appatula

Hello all,
I will soon be losing my AMG card to either a C36 or C43. I originally assumed that the V8 would guzzle gas compared to the smaller I6, however, after doing some research here on the forums the average combined MPG of BOTH cars seem to be within 20MPG? Am I going crazy or is this generally correct? I have a 1986 300E right now and I'm averaging 18-19.5MPG and find the AMG MPG numbers puzzling, but very very exciting! I also would like to extend this post to address the difference between the cost of maintenance, reliability, and parts cost between the two. (C36 & C43) Thanks in advance!

Bah! I spelled mileage wrong!

steve s

i generally get less than 300 miles on a full tank. as u noted, doesn't seem to be a significant mpg difference between the 3.6L and 4.3L.

as far as problems, these are what appears to be commonly reported here on the web.
seems as tho the head gasket and engine wiring harness are two commonly replaced items on the c36. the 5-sp tranny seems to be a common weakness in the c43. again, the low volume of either cars makes it difficult to get a good sampling.

appatula

Thanks for clearing up the MPG fog Steve!

I come from the "bulletproof" M103 perspective, out of the 3.6M104 (Which I am familiar with) and the V8 which powerplant seems to be the most "bulletproof"? I think the harness issues subsided after 1995 so a C43 or later model C36 should be exempt from this, however, I will surely check it out on the cars I look at.

PaulRicciardi

Earlier C36's had a 4 speed transmission while later C36s and all C43's had the 5 speed. The 5 speed offers an overdrive so you spin lower revs on the freeway thus better gas mileage. Personally I prefer the 4 speed, it's a much more solid transmission and I like how on the highway the 4 speed puts you right at the start of the C36's powerband-no need to downshift to pass, just give it a little gas.

The M104 engine in the C36's are pretty bulletproof just like the M103 in your 300E. Both the M103 and early M104 had some head gasket problems, though I will say that the head gasket on my '95 C36 is in much better shape than the head gasket on my 300E was. Most earlier C36's have issues with the wiring harness. Similarly most C43's and some later C36s have issues with the 5 speed transmissions.

I guess it's a toss up-do you want to fix the head gasket and wiring harness or the transmission?

I get about 15mpg around town, and about 25ish on the highway which is surprisingly close to what I got in my 300E. I think either way you go you will be happy with the car.

Personally, part of why I wanted a 36 over a 43 was because I loved the character of the inline six engine in my 300E and wanted another I6 engine. I will say this, however. While the C36 and 300E engines are similar, the 12v M103 in most 300E's is definitely smoother. It's a more linear power that just builds through the rev range. The DOHC 24v M104's (like in the C36) have two distinct personalities. At normal revs (say under 3500 RPMs) they are pretty docile engines with adequate torque to scoot you around. But at about 4,000 RPMs they become shrieking, wailing, beasts willing to pull the car to triple digit speeds quite easily. Personally I like that duality, though the linear smoothness of the 12v M103 is nice too.
Good luck!

appatula

Paul that was a wonderful post! It makes me a bit sad that I will be selling the 300 soon after I introduce the W202 AMG. I too love the unique soul of the inline six, such a wonderful engine on the highway! My M103 is showing signs of headgasket failure torwards the rear cyl on the exhaust manifold side. I was planning on DIY refurbing the head and valve stem seals but it runs like a top, burns minimal oil, and I'm selling it soon. I would feel comfortable changing out a headgasket on the M104 I6, not so much on a V8. The main concern is looking for a early C36 with a new wiring harness, as I know the harness for the later W124's are close to, if not over $1k. I suppose I am edging over to the C36 side, however, it seems as if the C43's are a bit cheaper over on craigslist so I'm still on the fence. What exactly are the transmission issues related to the 5pd transmissions? Repair/Parts expensive? Thanks!

BenzMaster19

That was a great post Paul! and I too love the Inline 6's, its hard to explain but they just have so much character its like no other car i have ever driven! (and i've driven a lot) I have a later model '96 C36 with the 4-speed and the upgraded Wiring harness from the factory. If you were to look for a C36 try and pick up a '96 model, the wiring harness should be solved already from the factory and you still have the bulletproof 4-speed aswell, with the updated interior. Keep in mind performace wise both the C43 and C36's are virtually the exact same, its just what you want in the character of the engine/car and the history of the engine/car aswell. Let us know on what you decide on, and good luck!

jayrasheed

Yup before i got my 1995 C36 i had the choice and chance to drive both eh 36 and a 1998 43, i simply didnt like how the 43 felt on the road. its not soft, on the contrary i think it might be stiffer at the front than a 36 or maybe its just the lighter v8. It might even under steer slightly less than a 36. But something abt the 36 engine and sound that is just captivating, the way it can burn rubber from as low as 1500RPM and still rev all the way to 6900 RPM. Over 4000RPM the engine sounds sharp and purposeful and so is the power it delivers.

Dont forget the M104 3.6 delivers almost 220Lbft @ 1550 and the full 280LBft from 4000 to 4700 Rpm, so the engine has a V8 feel to it low down.

You can see my car and hear it in 2 vids i uploaded to my youtube chan.

trinitony

Hmmm...all this talk about C36's.... Guess I'll have to drive one.

jayrasheed

I know the 43 has better seats, and newer feel to the dash and all, but the 36 on the road feels real special. the only things missing are the LSD and manual box.
Its the closest thing to the w201 2.5-16 EVO2 and that was a special car.

But make sure u sample a tight car,

appatula

Jay, thanks for the kind words. I suppose I am sold on the C36 as afterall, comming from a M103, I should be right at home when it comes to repairs on the M104. As you all should know, comming from the W124 world I will need a "Special" car, one that has genuine soul to it. I can tell by way you fellas describe this car that is it very well indeed another "special" car. It seems as if there are fewer C36's around right now so I will just have to wait and see what comes up over the winter. I will pay attention to the wiring harness (any key places to look for cracked insulation etc?) , smooth tranny shifts, and check for oil/coolant mix as well as any visible leaks comming from the block. I'm pretty well versed on bushings ( I must be a Mercedes owner!! ) and will take a peek at the motor mounts and control arm bushings. Any other specific things I should pay attention to for a pre 1997 (non 5speed) C36? Should I shy away from high milage examples or consider them due to that fact that I can tackle a garage bound headgasket job in a weekend or two. Thanks again guys!

appatula

Ohh and BTW, I've seen all of your videos....multiple times. Your garage is nothing but stunning! Thou the 500E is the true MB centerpiece, ever planning on picking one up?

jayrasheed

true abt the E500 but bit strapped for cash now and there arent many clean ones left here to be sold.
We cant import any car older than 8 yrs, so that means i cant buy a clean one abroad.
As for the AMG well drive both the 36 & 43. Before make up ur mind but if its the 36 then look for cracked
wires in the harness, gearbox should be smooth but no slip on WOT.
After a while go for the W208 front solid bushings for a better feel to the road.

PaulRicciardi

You seem to know most of the places to look. I don't know what to tell you about the wiring harness as far as diagnostics go-my car had its harness replaced about a year before I bought it. I believe the professional install was 1600 dollars (ish).

As far as mileage goes, don't be afraid of some miles, these cars are built like brick **** houses. I know quite a few people on the forum have 100,000+ mile cars, I'm one of them. She's sitting at 129,9972 as of last night, still pulls hard, no major problems. Though I will say I have a 2 inch binder full of maintenance records from the first day of this car's existence.

You may want to check the gas gauge to make sure it isn't "funny" or doing a little dance up and down. My fuel return senders on my car were bad so the fuel needle would move up and down throughout the gauge randomly. Sometimes you would turn the car on and it would read full, sometimes read empty, sometimes read somewhere in between. I've heard that's a somewhat common problem with all W202 cars. It's about 230 dollars for parts, fixing them involves dropping the gas tank out and installing the new ones. About a 2 and half hour job.

v0ac

hehe yeah..guess i'll have to try a C36 myself.
i had choice betweem c36 and c43...took over c43 cause I like more the inside, brutal v8 and the bodykit etc.

but my friend drove my car, and a c36..said mine felt way more powerful,
and c36 more like a regular c280 , touche faster...is it true? I don't know!


anyways, both awesome cars

jayrasheed

well i have driven both and they are very close man, the 36 ironic as it is takes off harder than the v8 but that shows more pull over the 120mph mark.

On the road the 36 feels more at edge maybe due to the sound track.
The 36 can be slow if the harness is on its way out or if the cam gear is not working. Oh and that overload switch in the auto box can cause it to retard and lose power if it stops working like its ment to be or so i heard.
Other than that the cars are real tight to eachother on the road. The 36 has the longer gearing second on the 4speeder is almost 81 mph @ 6900 and third is a true 125mph

appatula

You said it well! My 300E has over 200K . I will be looking for the lowest mileage C36 I can get for a decent price, milewise most seem to be in that 100-120K range. The 300E has been a memorable car and I can see myself buying a pristine example down the road (500E . When I bought mine it was junkyard worthy, I repainted it, bushings galore, fuel injectors, guibos, steering box, blower motor and regulator, CC unit, wires, dist caps, rotors, ball joints, wheel bearings, never got the sunroof guide tube out, rear susension links, Bilstien HD's all around, the REPAIR list goes ON AND ON, then cosemetics were another fun moneypit! I've learned so much working on this car but I'm tired of laying in the driveway to fix a bushing, or figure out where a weird noise is comming from at midnight so I can drive to work/school the next day. I suppose those are little things, but I'm looking for perfection and I have come to realize that the quirks are just part of the W124's allure unfortunatley. On a pt college student budget I need something a bit newer, nicer, dare I say fast, and something that I can work on (but only half as much as the W124). I'm used to **** poor gas mileage, and I love working on these cars, I guess it was destined to be?


Ohh and before I leave off, does the gas needle bounce around if you accelerate suddenly? Does it look like its a bad intermittant electrical connection?......I have had this problem on the 300E for some time now .

appatula

I've owned a C280, a 1999 Sport to be exact. It's not a fast car by any means, I'd put my 1986 300E in front of my C280 up to 60mph.

C280 0-60mph is above 8 seconds, the C36 does that in under 6 seconds. I suspect you're friend has very bad "seat of pants" judgement.

v0ac

no he does not lol,
and IMO depends on the condition of both cars...
I kept my c43 like new, put 10 000$ down in maintenance to change everything so I know where my amgs are.
some call me crazy, I dont mind



I do think is a matter of what you like the most..and will always says it's '' better ''... we could argue for years.
just keep your w202 clean, and you will have respect

but C43 owners will agree with me...this car still impress by quality of built & how it can kick you back in your seat.

soon to be a C55 anyways... I don't drive her much, she's too low for canada's street

steve s

here's a low mileage one..

autotrader C36

however.. it said 27k miles a few days ago, now it's 22k miles??

appatula

A beaut for sure! Michigan is a bit of a trek from Connecticut, hoping luck will play out and I'll find something close from a private party in good condition.

appatula

Just for the books, although I do respect your opinion, the C36 would have to be in notoriously horrid running condition. I've read numbers between 8-10 seconds for a C280's 0-60 time, a decent C36 can cut those numbers, almost in half! Something had to be seriously wrong with that C36 if it was even nearly comparable to the C280. I loved my C280, it handled great, saved my life, but was NOT a fast car, I repeat NOT.
I agree with you, I may end up being impatient and going for the C43, we will see.


I walked away! .....after I woke up

v0ac

Wow! that is one smashed 202,
happy you survive bro!

hehe I did not say c280 is as fast...said it felt like. anyways, I did not drive both, so I should shut up :P


Indeed C43 won't disappoint you!!

jayrasheed

man plz tell us how that car was crushed like this, i mean i saw an old w126 that dropped 20m head first
rolled 8 times and the roof didnt buckle at all
ur lucky man to live thru that crash
drive safe.
I need to know if the w202 is safe or should i sell so give us details on how that crash happpened
thnx
ill post pics of that s class in a bit

BenzMaster19

BOTH the C43 and C36's are in the mid-range to higher 5 seconds. The C280 is 8 dam seconds! How can you compare a C280 with 2 AMG's!?? I have BOTH a C36 AND a C280, and the C280 is NOTHINGGGG compared to the C36. I repeat NOTHING. If you blindfolded me and made me drive both cars, I would think they are 2 totally different cars completly... Which technically they actually are anyways. Take it from a guy that owns both cars... :thumbsup:

jayrasheed

Just sold the Old Lady the 1983 W126 500SEL to a guy who had carshed his 83 500EL when he flew of the side of the road at 60mph.
The car dropped some 20M before it hit nose first then it solled over at least 8 times a further 30m down the cliff side. the car rested on its roof, paramedics had to tie the guy by the leg and drag him 12M before they could get to him and lift him off to the hospi.

pics below are of his car and it just shows you how safe a Merc is, any merc.

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