c280_nz

these green top 42# are the same injectors i use in my c280,
if you are after a little more fuel in wot, you may be able to use a adjustable fuel pressure regulator to dial in a little more fuel pressure/ mor flow

ProjectC55

Remember that there are two different shades of green. One for the 17lbs inj and a darker green for the 42lb injectors. The ones in your 280 sound like the ones that come with the E36 325i 2.5l 93 to 95 including the 1995 3.0l E36 M3. Trust me I went thru all this inj stuff when I dropped my 3.2L motor in my 325i and when my 5.5l motor was plcd in my C43. If anything my C43 runs pig rich even with the 5.5L motor.

TVT_DESIGN

Well at least you got the color right. The Green Injectors that came off of Dave's car are part number: 0280155839, which if you look on this web site: http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:...lnk&cd=6&gl=us

and scroll down on the right, you will see that they are rated at 259 cc/min. Now to make it even easier for you to figure out I'll give you the conversion factor for cc/min to lbs/hr, you divide by 10.5. Wait, don't even bother getting out your calculator I'll do the work for you, it comes out to 24.667 lbs/hr.

So where did you pull your info from?

TVT_DESIGN

I'd throw on Phenolics if I knew where to get them. We have them for the M112, but no M113 yet.

As for the porting, it's all done by hand with carbide, cutting stones, 2 grits of sand paper, and 2 grades of cross hatch brushes. Of course this is after a thorough day of degreasing and sand blasting.

The biggest areas for improvement are in the runners that go into the heads. There are many sharp radii in there that can be smoothed down and the opening can be gasket matched and radiused to create a velocity stack effect, minus the stack of course. The bottom half of the manifold doesn't need to be touched too muc has the longer runners are obsolete after 3200 RPM or so.

We basically just rework the top end of the manifold and smooth the transitions. I'm pretty confident it will net some decent gains.

2PHAST

Most all AMG cars and non AMG V8's use the light blue injectors, the C32, E55, CLK55 etc, all use these injectors, their flow rate (measured) is right around 40lbs. The black injectors are around 19lbs

I have not measured the green injectors, but I would have to agree they are not the high flow AMG injectors.

I cross referenced the light blue injectors and it seemed to me they were in all the AMG cars, including the C43/C36, but I would need to go back and check the EPC to be sure.

2PHAST

I should note here that removing the MAF screen may cause drivablity problems. I did this on my m112 motor, the vehicle would not even idle with the plastic MAF screen removed. So much for that idea.

I also tried a M113 MAF, which worked, but causing shift problems with the electronic transmission.

These two problems may not be a issue for the C43, so its something to keep in mind if you run into problems.

RBYCC

Removing of MAF screen is problematic on just about any make of vehicle.
Same with smoothing and removing ribs from intake manifolds...they are sometimes part of the design to reduce turbulence and smooth airflow.

ProjectC55

I will re-verify it myself this afternoon. I got my info from here:

http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injector_SetsFORD.asp


The 24lb inj I put in my M3 were blue tops. Stck the tops were pink which were rated at 21lbs.

ProjectC55

The TWO c43 motors we have contain the green injectors. Same thing with the 5.5L motor I have installed in my car right now. I will re-verify the part # no problem plus,part#'s with these cars are not always accurate. The E430 all the other 4.3L cars use white injectors if I am right. The c43 was the only one I found using green. Anyway I'll look up the part # as I am curious.

2PHAST

The light blue injectors cross reference to many,many different models, most all the AMG models and non AMG models, I don't remember if the smaller V8's were included, but the larger non AMG 5.0l motors were on the list, so were the V12 motors, but this is from memory.

This is the flow test I did on the light blue injectors vs. the stock black injector that is stock in my clk320. In 2001, the injectors were dark blue, but I couldn't locate any flow data for those, so I didn't try them. The C32 injectors have been extensively tested by many different users and these are a popular upgarde for people running FI on their cars, as they are direct drop in's.

I didn't need such high flow injectors, my Unichip ecu is dialing back the fuel flow a lot, but its still somewhat high, causing CEL issues. But, the good thing is my A/F is a solid 12.5 across the whole rpm range, which is what I was after in the first place. A 30lb injector would of been perfect for my application.

whipplem104

The color on mercedes injectors is not the same for all injectors and engines.
I have seen many different engines that are the same engine with different injectors in them. The n/a engines all use pretty small injectors regardless of what engine. There is really almost no difference. I have used c36, n/***, stock m104 e320, m119, and now I have e55k injectors. The 3.6 and n/*** ones are a little bigger than the other n/a injectors but not by much. The only ones that made a sizable difference are the kompressor injectors and they are virtually the same as the c32. Mercedes runs almost max duty cycle on all their engines,17-19ms, so it is pretty easy to tell if the injector can handle what you want to use them for. Just calculate hp per cylinder and apply to your vehicle. A 55k engine makes 500hp and has 8 cyl. That makes it roughly 65hp per cylinder. They can flow more but you will start exceeding max duty cycle if you go much above that depending on how high your rpms go.

TVT_DESIGN

Thank you for this input. It's nice to see exactly what I've been trying to say since July finally said by some one else.

ProjectC55

First of all they are BOSCH injectors not MB inj. MB may have their name stamped on them but they are made by BOSCH. Just like how the exh on an AMG and the Rims on an AMG are made by other copmpanies but MB puts their marque on them.

based on your formula 8x42lbs =332hp? This is why Mercedes has these inj in the N/A 5.5L motor (349 to 362 hp). I believe after 2k they upgraded the injectors.This(42lbs is also what they are using in the AMG 4.3L motor. When Jeffrey transplanted the 5.5L motor in Steve's C43 he used the injectors from his 4.3L motor to replace the injectors that were in his used 5.5L motor. What more do u want me to tell you. I've done pretty much the same thing as you have with my TWO bimmers,my Mitsubishi,my 16v GTS Toyota and my Mercedes Benz using Bosch injectors and Denso. Ford ,MB and BMW basically use the same inj and they indentify the size CC's by color.

silence

this is what I have gathered as well (directly above) but part of my corroborative evidence is the above poster...

TVT_DESIGN

Post up the part number of the 42 lbs injectors. I promise you it does not match the one on Dave's car.

TVT_DESIGN

Updated fuel rail and finished up top manifold piece. Props to my brother for being a stickler for detail and getting the manifold this clean.

I posted the manifold pics on a C55 post and don't know how te apply them here, so I'll get more tomorrow.

And finally we'll have install pics of the catch can.

whipplem104

I wanted to clarify that I was not stating that you should calculate injector size at pound hours to horsepower. What I meant was to calculate if the injectors would work for you output. What you are finding is horsepower per cylinder when you divide total output by the number of cylinders. So for instance I am currently using 55k injectors, which calculate this way. Roughly 500hp/8= 62.5hp per cylinder. 55k engines run at 5.5 bar by the way compared to the n/a motors that run at 3.8-4.2 bar spec. If you wanted to find injector size from this you could probably get close with the bshp fuel requirement. But I promise that if you were to install 42lb injectors into a stock n/a engine that they would be grossly oversized. This is just an easy method to roughly estimate if the injector would work.
And fyi for the kleemann cars use a rising rate fpr that ramps pressure to around 110-115 psi to get the fuel out of the n/a motor injectors. I actually called after working on one and it pegged my fp gauge that reads up to 100psi.
Yes they are bosch injectors but as many parts for cars they are made for Mercedes Benz. There are many parts that can only be purchased as a manufacture part. For instance bearings. I have tried to purchase bearings for different parts for Mercedes and called the manufacturers and their catalogs do not list them because they are only made for that manufacturer.

This chart of injector flow rates that tvt posted I have been looking for for a very long time. I would love to know where you found it.

TVT_DESIGN

Dyno to come on Saturday 2/28/09

ProjectC55

TVT_DESIGN

So how about those part numbers?

ProjectC55

I will look them up today! Definitely.

ProjectC55

Yep you are correct .Same part # on the injectors in my 5.5l motor.
If I am to go by that chart for the injectors,you would be right about the lbs. and I am wrong. Just don't think that chging them is necessary.

They sure do a hell of a job in my 5.5l C43,Kleemann headers ,Full exh 3" metal cats back,speedlimitr removed.


I'll be looking forward to Sat. Good Luck!

TVT_DESIGN

What was your AFR on the dyno with that combo?

ProjectC55

The last time the car was dynoed ,it was dynoed without the headers. It put out 309whp on a dyno dynamics dyno but he did not record the AFR. If there is room on the dyno I will probably volunteer my car for LET to see what my AFR's are.

RBYCC

What was your torque at the rear wheels ?