My M332i has the same OBd1 manifold mod!So that mani as we both know is not stck on a 96M3.It's a drivers race between a stck C43 and a modded M3 like yours. My M332i can run mid to low 13's.I'm confident it can blow away a C43 upstairs(that is until I had put this 5.5L motor in ) because I have more mods than you apparently.I don't notice a whole lot of missing low end Tq I guess because the mid range and topend pwr on my BMW is krazee!

For upgrades you need to do a search to see what's good for the C43.I mentioned two here already to give you a start.you can also dd a powerchip to give you more pwr.I have a friend with a wicked fast C43 stck that I would race against any Stck 95(obd1) M3 or newer 96-99 OBD2 !(The blk C43 below is the one I'm talking about,It's my buddies and it's fast as hell.It's a freak!!)
And here they are:


99M3 estroil Blue/BLK94 M332i Just 2 out of my 4 lovely children.

(Blk94M332i)3.2L mtr,Schrick cams,3.5"euro HFM,24lbs inj,TMS chip,Cosmos CAI,full SS exhaust system, full 97 M3 suspension Control arms,subfames ,eibach springs,bilstein shocks,xbrace

 

...stop...stop.......stop it right now......

 

Not BS, and I came here and posted this because I was very impressed with the Mercedes performance and wanted to learn more, not to bash it because I won with my modded m3.

If it does anything for you, I do believe that in a race between a stock C43 AMG vs a Stock M3 3.2L the C43 will clearly win. However with my lightly modded m3 this wasn't the case.

 

Q1: plain and simply "a lot". Far less choices then for BMWs and all the players in the space charge a real premium. ...unless you go the speedybenz route and are skillfull enough to roll your own. Case in point, the suspension on my car he designed an built, and velocity stacks, and much more. Keep in mind, these stacks are used along with phenolic spacers, custom ram-air from the fog light location, headers, racing cats, and wide open exhaust. Added up to get him about 300hp to the rear wheels; thats up from about 235 to 245 stock.

Q2: It has had its moments while under warranty. If you're lucky, you'll get a car with an extended warranty (requiring you pay a premium from a dealer?), or buy one from a guy that had everything fixed while under warranty like me. Car's been good to me the last few years. Was shaky there for a little while though, when I thought I'd end up in an S4 or CTS-V.

Though I stuck with it and I have a renewed appreciation for MB quality of old (many to this day continue to say to me the W202 is the last of the solid, reliable MBs; most recently the guy that did our motor swaps, who knows every aspect of most every [modern?] benz inside and out).

First, during the motor swap I changed the motor mounts. Felt like I paid for a chassis rigidity upgrade on the car like in GT4 :p . I had a bad one for a long long time but didn't know.

Second, though I noticed evolving "squeaks" a while back I just chalked up to the 70K of really hard fought miles. However after installing the speedybenz suspension, viola! Squeaks are gone! Turns out the noise must have been shock or other stock suspension related noises that made it into the cabin impersonating internal noises.

It blows me away how solid this car is, remaining so with how hard I drive it.

Q3: Transmission is a weak point. Mine was rebuilt 3 or 4 (I forget) times under warranty. I was hoping to get a new one but it seems it doesn't want to dies now. Go figure. Most recently, turns out I had a bad MAF and that was causing all sort of transmission functionality problems. Still would rather have a manual. I wanted to do a Tremec TKO. I learned I'd have to go stand-alone engine controller to do so, and would also loose the tach signal if I removed the auto tranni from the equation. grr...

...oh, and no tilt steering... but you do get fold-down seats. (hey, you didn't get them on a W210 E55)

 

Thanks alot c55m8o.

From hat I've been reading it seems as if this truly is very well built.

Comparison to the M3

Climate Control in my M3 is Dual, but in the Merc it is singular... personally not a big deal at all. Funny thing some of the climate control systems have their circuit boards coated with a substance that over time starts ripping out the circuits... which causes it to go faulty.

Stock sound system in the M3 sucks, unless it is the harmon kardon. Upgrading the sound system sucks because the fronts are 5.25" and the rears are 4"... which blows. I don't know anything about the Merc, I think I recall that the stock system isn't bad though.

Seats in my m3 are great. I've got the lux version with some rare italian leather and lux seats. They are extremely comfortable and I rate them better than my cousin's S420 (which apparently is bulletproof and has the S500 engine in it). They are firm, but very supportive, and adjust many different ways. They are powered too. And are lighter than the normal m3 seats. However I don't have heated leather seats like my old bmw
My best friend has the same car as me... his is in much better condition, however he has the infamous vader seats. They look cool... but they are actually horrible. They don't hold you in place, nor are they comfortable, and after a long ride you want to hang your spine on the clothes line... plus they weigh more.

The back seats are just dandy. There is room to fit 3 people back there for long trips... though they don't enjoy it I've done it :v

Engines in both cars seem very solid. For the BMW you might beable to squeeze 300 rwhp from the m3 engine with everything done except forced induction, people usually end up with 280ish, however a new set of cams from sunbelt was released and is very promising. I don't know what kind of power they are making yet because they are brand new, also there are valve springs you can get with the cams that will let you rev to 9500 safely... imagine revving that high. I get around 35 mpg on the highway, but around town I get around 15... it is an odd difference. The M3 Engine is built to take a beating and laugh, like the Merc's engine is too. It seems like for the Merc you can get more hp out of it without FI. With forced induction the US Engine for the M3 can make 600-700 crank hp from Active Autowerke. Most are making around 450 hp by using a turbo, intercooler, and a thick gasket to lower compression. The Euro Engine has a Turbo kit for 1000 hp, but is a complete rebuild of the car.

The sound of the m3 is lacking to me... so I grabbed an exhaust system and it sounds incredible. My downfall is that I love the sound of a v8... so I look at mustangs and camaros like they are gods amongst men. I imagine the Merc sounds a little like that. (When I raced I couldn't hear his too well cause mine is rediculously loud when I'm on it... can't wait to grab track pipes :v )

Transmissions in the M3 are very solid. I haven't heard of any problems with them. Performace does infact suffer like crazy in the auto M3 so I'm not a fan. The US Versions are Z-F Trannies, and the Euro is Getrag. The tranny is untouched with the 1000 hp kit, but the instructions are to not even think of slapping on slicks or else you'll shatter it. I don't know if c55m8o's problem is an isolated incident with his transmission problems... seems like a lemon tranny (not all C43s... just his... sorry c55m8o )

Heh... here it comes... the touchy issue.
Performance

Ok... I think we can all agree that the M3 out-handles the AMGs. In 97 it was rated the best handling car in the world at any price.

Stock for Stock - the M3 can do 0-60 in 5.6 seconds, I see the benz at 5.8. However after the m3 shifts out of 2nd the benz starts gaining ground back. This seems to be a function of gearing and torque. What I am wondering is what the magazines got. I see 14.4 for the Benz and 14.2 for the M3. Now on the forums I've heard of people getting high 13s stock for both. Personally I think that is just lucky. The trap speeds are the same at 99 mph. The M3 Auto just blows. It is high 14's or low 15's.

Modified... this is what I'd like to get into. I've seen low 13s modified without FI. And oddly I've seen a guy run a 13.0 with a supercharger and his buddy run a 13.4 with just bolt ons.

A manual c43 would be so damn awesome. The M3 3.2L is under-rated at 240 hp... it is actually 250 hp... big woop. The 95's with the 3.0L make 240 hp. It weighs 3150 lbs. The C43 is 3461 lbs with 302 hp... The power to wieght ratio is in favor of the Merc by far... however the Auto transmission seems to really hinder the performance that could be unleased. I'd be realy interested in finding out the drive train loss for the merc. Or what the RWHP is stock.

So if anyone can add their $.02 I would appreciate it. I hope people understand a little more about the m3 and I'm looking forward to learning much more about the C43 as it may be my first second car So please help me fill in the blanks with my deductions here.

 

I'm selling my C55 and will be looking to get a M3 so I may be comparing the 2 shortly

 

Harmon Kardon in my blue M3 sounds great especially when you add a self powered infinity sub woofer,this goes for the c43 as well,a phenominal difference.

Yes I have the vaders in my Blue M3 2dr and I love em! many do complain that they are uncomfortable is tru!



These cams are terrible for the street and great for the track.The schrick cams deliver more mid range pwr and are better sooted for everyone in general.These motors don't make much pwr at all up to 9500 rpm's with springs and I don't remember Sunbelt advertising that they allow the S50 and S52 engine to rev that high!Where did you read that? Well that's what displacement does A very expensive endeavor, built right you can pay almost 18k including "must do" suspension enhancements to the already weak rear underbody sheet metal and differential "carrier bolts".They have been known to break due to the added TQ.Taking that bolt out pf the diff is a tru pain in the *** after it breaks.

Still an amazing car for a 6 cylinder especially when pwr mods are added.Add the full supersprint exh(headers back) and a CAI and the 6 cylinder has one of the sweetest race car tunes and is a force to be reckoned with.

For the most part this is tru but many have reported their trannies being very hard to shift during the cold winter months and have reported the tranny resting in 5th gear all the time after yrs of use though this has not happened to my 2k 328i ZF tranny that's installed in my 94 m332i!http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ht=transmision E36 325 tranny is Getrag and US version 328 and M3 use ZF. Well so far so good with my tranny.Knock on wood!I change my tranny fluid quite often with Amsoil ATF frequently!I shift it a,nd have raced it at the track with the 5.5L ,no problems. Def MAF can make you think there is something wrng with the tranny though.

I agree until speedybenz showed up! However it's still one of the best handling cars next to my modded 412whp AWD Talon I ever owned!

The c43 is not 300 lbs heavier than the M3.The e36 M3 has been quoted to weigh in at 3250 lbs,C43 3440.It's lighter than a CLK430. 3150lbs would be for the E36 325.

I gave you 1k $$ wrth of info and I also just needed to own both cars for now!

 

awe man... I'd wait for the new gen, which I think might be a 4 class making it an M4 (though that might be last year's news)

edit: oh, never mind ... I forgot, you're trying to free up cash so new is not an option. sorry.

BTW, awesome thoughts everybody. I'm glad we can do this and not get heated over some MB vs. BMW closeminded prejudice. ...I was seriously considering a E46 M3 for a while there around 2002 [2001?].. What worried me was the talks about that run of bad engine blocks they had, which opened my eyes to how far the M3 motor had been taken in max'ing out tolerances, making me worry about its longevity.

 

yeah I'd love a E46 M3 with the SMG, but I'm looking at E36 M3s. You can get one now for around 10k or so. Also thinking I should just buy a beater for under $5k. Don't worry Steve, MY car is going to a good person who you know quite well

 

...reeeealllly.... Hmmm. I guess someone's wifie won't be getting that two door CLK body style she was hoping for then...

 

That's a beautiful thing!Wow hope this is tru!

 

Better mod it so you can really enjoy it.If you do ,see me!

 

[QUOTE=coolcarlskiC43]These cams are terrible for the street and great for the track.The schrick cams deliver more mid range pwr and are better sooted for everyone in general.These motors don't make much pwr at all up to 9500 rpm's with springs and I don't remember Sunbelt advertising that they allow the S50 and S52 engine to rev that high!Where did you read that? QUOTE]

I've read that the sunbelt cams are great due to their lobe design. And do not suffer on the street. The shrick cams fail at 7000 I think. However, the Sunbelts, because of the lobe design, can rev to 7600 safely on the stock springs. The failure rate for the stock cams is around 6700... this is when the lifters start to not follow the cam's path and start kind of floating. By putting on specially designed springs for the sunbelt cams you can run it to 9500 rpms... which would be insane. The reason for not making power that high would be the intake becoming a restriction. I'd be interested to see a full intake, full exhaust, the cams, and these springs. I would love to hear it hah.

 

[QUOTE=96M3Power]I went over to Active Autowerkes in Miami Fla 3 weeks ago and personally saw Karl Hugh(OWNER) and he took me on a tour of the facilities.Out of his own mouth he said that the Schrick cam was a better cam for the street because it had better midrange pwr than the Sun Belts and that the Sunbelts only gave the car more topend power.So for the track the Sunbelt is a better cam as opposd to being used on the street where the Schricks will serve much better.They(AA) have them in their Grey E36 M3 track car.

My car makes good pwr up to 7400 rpm's with the Schrick cams but probably not like the sunbelts would. Also they have not been able to make them(SB cams) wrk in the OBD2 cars yet because they are still trying to figure out the software for the apllication.

 

...I'm sure all of us who've had problems wish that to be true.

Readme: http://www.club202.com/forums/showth...ghlight=busted

I've taken part in threads on the same topic on a few boards, but can't seem to find those to link to right now. Sorry, but we've been living with this far longer then you've been looking into C43s...

I mentioned it above. I've seen measurements from people in the 235 - 245 rwhp range.

Otherwise, you triggered some other thoughts...

I hate transmission adaptation (click me for how much).

I really dislike the pneumatic bladders in my seats with that always fail or the hoses come loose. However being a pretty "hard" bottom, it's still very comfortable over long hauls. When the bladders are working it's a nice tight fit. Though my big frame as actually widened the steel side wings within the seat!

I just love tooling around and squeezing the gas ever so slightly but that being enough to pull away from other vehicles really trying... Biggest difference between the 4.3L and 5.4L is pulling power in the 2K - 4K range where you'd otherwise want the C43 to downshift. It's so satisfying.

C43 stock has a harmoneous exhaust. Sounds even better with the 4.3L then the 5.4L IMO... resonates at a higher frequency due (I'm guessing) to the smaller cylinder size that's just perfect.

BTW, weight is pretty on point for the C43. During the 1st pass in installing the suspension, I had it corner balanced so have actual figures. With 212 lbs of sand in the driver's seat, spare tire, and about 12 gallons of gas in the tank (estimating, as I know I drove 70 mile from a full tank and I get about 16mpg w/th 5.4L), it weighed 3677 lbs. That's 3465 lbs with about 3/4 tank of gas. That's a bit under 3400lb. with an empty tank but with the spare tire in.

Bose sound system is "ok" at medium volume; can push it with rock & roll but it rattles excessively with dance music. Sound is very accurate and as you'd expect from Bose (the historical Bose, not that puny 2" driver Bose is known for today) midbass range is nice and thick.

 

Gone!!!!!!!!!!! Waiting for post#6!

 

Here it is... post #6 haha

Active Autowerke only use the shrick cams... the Sunbelts are exclusive to Bimmerworld.com. The obd2 system is actually out for it. 2500 for the entire obd2 kit. The midrange loss is not too bad.

Anyways... about the seats hah...

My drivers seat was falling apart when I got the car... whoever had it before me didn't use any kind of lotion for it. now, after wearing it in more there is a hole in it, some threads are coming out... just makes it look horrible... not bad for a 10 year old car cause the rest of the leather in the interior is good... but man... it really bugs me when I get in the car. Also my glove box the one part broke off that lowers it slowly. This happens with a lot of them.

And me being a pure idiot... I took the seats out cause I was trying to get a dresser back to college... it didn't fit anyway. But driving around with no seats in the car isn't bad... but where the screws used to be kind of rusted up a little bit. Just enough that the old screws wouldnt' go in correctly. And new ones won't as well.

Other than that I see a supercharger I'm considering buying for the car over the cams. It comes with everything for 4500... no intercooler though. Runs at 6 psi but produces 300rwhp. Which is almost a 100 rwhp gain from stock.

Anyway... doing a little calculations... I'm figuring my car to be around 225 rwhp right now. I plugged in 3400 and divided 245 rwhp... that gives the hp per lb. Then I took my 3150 and divided it by the merc hp per lb and got 226 rwhp. Granted I could be wrong about all this stuff

So anyone in the State College, PA area? Or live in PA?

 

Wrong again my friend! Call Karl at Active and ask him.Like I said I was there ,and spoke to him personally.
Also what does this add say:https://secure15.nexternal.com/share...unt2=426383614 it says OBD1 conversion for OBD2 cars 2500.00 READ carefully next time because they do not have a straight up SW kit for the OBD2 cars.IT plainly says OBD2 to OBD1 CONVERSION!

Bimmerworld has been selling the cams especially to those who spend a lot of time at the track road racing.

P.S. Before you come to any conclusions why don't you just call him(Karl) and ask him if you don't believe me!They have the sunbelts in their Grey E36 M3 racecar


OK post #7 with some accuracy now! thanx!