M&M

Actually the M3 is faster on any track compared to the S4. 4WD gives better traction, not better handling. Traction normally isn't an issue on a track unless it has lots of tight hairpins.

M3 Hockenheim: 1:16.3
S4 Hockenheim: 1:18.1

ldangeli

I got a vid you should watch..

And this is the Euro M3, more Hp and 2 tenths quicker.. in a straight line.

http://www.flixvault.org/topgear_video/114.zip

ldangeli

In respones to Reggid, "who wants AWD"

I know I do. When your spinning out of control due to the mist on the road at 125, I will still be going straight.

M&M

Topgear is an airfield with beacons. Tests weren't even done on the same day.

Have a look at any other mag anywhere in the world. Hell, go onto an Audi forum & ask them, They will admit the M3 is quicker on the track. I think a C32 will also be quicker than the S4.

FrankW

are u saying that the other test like track-challenge are all done on the same day? IMO TopGear test is probably more reputable and accurate then most other magazine. WHY? because they are all done by the same pro driver on the same track even on wet or dry condition. They also give credit to where credit is due by mentioning some car will be quicker if they had run them in dry.

I just watched the BestMotoring Video from Japan where they raced the 3.0 e36 M3, ACS E46 M3 vs a stock looking RX-7, modded S2000, modded Trueno, and the two Bimmer couldn't catch up even w/ more power.

right click and save as

M&M

Well S4 is over 300 pounds heavier than the M3, is much slower on the straights & quattro isn't helping on most corners.

M3 is faster with same pro driver driving both at Hockenheim & the Ring. ALL US mags got better slalom & skidpad numbers on the M3 as well. A few have tested on the track as well & ALL got better lap times in the M3. Most were tested on the same day with the same driver.

There have been 2 occasions where the S4 was quicker:

- Topgear's airfield with beacons. However, not tested on the same day. Also, its not really a track. One section of the field tends to get waterlogged after some rain.

- EVO magazine at Bedford autodrome. However, there were different people driving so that means jack.

I do concede that on a very twisty track, an S4 might make yards with better traction coming out of a tight bend that the M3 might not necessarily make up. However, S4 is too heavy on most other proper tracks like F1 circuits.

Horst van Saurma was 2 seconds faster in a short lap of 1:16 around Hockenheim in an M3. That's a significant difference. M3 was also 11 seconds faster around the Ring with the same driver.

FrankW

F1 circuits...

what normal ppl would have the chance to go on the F1 track...LMAO

YES, TopGear's airfield is not a track, but it's the closest thing between street and track.

reggid

if i'm stupid enough to spin out at 200km/h on a road that is wet where the legal limnit is only 110km/h then i deserve it. Generally i drive to the road and weather conditions and when its wet AWD won't help you brake any better so even if AWD allows you to go a bit faster it just makes it harder to stop. I Pity those those who believe AWD defys the laws of physics, because they'll just end up getting hurt.

Jon200

Yo Frank have you seen the one where they raced E46 M3 SMG, E46 M3 6spd, EVO VII stick, EVO VII GTA, 360 F1 and 360 6spd?

The M3s did pretty poor and the SMG spun out on the track too. Even the 6spd M3 was beaten by the auto EVO.

verdict, you need to put the right driver behind the right car to get the best times around the tracks.

Jon200

The M3 should be faster than the S4, well based on figures anyway.

It only develops one more horsepower than the M3, its a lot heavier and its AWD so the car has to cater for the inherent AWD drive train loss too.

FrankW

I've not seen that one.

those that drives the cars on BestMotoring are ALL PRO drivers in Japan and all of them has winning record behind them. BUT most of the time they ain't really driving it hard like they should instead they usually are just relaxed and talking all the time.

Jon200

Garn San is ALWAYS serious though Frank !

FrankW

you mean the old old guy? I don't reconize their name in English LOL

Jon200

the guy in the S2K was him and the guy in the red 86 was his son

FrankW

yeah, I know.

LOL seriously, that old dude is always more serious...LOL and he usually get's the best car too cuz other guys respect him.

Tsuchya was sad tho, driving his own AE86 w/ little power cuz it's set up for Touge than track.

Jon200

LOL poor Tsuchya, I know a little bit of Jap and he was complaining the whole esp down the main straight

did you see the clip where they tested the M3CSL, Gallardo, Murcielago, 360F1 and NSX-R? Garn San kained everyone in his first two laps til the NSX had cooling problems

steve s

it was a little disappointing the ferrari experienced brake fade...i mean..com'on...

anyway..some of the moves he did with the nsx were quite couragous..even if on r compound tires..

Jon200

what was more interesting is how he took the NSX to the max and beat cars that had almost twice the power

ScottsC55

My thoughts on the M3 vs C55 thing....

C55 vs M3

Scott