AMS Performance

C36 M104s are notoriously thirsty, however there are some things to improve that slightly. The C36 is truly unique and in a class of its own so its hard to compare it to anything else since it is the genesis of ///AMG as we know it today.

The 4spd can be a bit sluggish, however, if you put in RP and get crank pulley it shifts much quicker than stock and becomes livable. The good thing is the 4spd almost never goes bad and is very consistent where as the electronic 5spds can be annoying at times.

Again it depends on what you like as an individual but really there isn't much difference between them as far as performance, it comes down to personal preference.

v0ac

I do! but funny thing is, it's my friend Marko who drove your c36 and my c43 one year before who told me that... lool!!
dont put me in trouble
i know my c43 is mint :P

how come some website state c43 or c36 0-60mph @ 6 sec over...that sucks!!


ride safely

appatula

Thanks! I've been reading and the TCM problems are kinda scaring me out of the 5sp trannys, the last thing I need is to replace something that is worth half of what I will pay for the car. What is this RP and crank pulley you speak of? Thanks for the insight!

appatula

Jay,
This was a few years back when I was "young and stupid". I was a crazy driver, but an unexperinced crazy driver. I bought the car on my own after laboring through the summer doing a few masonary jobs around my neighborhood. Ironically 4 months later I was driving way too fast on a twisty stretch (police report says 80mph, I still doubt it though), lost the rear end, and slid into a pile of stones a mason had left in the front yard of his clients house! The car slid sideways into this pile, the drivers side corner was lifted up, the car flipped over and was airborne according to witnesses. It then landed on the roof and slid another 40 meters while mowing a couple of fair sized trees down in the process. Possibly the worst part of all this was waking up, sitting in someones driveway and looking at the car upside down while the firemen were trying to rip the car open to get my very best freind out. Long story short, we were BOTH out of the hospital that night. He left before I did! I owe alot to that car.

PaulRicciardi

Wow, glad you were ok after that one. I slid my 300E back in February, the back came out and I countersteered...car ended up spinning over 180 degrees into a guard rail and a tree. Not anywhere near as nasty as your C280 crash though. They're good cars for sure, I can't think of anything else I would want to be in if I was to crash again.

The RP that AMS is talking about is (I think) just Royal Purple transmission fluid. The crank pulley is a product he sells, search the C36/43 forum for opinions on it.

Also, I turned 130,000 last night in the C36

AMS Performance

RP = royal purple, it does help the older transmissions shift smoother, but the biggest difference came from the lighter crank pulley. It just allowed the older style transmissions to shift much quicker & smoother. Its not as pronounced on the newer 5spds, but on the older 4spds it transformed the car into something else.

Thanks

v0ac

but to get back to the main topic..
get a clean C43 and close thread

appatula

Haha, we will see! I wish I could buy both! However, I need to look at this kind of thing the most economical way possible. I like the fact that the 4speed transmissions are bulletproof, I am also partial to them because it is also the same transmission used in the legendary 500E. I also feel more comfortable working on the inline 6 myself. I would like to drive both then consider the choice based on mileage, transmission operation, and wiring harness.

appatula

Thanks Paul! These RWD cars can be scary when one is used to FWD for sure, but built so incredibly solid! I'll have to check that crank pulley out. RP is extremely expensive stuff, have to read up on that before considering.

BenzMaster19

Haha yeah I remember when he drove my C36, it was just after I bought it in May, it had the defective MAF, and before I did all the maintenace to it! LOL. And If I recall correctly, he took it down his street and back not going over 30 km/h... (a very good example of trying a car out wouldn't you say?)
Anyways I made him try it (actually he wanted to try it) AGAIN about 2 weeks ago after all the maintenace, MAF and engine were in tip-top running condition... AND I made sure he actually "tryed" the car out this time... I still remember what he said "Hey man this engine is getting faster and faster the more I drive it!" haha ask him now, I think he will have a different opinion. Actually I have been in a C43, flooring it, and I dont remember it being much different if at all any different then the C36... except the V-8 sound..

Anyways about the over 6 seconds thing.. Like most people already know, Mercedes is very conservative with there numbers, they even said the C63 was a 4.3 second car and car and driver had it at 3.9!! I thing it has more to do with how AMG engines break in, I will give you an example, theirs this Mechanic who started this thread on (I think) Benzworld? a long while ago who owns a C36 from new, ALL stock, he took it to a drag strip at 3,000 Miles on the odometer and tested the 0-60 several times, He got 6.3 average, ok. Went BACK at 5,000 miles did it again, got 5.9, went BACK again at 10,000 miles and got between several runs 5.5-5.7!!! So what he stated is that these AMG engines perform BETTER the more miles they put on or (loosen up) as you say, and basically are built to last.. Keep in mind this C36 is in tip-top shape ALL stock and owned by a mechanic aswell.

jayrasheed

yup merc engines are made to last and they love to be put thru their paces.
i guess thats y they use oil more than other engines, duno if thats true but i heard that the oil consumed helps protect the rings and walls, especially in the I6 M103 and M104.
but even the brand new 63V8 uses oil from new.

BenzMaster19

Yeah those 6.3's consume something like a litre every 3,000 km/h or something like that..?? But I guess your right thats a good reason and actually not a bad idea for extra protection for the engine aswell.

jayrasheed

ya in the user manual of the 36 AMG its says that one should expect the engine to use between 1 to 1.5 liter of oil for every 1000miles or hard driving!!

in my 36 that has abt 70k miles i use almost 1L for every 1300miles of high revs driving

appatula

My 300E burns around the same ammt of oil! Valve stem seals = Fail

PaulRicciardi

Haha, actually I've only ever driven RWD, my 300E was my first car. My grandfather bought the car new in 1992, sold it to my dad in 2001, he sold it to me in 2004, I crashed it in 2009.

On the oil issue, I burn a little less in my C36 as I did in my 300E, but the HG on the 300E was weeping significantly and I was about to replace it. All said, oil consumption, even at 130k is about 1L every 1200-1500 miles, basically what Jay is getting and what the manual says I should get.

Not really an issue, sounds like you are used to it with the 300E.
Speaking of which, have you considered keeping the 300E as a daily driver? I love my C36 but I'm currently tracking down a good 190E or 190D to use as a daily driver. Just a thought

appatula

I buy a case of oil every 3 months or so, just part of the maintenance tab. I really am considering keeping her as a DD. However, at 20 years old the insurance companies get rich from me as it is. I could possibly swing it, I have an emotional attachment to the 300E and that may be the deal breaker rather than funds. I would really prefer a nice 190E 16V, manual tranny as a daily driver. Fun as hell, good on gas (300E's downfall), relatively and cheap to fix.


Your bringing back old memories! My first auto was a 1978 GMC pickup with a 3 speed Hurst shifter on the floor, scary as hell to drive in the rain or get stuck on a big hill at a stoplight, if you didn't ease it into gear the bed would just start hopping and bad things happen from there....Then it was a beautiful 1980 280CE (W123 coupe), main seal poured oil out and she finally seized on the highway. Then it was a FWD civic....never again. Followed by the C280 and now currently the 300E.

P.S.
Here's the W123:

PaulRicciardi

Funny, sounds like we are in a similar place in life. I'm also 20, a full time college student, work full time. Full coverage insurance on my C36 is about 1900 dollars a year, about 700 more than I paid for my 300E. However keep in mind that I did have an accident in the 300E about 9 months ago and was given a "too fast for conditions" ticket so my rates are a little higher than what they would be with a spotless driving record. I imagine that living in CT your rates will be a bit more on top of that, but figured I would give you a ballpark.

Keep in mind that you could also keep the 300E as a daily and insure the C36 through a collectible car insurance company such as Hagerty's. That would cost you something miniscule like 100 dollars a year to insure the car, and most collectible insurances allow you to insure a vehicle at a stated value. For example, you think your C36 is worth 10,000 dollars, so that's what you insure it for (as opposed to a regular insurance company who will insure the car for about 5,000 dollars based on Kelley Blue Book). However all of this comes with a terms of use. Most collectible car insurance companies stipulate that you may only drive the car in certain circumstances. Ie you can't drive it to work, school, or the grocery store, but you could take it for a Sunday cruise. Most collectible insurances also have a yearly mileage quota that you cannot exceed, generally somewhere around 6,000 miles. It's a rather restrictive option for anyone who wants to regularly street their car, but if you are only planning on driving the C36 for occasional enjoyment, it could be a valid and inexpensive insurance option.

Also, if you're ever looking for a clean 500E in Connecticut, I know Wayne Carini of F40 Motorsports in Portland has one for sale every now and then. I'm originally from West Hartford and go back to visit family twice a year. I remember Wayne had a 500E for sale this summer, feel like it sold in the 18k range-it was very clean and had something like only 40,000 miles.

BenzMaster19

Haha I guess 1989 was a good year! another 20 year old here

appatula

I hear you! West Hartford you don't say? I'm up there often, a good friend of mine is attending U. Hartford. My rates are around 2300 a year, no collision, just glass. Not looking forward to hearing what the C36 will cost me, but I'm not worried either. I'll have to look into the collectible car insurance, that was a great suggestion that I knew little about up until now, thank you! I may daily drive the C36 for 6 months until I'm no longer wanting to drive it everywhere, then switch it up. We'll see, I'm still on the hunt. Hoping winter will bring a buyers market for RWD's .

Jons95c36amg

Oil burning? I use only Castrol Syntec 5-40w both my cars and doesnt burn oil. My C36 has 108k miles and use about 1/4 quart-3k miles. 0-60 in the mid 5sec.

BenzMaster19

Mine doesnt burn any oil either with Mobil 1 0W-40 and I have 160,000 Miles,,, as long as its MB approved your good Hey is your mid-5 second 0-60 time Stock?

PaulRicciardi

I'm on Mobil 1 0w40 as well...uses some oil like I said. Doesn't really bother me, my 300E did it, I know plenty of other MB inline 6 engines do it, it's even talked about in the manual.

Best 0-60 so far in my C36 is a 5.7 that's with no spare tire, ASR off, and a 2200 RPM launch.

jayrasheed

in summer i use the Mobil1 15w50 which happens to have the highest anti wear (ZDDP; Mobile 1 15w50 has 1200ppm mobile 1 0w40 has 1000ppm; old oils had over 1500ppm) of all the oils in the market and is recommended for cars with the flat tappet lifters like the M104.
"Mobil 1 15W-50 is also recommended for older valve train designs that may benefit from a higher level of anti-wear normally not required for newer generation vehicles. Mobil 1 15W-50 will also provide better anti-wear protection for higher valve spring tensions in certain racing engines."


In winter its the Mobil1 0w40 as it gets cold here and i need it for the cold winter starts.

As for oil consumption, well if i drive my AMG without revving it to the red all day long, i mean just ur regular well behaved driving it hardly uses any oil. its the high revving that eats the oil, the occasional kick downs thru the gears hardly uses any oil. its the sustained high revving especially long runs where the oil gets very hot, thats when the car uses oil. to give u an idea there is a mountain pass i use regularly and on the up hill run i sometimes have the engine over 5000rpms for over 5 min.

Here's a post i found ( http://forums.noria.com/eve/forums/a...5/m/9231082891)
"If you go with STP use the red 4 cylinder stuff. About 1800 ppm zinc and phos. It's a lot thinner than the other. I rather would recommend Valvoline Synpower Oil Treatment, 15 oz, which has about 1700 ppm z and p and moly boron and other goodies. Very nice stuff.

Big lots was selling CD2 High Perf Oil Boost which has about 4800 ppm z and p. Also CD2 75K oil add which has about 4000 ppm z and p. There are others if youwant to test them, including some stuff in round quart size by stp and fram.

GM EOS is around 8000 ppm z and p.
Modern oil about 800 ppm z and p. SL was around 1000 ppm. SH IIRC around 1200 ppm."

and here are links for those who like to read:
http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html
oils_and_zddp.pdf

AMS Performance

I've never had an AMG motor burn oil... if you are going through lots of oil there may be a problem. Even after 5k, virtually zero oil loss.

jayrasheed

dunno man my engine only has 123k km on it and the owner manual says i should see some oil usage when pushing the engine. Sofar the amount is only small so i am fine with it.
I do think having some oil on the cyl walls is a good thing for the rings and walls especially when the plugs come out clean at the end of their life.

But thats me and i might be wrong with my logic.