Tommy_s4

SSP tuning a shop that one of my friends owns over here is running low-mid 12s with a stage2 and mid 11s with a stage3 WAGON. He also just broke the record for fastest Stage3 K04 car with a 2.8 FATS time. 40-110 mph in 2.8 seconds.

ECTurboGSX

It is impossible to say what a good AWD launch feels like until you've actually been in a car that can do it. The Audi wins to 60 because the gearing is better and because it can put the power down with no gripes. A few years ago my Eclipse didn't have too much done to it, but I was running a 13.5 @ 97.5. If you look at the C43 time I posted above, it was going 1.5 mph faster at the end of the 1/4 but I was there a second before it was. I really hope that serves as some sort of enlightenment for those who don't understand what a good launch can do for you.

Our cars also just seem sort of sluggish down low, specially with the autobox. I think I could light the tires on my Eclipse up easier than on the Benz.

Militant-Grunt

Seeing I've been working on B5's for the past two years with SSP tuning, I can easily tell you that the S4 is by far the better choice. Stock for Stock I'm sure the C43 has a teeny bit more oomph, but very little money gets you a M3 / CLK55 killer. You cannot beat great gearing, quattro, and a pair of turbo's pulling you through the revband. On OEM k03 turbo's(Stock), our SSP tuned Stage 2 S4 took out a CL55 Kompressor (Highway roll), without any issues. This is just bigger sidemount intercoolers, software, and full exhaust. Thats chump change in money for big power.

I personally was going to get one, was ready to buy, but decided that I can make more power with my 1.8t motor, its cheaper to insurance and cheaper to run, as well as an A4 being lighter and nimbler to drive. The aftermarket base on these cars is massive, anything is available, tons of parts that have been made better than OE.

silence

my entire supercharger system (ALL my extras including air-water) and installation is less than what i would expect to spend every 2 years in MAINTAINING a 2.7t... let alone all the other junk that i've seen break on the audi's.

I don't care that the motor is basically bulletproof- you got to keep the timing chain in one piece and the oil inside of it as well.

ECTurboGSX

That is definitely an issue. I had a friend who bought a bone stock B5 S4 and had to replace the turbos at under 100k miles. Everything is squeezed in so tightly, it was an engine-out procedure. Yikes. Obviously he upgraded at that point.

ballinafg510

C43 hands down. Audis are nothing but problems and over priced on parts

Jons95c36amg

These days the 04 e55s go for under $40k which is a bargain for a car that runs low 12s stock. With just a pulley and tune, well you get the picture. But they have reliability issues which hold me back. Yeah Tommy I try to stay out of trouble. Good luck with your S4 and keep it at the track.

Dr. C36

on paper C43 has massive advantage, weighs alot less, much more power. However S4 (B5) has gearing advantage as well as 4WD launch capabilities so that evens the playing field. With any decent BPU mods S4 should win.

My buddy has Stage 3+ B5 S4... forget about it man, that sucker pulls unlike anything. Its so linear and smooth its amazing. he takes down E55 Kompressor amgs like they are nothing.

silence

show me 1/4 mile times of stage 3 cars running times fast enough for that to make sense?

GDawgC220

haha, the same can be said about MBs

MBE50003

there are far too many of those. Those B5's are ridiculous. Just a stage 3 is wow, now there are guys running GT25 and GT28 turbos that are just out of this world...

ECTurboGSX

I've got nothing but respect for Audi's. I knew that I wanted a V8 4 door and the B6 S4 was out of my price range. I'm very happy with the C43.

In general, you can't understand how quick you can make a factory turbo car for cheap until you own one. I made my 195 hp Eclipse a low 13 second car with a boost controller and fuel pump (and eventually a clutch) so about $200. Stock was high 14s I believe. The B5 S4 is going to be the same way, but with two more cylinders and an extra turbo. Think about it for a sec, how much horsepower is the C36 getting out of a naturally aspirated six? And the twin turbo S4 makes less?? Obviously, the factory is restricting things. Simply remove those restrictions (which isn't too much $$) and you have a lot of opportunity.

To each his own, I like both cars. For me, it came down to wanting the V8 sound. The manual tranny in the Audi definitely made me think twice.

ProjectC55

Dude they are out there believe me and the member Evil_Empire owns one!!

SeeKlasse

people interested in modding german cars like they are some sort of japanese import pehaps can hang out with rod millen, who coaxed 900hp from a celica motor with quad turbos... that guy loves to rice out toyotas and lexus' and take em out to beat feeble 500hp amg cars. clearly they are no better than, nor no match to the supeririority of his modded ricemobile.

sorry to have to ***** but i keep getting this redundant feeling every time someone says "but hey this car xx can have mod xx and be faster than other more expensive car xx for half the price!!" or something similar, including two cars of comparable value with mod xx on car A now making it a better purchase option for some reason. as stated above if you can get 900hp from a 2.5 liter japanese motor you can pretty much make any car faster than alot of other cars with only a "few mods" and sometimes very little money

EUROTEK//AMG

did someone say Audi S4 ?

SeeKlasse

actually if you want to talk production road-legal cars that are faster than all riced out examples, id still have to give it to mercedes. they did a really good job in 1998 with their 25 production car version of the clk gtr.

although the new audi r8 v12tdi might have a fighting chance. here are the numbers for the 98 clk gtr

top speed 307.4 kph / 191.0 mph
0 - 60 mph 3.4 seconds
0 - 100 mph 5.7 seconds
0 - 1/4 mile 9.4 seconds

the bugatti veyron does the 0-60 in 2.6 seconds, but the clk still beats it to the 1/4 mile. not shabby for a couple 1.5 million dollars cars eh.... although ive heard of honda crx's with crazy engine mods getting to the 1/4 mile in the 9's

Militant-Grunt

+2, I can safely say my ML55 is far more unreliable than my 1.8t.

This is out of our tuning Shop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqn5GPpD7RQ

This car had a bad turbo no less, messed up fan blades on one side.
Right now a tune is being finished up that will comfortably run 11s on a full stage 3 S4. Best of all this is on OEM k04 turbochargers.

One of the SSP cars has GT28's, with a conservative tune the car puts down 520whp, no more not to blow the stock internals. When properly maintained these cars are decently reliable, and unlike a Mercedes, there is such comprehensive DIY write ups, you can do just about anything yourself. Parts are cheap.

silence

i've driven more than 1 stage 3 car and have a lot of experience with them. Yes, some are fast. Yes, all are much much faster than a stock C43 (duh!). Are they a cost efficient "cheap" car to modify that makes crazy power compared to anything else... not at all. They may "take down" later model 55 amg's, but they aren't doing it with ease if they 55 has even basic mods etc..

there are a lot of cheaper and more reliable routes to higher power than with the 2.7t- the list would go on for pages but highlights include any bmw straight 6 with a turbo, virtually any american or german v8, or most japanese cars. In fact, i happen to own 4 cars which have motors it's cheaper and easier to make real power with (sad thing is i'm putting all my work into the car with the HARDEST motor to do so with- the C43)... now don't come back and say a chip and tuning makes big power with the s4, because i'm not talking about 400 or even 500 hp here...

c32AMG-DTM

So what are you talking... 600hp? That'd be a lot in a C43, for sure. Can the tranny handle it?

I think the point made above is that the 1.8T or the 2.7T can be tuned for RELATIVELY large gains with RELATIVELY fewer dollars, compared to MB's N/A V8 in the C43. APR's Stage 3+ kit for the 225 TT takes the car from 225hp to roughly 400hp, for like $6k-7k, something like that. Not particularly cheap, no, but you're getting a pretty big jump for under ten grand. B5 S4's that are running 11 second 1/4 miles are no joke, especially with awd to put the power down. I do agree it takes some serious coin to get those cars to that level of performance, however. E36 M3's have been known to make around 500hp with turbo kits... AA comes to mind, but they're not cheap - pretty sure it's more than $10k.

p.s. OT but what does "bagged" mean, referring to your Explorer?

ProjectC55

Dude have you ever been to Europe in particular Germany? Give it a rest. You sound nutz with your Japanese modding comments. Go over to Germany and Sweden and you will see tons of Riced out BMW's,MB's,VW's,Volvo's,Audi's etc. Japan and America are not the only countries that have folks that like to go nutz on car mods with all different marques expensive or cheap. They mod German cars just as much as folks like modding Japanese cars in all of Europe.


We are driving OLD "C-Classes" 10+ yrs old,who cares if you like your car stck good for you!! Your car is not appealing to the masses anymore due to the much newer cars out. It's not gaining anything in value and it's not like it's an Italian exotic that will keep some value.

It's an old AMG C-class, done.


The 90's W124 500E holds much better value and novelty than our C43's.

And yes it's cheaper to mod my Japanese import than it is to mod my 10 yr old MB. It's cheaper for me to mod it to receive twice it's present HP, and to me saving $$ ,having fun and beating the more expensive competition is a treat in itself!!

However,I don't feel modding my AMG makes your AMG value any better than mines to be honest with you. Show me a C43 with a 5.5L motor and I wil take it every time and enjoy it.




P.S. I had to murder a N/A S55 and run with my friends Viper and my cousins E63 over the wknd going to a CART racing gathering, and all those guys were telling me how they were impressed with my Mitsu MONSTER. It was a quite a surprise to them but not me. My car makes 500 crank hp so it should do what it does.

Dr. C36

To make my point even more drastic. I introduce the NEW turbo kit now available for the B5 S4s Do not underestimate those suckers

silence

if you narrow the argument down to s4 vs. c43 the s4 is more easily tunable- hands down (although that doesn't mitigate the reliability factor).

i was responding to some broader earlier generalizations.

Jons95c36amg

Yes the s4 has great hp potential. That goes with any FI car. Nobody mentioned the Evos or STis which could be modded even cheaper with great gains. Lets not get carried away on this subject.

SeeKlasse

yes ive been all over europe and have seen alot of "sauerkrauted" german vehicles. jokes aside i really do like modding, im interested in making my c43 faster and both of my prior c280's were modded to give em the pep they needed to be acceptably fast, not competitively fast, however. I was getting all excited when reading about you shooting down all those sweet cars thinkin that you were talkin about your c55 but then came out the talon... i do respect that car for its speed and power but it doesnt look half as nice as your silver monster... which car do you go for as your everyday driver?

my finely engineered german vehicle cost me 200 bucks part+labor for a new crank position sensor today... the car gave me a lot of trouble starting up i probably cranked it like 15 times before getting pissed and calling a tow truck. then, luckily, on the 16th try the car finally started, at which point i drove it to my mech and got that sucker fixed.

my friend has an Audi A4 2.8 quattro from the same generation as the 2.7t and that thing is in shambles. it only has 100k miles too. sometimes when he cranks it the cel comes on and it idles all rough, his gas guage never works, components around the motor are going but thats characteristic of any part with 100k miles on it. also his car sounds like it has a tincan as a muffler for some reason. the sound is so sharp and tinny its really strange. its a pretty nice car, though, looks good and has a well assembled interior with conservative yet elegant styling. he lives in savannah at least a hundred miles from an honest mechanic. all local dealerships tell him he needs to pay em 1000-1500 to get his car towed to their shop and replace his alternator, which i believe is a cheap part but apparently (according to the people he spoke to) are difficult to do yourself and require several hours of a professional mechanic's effort to repair.... anyone know anything about the 2.8's?

SeeKlasse

The C43 tranny is also shared with the E55 and sl500's from its day, among others. i believe its rated at 580 Nm (428 lb-ft) so im sure if you went too far past that point you would start accelerating the wear and tear on the tranny, more than likely cutting its life drastically