Jon200

interesting to see the C55's time at the Ring was exactly the same as the M3s

Trekman

my toy is better than your toy. I have this and you dont! you guys sound like 4 year old! let this supid thing GO! Everyone GET a LIFE!!

M&M

8:15 on a different day:

caliboy

This is great guys thanks fo the entertainment..... I thought this thread was all about whoring, but guess not very interesting. lol

But have you guys considered this.....in a few there will be a new M3 faster than the current one and the c55 and after that there will be a new c55 and then we will hve to argue about which is faster after that. It never ends and never will end.

I will say this though for a sedan vs a coupe the c55 holds its own cause technically -2 doors with similar power should definitely be faster and it is not arguably.

And by BTW where does the Audi 2003-2005 S4 stand in this battle speed wise? 340bhp all wheel drive?

Trekman

M&M you are a PUNK! why dont you just F***ing leave. you need to get BANNED! we dont need people like you In this forum! WE DONT CARE ABOUT BMW M3's if we did we Would BUY one you F***ING *****.

Jon200

I was waiting for you to say something, it shows you have been quietly trolling again and would only reply to something that suits your argument. That article is about the CSL I never knew the M3 was 3.4L

BMW M3 S50

After reading this I just had to join this Forum. It is so great!

I am going to keep this short sweet and to the point;

This argument would have to deal if you are using the car from performance or everyday comfort driving.

For performance the e46 m3 hands down is the winner, There has been a mag. test on the 2 cars head to head and the m3 has beat it in speed in 0-60, 1/4, etc etc. It beat it in braking performance and not to mention the handling.

The problem is the c55 has this great 5.5 V8 but it also has an AUTO trans only and weight a whole lot more then the e46 m3. Which both things are soooo bad when it comes to performance.

For an eveyday car the c55 is a great car offers easy speed and great power as well as comfort but it lacks that soul that the M gives to the driver. That is why the m cars are always ahead of the pack in terms of performance. The greatest thing that always puts a smile on my face is the M3 is a 3.2 with only 333hp and 262 Tq, and it beats the best that MB and audi have to put out. Both Audi and MB had to go to V8's to try to beat the m3 and still cannot.

reggid

BMW and MB are so clever aren't they. The cars are so close, yet so different and appeal to two distinctive target audiences yet people compare them like they are the same. But no matter which is faster or more comfortable they both can coexist and will continue to coexist.

ProjectC55

Thank God no one put a gun to your head and said you had to read the thread.......

reggid

As said earlier this threads upto almost 10,000 views so clearly some people want to know about the main competitor to the C-Class.

Jon200

I disagree, MB and Audi went to V8 mainly because the V8 engines pave way for future development and its a marketing strategy. The current 5.5L V8 is a very tunable NA engine

skahung

I like the C55 alot better even if it's 3 sec slower than the M3...is not always about speed and performance. BMW jacked up there prices on the M3 thinking that is the same class as an AMG, I don't think so.

"When you drive a BMW, you're trying to be somebody....When you drive a MB, you're somebody"

M&M

Jon, 8:15 is the time for the M3 SMG as tested by Autocar. The article is about the CSL, but they wee predicting the lap times compared to the stock M3.

And as for everyone else, I know I'm a bad guy & all that, but let's get back to the subject of M3 vs C55. Here is the SPort Auto comparison as published by Track-challenge & posted by Improviz:

http://www.track-challenge.com/main_...r1=75%26Car2=2

Elasticity (4./5./6.) C55 ----------- M3
80 - 100 Km/h 3,2 s / 3,9 s ---- 2,6 s / 3,4 s
80 - 120 Km/h 6,3 s / 7,9 s ---- 5,2 s / 6,6 s
80 - 160 Km/h 12,8 s / 15,9 s -- 10,9 s / 13,9 s
80 - 180 Km/h 16,3 s / 20,2 s -- 14,1 s / 17,4 s

Now, 80km/h is 50mph. 180km/h is 112.5mph.

So in ALL the rolling runs the M3 was faster. Improviz's theory is correct that the M3 has better traction. But it seems the 6-speed, shorter gearing, lower mass, better power curve at high rpm also benefit the M3 in a rolling run. THis is, of course, subject to the driver being competent.

NOW, I understand it isn't fair to compare a 6-speed with short gearing to a 5-speed with longer gearing. But hey, life's not fair. It's not fair to compare a puny 6 cylinder to an AMG 5.5 V8 either, but that's how each car leaves the factory.

Also bear in mind that at 50mph in 4th (where ALL these roling runs start) the M3 is at 2200rpm. WAY out of powerband. M3 makes peak torque at 4900 rpm & peak power at 7900rpm. Now you are putting it alongside a 5.5 V8 with loads more torque & starting it off at 2200rpm. And yet the M3 pulls away on every run.

As you can see they are pretty even on the standing starts, with the M3 slightly quicker, Looks like the M3 pulls away at higher speeds as well, but that may be a function of gearing as well. Point is, to the uneducated that keep throwing M3's torqueless figures around, torque to the wheels is a different concept to engine torque.

cntlaw

I guess all owners should be happy and proud of their cars being side by side classified as the top performance and most popular sports sedans. Of course, the happiest are the salesman. :p

ProjectC55

LOL! Bruno,so now that you have finally got your car running,especially after spending many many months or years and thousands and thousands of dollars more than I have just to build a stck 95 M3 I guess you're an authority now! When you're ready you can bring your E36 M3 and run my C55 W202 on the hwy and we'll see what you got.Or like I said at first my 332i.I will give you a couple of car lengths with either car to start my friend. Troll on!

Improviz

Only one problem: those runs clearly were not at full throttle.

Here's Car & Driver's test of the C55:

Now, 50-70 mph is 80-112 km/h. This car hit it in 3.2. The Sport Auto test took 3.2 seconds to get from 80-100 km/h, which is 50-62.5 mph...not plausible, especially when you note the following:

Further, 80-160 km/h is given in your numbers as taking 15.9 seconds in the Sport Auto test. And yet above, we see the 0-100 time for the car is given by Car & Driver as 11.3 seconds. And we also see in the Sport Auto test you cite that their 0-160 km/h (= 100mph) time was 11.7 seconds.

So, you're arguing with a straight face that full throttle, the C55 takes between 4.2 and 4.6 seconds longer to get from 50-100 mph (80-160 km/h) than it takes the car to get from 0 to 100 mph???

But wait, there's more: they also list 80-180 km/h times, which would be the 50-112.5 mph time. They give the faster (fourth gear) time for the C55 at 16.3 seconds. But their 0-180 time for the C55 is listed as 14.7 seconds! The Car & Driver car got from 0-120 mph in 16.7!!

Oh, yeah, sure dude...it takes the car only 0.4 seconds more to get from 0-120 mph than it takes it to get from 50-112.5 mph!

Clearly, the numbers NOT done at full throttle, do NOT represent the vehicle's fastest rolling-start speed-to-speed times, and thus do not support your rolling-start argument in any way, shape, or form. Here's what I think is going on:

Unless the C55 has changed dramatically from the CLK55 I own, it will NOT hold fourth or fifth gear, even if shifted there manually, under full throttle. It will downshift (.Btw, could a few of you C55 guys please verify this?). Meaning that in order to perform such a test without the vehicle downshifting, less than full throttle would have to be used. The M3, however, being a manual, could use full throttle.

Which would explain why your test. Which renders it meaningless, particularly given that any true rolling-start race for these two cars from 50 mph would NOT be done starting in fourth gear, into which the C55 shifts at over 100 mph!!

Car & Driver, otoh, does state that their in-gear tests are in kickdown mode w/automatic transmission.

Nice try, but no cigar.

skahung

and the battle continues.........

DbleNckel

I wonder who started this damn thread?!?!? :p

PC Valkyrie

As a relatively new C55 owner, I have to add my 2 cents to this long thread. I had seriously considered the M3 when I was shopping for a new car. Both the C55 and M3 are awesome cars. The performance numbers from the magazines are very similar, so neither car will walk away from the other in any sort of straightline "race". Other variables, like driver skill, response time, etc will probably determine the outcome. In the M3, there are differences in what can be achieved with the 6 speed manual and the SMGII. In the C55, it matters whether the transmission is running in Sport mode, Comfort mode, or Manual mode. In my mind, they are in the same league in terms of acceleration numbers.

Despite similar performance numbers, the 2 cars are different, and I believe they cater to different types of drivers/markets.

The M3 generates its power/torque at higher rpm's. You don't have to rev the engine as high in the C55 to get the power/torque. Even though the slalom numbers and peak g's are similar between the 2 cars, I think the M3 FEELS more secure and confident at the handling limits.

If you track you car (or drive like you're on a track on the streets), you will probably find the M3 to be a "better" car. The difference in handling between the two cars is not noticeable on the streets. In other words, most drivers will never take advantage of the feeling of superior handling in the M3 over the C55. On the other hand, the C55 definitely feels more far more refined than the M3 as a daily driver on the streets. The passing power is effortless because of the low end grunt, and you will still outhandle most cars out there.

AMG cars are about effortless, relaxed high power delivery and confident high speed autobahn cruising, while holding their own on the track/twisties.

M cars are about inspiring confidence and delivering a more tactile experience for the driver. You have to work to make the car perform and it rewards you with a sense of feedback from the steering and suspension. The price is some increased harshness and less refined ride.

Both are great cars. They have different approaches to power delivery and they end up with similar performance numbers (acceleration and handling). The M gives more feedback and confidence at the handling limits, while the C55 offers more refinement and relaxed sense of power. These are subjective feelings that cannot be quantified.

AgentQ

Can we all at least agree that the S4 sucks?

DbleNckel

oh oh...another can of worms opening ??? :p can we say "20,000" views?!?!?!

skahung

ROFL!!!

Audi = VW+$20000

DbleNckel

just like Mercedes= Chrysler+$50,000 :p

btw, we hit "10,000" views !!! YAHOOO!!!!!!!

PC Valkyrie

The Audi S4 is better than the C55 and M3.........in the snow!!

Jon200

can you explain why the have decided to put a 3.4L into the M3 then?