can accomodate all models within the MB line, whether 12 or 14mm bolts, as the cone seat of the lug bolt can adjust to the tappered seat within the wheel/adapter. Interesting design, although not as good as custom for a particular application like my RENNtechs! I believe other wheels use this method of fitment to save costs like the SSR GT series. No need to post... I am enjoying my peaceful isolation within this thread. I am trying to win the most posts without a response award.

smgC32

And by the way, make sure you carry a set of 5 spare wheel lug bolts in the proper size. The stock wheel bolts are the wrong length and any aftermarket wheel upgrade will also have the wrong length, and possibly the wrong seat. The proper spare wheel lugs bolts are 12x1.5x39mm ball seat.

CynCarvin32

Wow he is still going! Can we get an award for Steve please? I mean who else can post 4 posts in a row with no reponses from other board users? This is great. You have been hanging out with the people in along the ocean blvd. park for a tad to long Steve. But I must respect your desire to help others find a spare wheel to work with a big break upgade.

schwarzwagen

Steve, count me in on the next track event, I got the word from Eric. If I can't find a suitable car, I can be the pit *****.

CynCarvin32

HEHE

Every good race team needs a good ****** to chill in the pits LOL. You know im messing around!

hmmm track day.... got to lower my time to a Gaperini like time!!! Time to throw out my whimpy 1:38's and throw down a 1:36! I hope

Prasith32

steve,

Sorry to bust in your thread here but I had some questions about the wheels.

I know you are looking at these wheels as a spare tire but what do you think of them for track tires.

With the ST3 wheel do you think that since it is sticking out that there will be fender clearance issues with a R comp? I couldn't understand all that stuff you were talking about with offset so please explain in terms of rub or no rub Also did you get a chance to weigh this wheel?

Also a quick question about the flix wheels. Who makes these? What are the weights of these wheels. Are they strong and durable. What sizes? 8 fr, 9 rr?

I need track wheels. Thanks much.

Prasith

schwarzwagen

never gonna happen, Salvadori Gaperini is the master. :p

Zeppelin

Speaking of track days here is another cheap one at Streeets of Willow July 10th and 11th. http://www.speedventures.net/7-10-2004_event.asp

CynCarvin32

Have faith my borther! Its just driving!

Hey Zepp, are you going on the 10th? These track days are in quick order. No that this is a bad thing but poor Steves tires.... they wear out really quickly

All in the name of fun....

Zeppelin

CynCarvin32 - Not sure if I will go. I would like to take the CRX out and see how much quicker it is than the C32 Might just wait for the next Redline Event in September. If you and Steve go, it might make me change my mind.

smgC32

We are going to the Streets this Saturday with SpeedtrialUSA and taking both cars. Can't make next weekend. Let's look at the schedule for the rest of the year and take the CRX. I'll bring the MINI S!

As for the Toyo T1-S's for a track tire...I am looking for another rubber to wear, as these have "broken" prematurely causing release of compound at the outer edge before the session is over. The "V" grove is too big in these tires and needs a surgical lifting to tighten the grove to keep them from squirming which produces a vague sensation. Common on something with a large grove that produces an abundance of fluid evacuation. A tighter grove is always better, and preferably one that runs vertical in orientation which helps keep you going in the right direction. Hopefully the Corsa's will go the distance, or my new SPSSR's on the boat and on there way to my wheels.

Prasith32

steve,

any thoughts on the flix wheels? Have you recieved these? Do you think they would make good track wheels? Will you need spacers? The price is right on those. Thanks.

Prasith

smgC32

My Flik's were supposed to be here yesterday. I called Edge Racing, the dealer in Florida, and they said that they have not shipped yet and they were still looking for one wheel in a broken pallet up high in the storage room. He then said that it should be here by next friday. Not a good start. No phone call to say that they were delayed. I just hope the guy will keep his word and have them arrive by next friday, which does me no good this Saturday if I get a flat or wear through another set of Toyo's at the track!

The Lex wheels weighs 22lbs in a 18x8 size. The offset is 35 which is perfect for an 8" width and will fit nicely within the fender and clear the coilover strut tube. No spacers are required according to Edge Racing and they will not only clear the stock AMG caliper, but my Stoptech's as well as Brembo's. As I understand it, the reduction ring to make the wheel hubcentric rests flush within the hub mounting pad of the wheel. I will comment more when, or if, I ever get them.

If anyone has SSR GT1's or GT3's, is there a similar system of fitment for MB applications?

Zeppelin

I've never gone out with SpeedtrialUSA because they require an SA rated helmet. I have a closet full of M rated helmets and can't justify another purchase yet.

Bring on the Mini S, you will still out weigh me by 600lbs.

CynCarvin32

Hey Zepp,

Im glad I read you post last night. I had to run to the store and get a new helmet! Mine was not up to snuff! Steve teched the cars and I had no clue about the requirements! Thanks for the heads up. Sorry you can make it out. We shall meet at a track event soon. Have a great holiday weekend

CynCarvin32

And Steve just called. He rented the Mini S as well (400 miles old!). 3 cars This guy is crazy but its in a good way I would have to say.

Stay tuned for the recap post on Sunday or Monday.

smgC32

Prasith, just buy the new BBS five spoke that Evosport put on their car. Not too expensive and they fit without spacers as well as clearing the brake caliper.

smgC32

I just test fit the Flix and they fit great. The offset provides almost a finger's width between the wheel/tire and the coilover strut tube, and the spoke offset offers almost a finger's width between the StopTech brake caliper and the backside of the spokes. Great fitment for both front and rear. In addition, the 35mm offset provides a deep enough interior that the factory accessory basket will fit within the center of the wheel and can be secured while the carpet deck fits flush on top of the spare! An excellent choice for a spare wheel. And the Kumho 711 was only $70.00 for a total spare wheel/tire package price of $258.00. I got it cheaper because I bought the demo wheel with slight blemishes. An 8" wheel with the proper offset will never rub on the inside or outside and would be my preferred choice of daily driven wheels and they could accomodate 245 rubber! The offset could go more aggressive to 30 or 32mm for a wider stance but the basket would no longer fit for the spare and provide a flush carpet surface.

Prasith32

steve,

that is great news about the flix wheels. I think I may have just found my track wheels. Do you think these wheels would hold up to track use? Do they seem strong? Also do the lug bolts that come with the wheel fit properly or did you have to buy other ones or use the stock ones?

Can you explain to me how I can fit 245's on a narrower wheel when it would rub on a wider wheel? Its not like the tire size will change. Is it because the offset will be different with a wheel of 8.5" (i think you said your renntechs are 32). Also does that mean that if the flix wheels had an offset of 32 or 30 they would not be able to fit the 245's? It doesn't seem to make sense to me logically but so many things in cars aren't logical it seems.

Also where did you get them from? Can you pm me a contact or website? Thanks very much.

Prasith

CynCarvin32

Hey Prasith,

While that wheel may fit the car and it does look ok, I think Steve would agree that its not something he would buy for agressive driving. It uses a hub centering ring and that alone is what turned me away from the SSR GT3's back in the day. When I heard the SSR's used a hub centering ring I ran for the hills. Some people say that is totally safe but I have a friend who had wheels which required that ring and the car always had a terrible vibration (OZ wheels -- not poor quality wheels). Plus the wheel has some other odd characteristics that may make it less strong than another comparable cast wheel.

In the end I ordered the RENNtechs simply because they fit the car with no spacers to clear the brakes and no hub centering ring. After that, Steve chose them over many other wheels as well and they have served him well. One idea may be to get some good looking wheels for the street (dont worry about weight) and then use the AMG's for the track. With the 17's you can buy some nice Toyo RA-1's and this will have the car drive far better than any road tire could provide.

For the stresses of track events I would always want a strong rim. Steve blew through a pot hole at our first track outting and I swear the car should have lost a wheel but all was fine. Strong wheels pay off in the end. I know people with SSR (super soft rims) who dented 3-4 wheels in a year at track events.

Best of luck.

I will let steve give his write up on the wheel with regards to track use. Steve chose the wheel for a cheap spare not a full time racing wheel.

Prasith32

cyncarvin,

Thanks for the information about the wheels. These will be track only wheels and maybe double up as winter wheels but they won't be driven much. What do you mean by a hub centering ring? How does that look when compared our amg wheels. Does it not sit flush on the hub? Also since its the track minor vibration is ok but I want a perfect snug fit. Also safety is pretty important and I don't want a wheel bending because I chose to be a little aggressive through a corner or braked late into a concrete patch (that chunked my toyo's pretty good on my last track event).


I would like to hear from steve how the construction of the wheels are as he usually doesn't leave out any details .

I like the AMG wheels and that is what I have been using for the track however it will not work with a brake upgrade and once I decide between stoptech or the brembo's I'll need new wheels. I saw those pics of steve's car and I must say those stoptechs look awesome. Especially the rear.

My requirements for a 18" wheel are cheap, strong, and light.
Some say that those choices are similar to the choices available in a woman - available, beautiful, sane.

Unfortunately in both it seems that you can only pick 2 out of the 3

Prasith