silence

i've owned both 2.8 and 2.7t audi's

the 2.8 alternator is a HUGE job- one of many common HUGE jobs with that motor.

SeeKlasse

wow i guess he was being serious. do you have any idea what a fair price would be he could expect to pay to have the alternator swapped out?

GDawgC220

Expect a couple of hours for labor. The front end needs to be placed in the "service" position which is removing the bumper and then swinging the radiator out to one side (not removing but just opens out towards you and off to one side). This exposes the front of engine where the alternator is located. He can probably buy a re-man'd part or new online and just bring it to the shop to replace.

Andy7oaks

Performance per buck for turbo tuning seems a lot better. For my C43 I was quoted about £6000 for engine work for it to go to roughly 345-350, a supercharger would have been £12000 which was the cost of the entire car.

As she is getting old I decided to not do it and put that money away for my next car. Instead I got the sprintbooster and although no quicker the car feels quicker because the response. For the low cost I am very impressed by this little device.

If I was going to mod the car I would like to gain performance be removing weight from the front of the vehicle to increase acceleration and help weight distribution, but I am sure that is an expensive route as well.

The stock car is still fast enough most of the time. Either that or I am getting old

Regards

Andy

silence

ah, teh service position!

my 2.8 spent about 4 months in it once

Militant-Grunt

The service position takes 10-15 minutes to get to... It is cake to work on these cars. Bumper 2 bolts, radiator support 4 bolts, bumper shocks 6 bolts, then 3 coolant lines (5 if auto for tranny cooler), and then about 3 or 4 sensors need to be unclipped and the headlight connectors which are cake. (dont need to unhook the ac lines, just get a chair and swing the front around to the side). Like I said 10-15 minutes if you know what you're doing =).

Did my timing belt in about an hour.


2.7t / 2.8 are pretty much the same amount of work.

silence

no offense man, but your comments don't really speak to the issues here... You obviously work as a tech at a shop and service those cars constantly. How many hrs of labor is charged by the dealer or an independent shop for the timing chain? How many 2.7ts and 2.8s have oil leaks from the valve cover gasket? how many have failed cam seals? how many have failed timing chains and resultant damage? the answer to all those things is WAY too many.

Militant-Grunt

The "unreliability" of these cars is hugely exaggerated, I purchased my A4 with 94k miles on it, I have now done close to 45k miles on the car in the course of a year and a half, it has never stranded me, it has never broken down on me, and cost me a LOT less than ML55 costs my father to maintain, with the money that was spent on the ML, and the stuff they warrantied I could've bought an S4 or two low mileage A4's.

Yes, if these cars are owned by dip *****s who do not perform the recommended maintenance as well as try to run the car to the ground, the car will break down. Don't replace your oil every 3k on a turbo car? Expect the turbo(s) to blow, I know S4 owners who have 150k+ on original k03s.

Timing chain? Timing belt. The shop I work in takes 500 dollars for a timing belt job. 1200 for a plain jane k04/k03 swap (no intercooler work, clutch work etc.) My father dropped 1600 dollars on a ESP module replacement last week, WTF is that? I'll take a timing belt replacement, something you very easily can do yourself (300 dollar kit that includes everything) over a 705 dollar ESP module + massive labor. My friends 2000 ML320 is in the shop bi monthly, thank god for his 130k warranty, 1000's in warranty work!

Valve cover is 30 minutes of work on a 1.8, maybe a little over an hour on a 2.7/ 2.8 . I believe it is 10 or 8 bolts on a 1.8t, a little more on the 2.8 / 2.7 (two heads). (its a pathetically easy job.) I never heard of bad cam seals, never had any customers with that issue. The fact of the matter is that this is all relatively cheap, a valve cover gasket kit (with the spark plug seals is 47 dollars at the dealer).

If you can't afford the maintenance on a German car, get a Toyota/ Honda and quit *****ing.

For young adults, people who want to have fun with a great tuner car, it is a great way to go. There is EXTENSIVE Do It Yourself material everywhere. (http://www.ca-va.org/ , http://www.audidiy.com/ , http://www.audiworld.com , Any Audi forum). Not to mention probably the biggest aftermarket part support of ANY brand (I see VW/ Audi as one entity). Honestly, if you're going to tell me that a Mercedes Benz is a superior car to a money minded individual who doesn't mind getting his hands a little dirty, then you're plainly out of your mind. (Because this is what we're talking about here. Two fairly OLD cars for people looking not to spend a lot of money, the C43 being a decade old).

Not saying these cars are the best in the world, but overall considering Price, Tune ability, part availability, non complexity of repairs, Interior quality and refinement, and aftermarket support, you just can't possibly go wrong. You're entitled to your own opinion.

One last thing, I've had hands on experience on Major DIY repairs for maybe not even a year.

silence

i think both of our opinions have been fairly and well stated- those who read it can take their own things out of it. My personal experience has been that neither the 2.7t nor 2.8 are no prone to ridiculous oil leaks and other $$ repairs and that both cars i've owned have also been plagued with other annoying crap (moldings coming off, blinker's breaking, speed control breaking etc. etc.). A quick search will show that i'm not the only one with such issues. I did all the repairs myself on those cars and they didn't cause me undue financial hardship (however, untrue that would be for the average owner). Additionally, you might say that my experiences were due to improper maintainance or similar- with regards to that all i can do is point out the miles i've put on my other cars during the same time period without likewise issues (about 300k on the suburban, 30k on c43, 120k on explorer, etc.)

so far as aftermarket support and extensive diy information- audi/vw is a LONG way from subaru, honda, ford, chevy, dodge and so forth.

SeeKlasse

first off, thank you militant for a quick run through on the service position.. i think im going to help my friend get his radiator swapped out, by the sound of it the job doesnt seem too hard.

i would like to disagree with several points that were made. please dont compare mb quality to audi, everyone knows theyre just not assembled/engineered as well as a mb. also, the interior is a far cry from the c43 (ive driven almost every nice car imaginable from being a weekend valet at a country club for 2 years now, bentley maserati ferrari and every amg imaginable including non-amg 600's). my point is that after having reviewed all of the interiors (including many audis, even the v10 s6 and s8 havent driven a rs6 yet but driven two rs4's) i would have to say that mercedes KILLS audi in terms of interior quality and class. as a matter of fact, mercedes does the interiors so well on their higher end cars that arthur blanc (owner of flacons and part owner of home depot) got rid of his bentley continental (which he also was upset with the phone management computer) and got a s65, which he drives every day and has been for at least 10 months now, he personally stated that the mb had a finer interior, though i felt he was more interested in the biturbo v12.... i did kinda like the red leather they stretch over the dash in the bentley its really soft...

another rich guy prefers to drive his a8 over any mercedes. he claims that mercedes "float" too much for his taste, adding that they are nice cars and well engineered, but he likes the aluminum unibody... whatever, i cant wait to drive the r8 he got his wife last month.

ECTurboGSX

Actually, if you read almost any review or comparison, the Audi always scores higher marks on the interior. The C43 has a nice interior as well, but Mercedes went down hill on the W203 and it shows in many of their other cars as of recent, excluding the new S-Class.

ProjectC55

SeeKlasse

i disagree. have u seen the interior on the s65? its ridiculous! checkerstick on the doorpanels and seats on soft lambskin leather. lambskin suede on the headliner and stretched over the dash.... its sick theres no audi that can compare.... but at a near 200k tag not many cars can...

GDawgC220

You can probably compare the S65's interior to the S8's. If you're comparing the S4 interior to the S65, then it's no contest. Compare apples to apples or class to class.

If you look at interior reviews, Audi has won time and time again for their design, ergonomics and quality compared to other manufacturers in it's class (MB, BMW, etc).

transferred

Bentley has a bi-turbo 12cyl too.

However, I'd take the S65 every day of the week over the Bentley Continental as it's poorly styled and lacking performance. The DB9 kills it with 100 less hp it's so darn heavy and that's the two seater Bentley. S65 is rarer too

As for Audi, well their A8L W12 is just beautiful inside. That's their true luxo barge, not the swb and much cheaper S8.

silence

The later benz interiors went downhill for a while but imo are back up to where they should be.

SeeKlasse

i agree, for a while mb was using cheap interiors and shared style all the way from c class to s class. theyve been doing alot better work with their new body s and even e class. not to mention the cls, the interior in the cls55/63 is awesome!

for the record i was comparing the v10 s8 interior to the s65. ive never seen the w motor a8l but im sure its nicer than the s8. its really not fair to compare the s65 to any car like that though because of the immense price diff. just in case nobody knew this fact - the s65 is currently the worlds fastest 4-door production car... ive heard this from multiple sources including the sales reps at the stealerships boasting it constantly...

MyFirstAMG

Just addding some more info. Current stable consists of a 99 Audi a4(2.8), 01 Audi a6(2.7Tchipped), and an 02 c32 amg. The 2.8 has been pretty stable so far. The major complaints are controll arms and tie rods as my wife just hits every damn pothole in North America. The 2.7T was pretty quick stock. After chip, it felt pretty damn fast. Major complaints have been a nagging oil leak. I've had the valve cover done with no success. I think it is turbo related as I usually only get the problem after running hard or driving for over 2 hours. BTW, the valve cover was over $1k. The C32 has only been with us for a week now and it is amazing. Intererior wise A6>C32>A4, but these cars are of different years and classes. I have not done maintenance yet on the C32, but know that it is not a honda. I think all German cars of this class will cost a pretty penny to maintain, but the wife and I really enjoy them.

To the OP, like said earlier, be careful of b5 S4's as more than likely, it will be chipped at the minimum.